"Can you hear me now?" How is Fordham doing on its TOWARD 2016 strategic plan?

[B2Bomber]

http://www.correal.net/fu/toward%202016.pdf

The only comments I could see where there was an "update" were submitted in 2005.     Has anyone updated the progress on the strategic plan lately?   If so, where?

How are we doing?     

They wanted to reach an incoming class SAT I average of 1350 by 2016.   Are we on track?   

Some progress has been made on facilities.     Some progress has been made on recruiting outstanding faculty.   

But it seems to me we are slipping in many categories and we are NOT on track.

Not academically and not in athletics to be sure.  In fact, if you read the objectives about bringing basketball up to national prominence, its laughable.    They still have Grank.   They hired DW and he has been a dismal failure.   

They have done nothing about RHG.     Our athletic facilities are a laughing stock.

Are they attracting and RETAINING top student (academic) talent?   Are they supporting those students in top honors programs as the strategic plan specifically requires?     

Where are the scholarship funds being spent and on whom?   

Have they reached geographic diversity yet, as required by the strategic plan?  No.  Not even close.   (Its an integral part of the Toward 2016 plan for national prominence.)

The plan is developing cobwebs.  Somebody better dust it off and get cracking.   

[fordhamramfan08]

http://www.correal.net/fu/toward%202016.pdf

The only comments I could see where there was an "update" were submitted in 2005.     Has anyone updated the progress on the strategic plan lately?   If so, where?

How are we doing?     

They wanted to reach an incoming class SAT I average of 1350 by 2016.   Are we on track?   

Some progress has been made on facilities.     Some progress has been made on recruiting outstanding faculty.   

But it seems to me we are slipping in many categories and we are NOT on track.

Not academically and not in athletics to be sure.  In fact, if you read the objectives about bringing basketball up to national prominence, its laughable.    They still have Grank.   They hired DW and he has been a dismal failure.   

They have done nothing about RHG.     Our athletic facilities are a laughing stock.

Are they attracting and RETAINING top student (academic) talent?   Are they supporting those students in top honors programs as the strategic plan specifically requires?     

Where are the scholarship funds being spent and on whom?   

Have they reached geographic diversity yet, as required by the strategic plan?  No.  Not even close.   (Its an integral part of the Toward 2016 plan for national prominence.)

The plan is developing cobwebs.  Somebody better dust it off and get cracking.   

Their SAT has nearly increase 50 points over the last 5 years and now stands at 1240. We had students from 40 states in the class of 2013, and we are getting an increased amounts of students particularly from states like California. International students are increasing every year. This was the 18th admissions cycle in a row that Fordham has set a new high in applications (24,464 applications which was a 3% increase from last year), pretty good considering the economy. This incoming class also consisted of a record 88 National Merit-level scholars. Pretty good if you ask me? I think these numbers used to in the teens 5+ years back. We are investing a lot of money in faculty, which is imperative in rankings for a reputable national university. Each endowed faculty chair costs $2 million, and we are trying to get as many as we can.


Fordham has made a lot of progress since the inception of the strategic plan. You have to understand that progress is not made overnight; it's a process, and takes time. Do I think we can meet ALL the goals by 2016? Not very likely. But I can guarantee you we will be in a MUCH better position than we were in early 200. The recession is a big reason why 2016 may have to slow down by a few years. Father McShane has said that we will have to revisit some of the goals and make some changes. The recession has  affected our endowment (since we lost money in investments), ability to fund raise, and attract more students (which is why the acceptance rate shot up to 49% this year and our yield was so low, that our incoming class consisted of less students than two years ago in which the acceptance rate was 42%). Clearly, this recession has affected us, just like any other middle tier school in the country.

However, some positives: we were able to raise a record $72 million last year in fund-raising (which would have been higher had the economy been alright). We have raised $300 million out of the intended $500 million and are on schedule in meeting that goal. With the economy improving, we will see more and more people writing the big checks. You have to understand that a school like Fordham has limited resources and it does everything it can with those resources. You cannot expect tons of money to flow into athletics when there are more pressing needs at the moment like a need to recruit better student body, teachers, and better facilities (dorms, classrooms, student center, etc).

We are not slipping in any of the categories. Each year, Fordham gets to say that this class is the brightest and most talented in its history (our SAT average went up by like 20 points this year). So clearly, statistics go up each year. It is evident that Fordham has increased its marketing efforts/PR and more and more households are starting to hear about Fordham. We get nearly 25,000 applications a year now and that number keeps increasing each year. Once we have the money and better infrastructure, we can get our SAT avg to 1300, but remember it's not easy. I don't think you can name any other school in the country that is making drastic changes like this....changing a safety school that once had a 1100ish SAT average to a reach school that will soon have an SAT average of 1300. Just remain patient and give it some time.

You can get some info here: http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resources/enewsroom/inside_fordham/october_26_2009/news/father_mcshane_cites_73431.asp

[Stringer Bell]

It was an absurd goal to set.  Instead of concentrating on being the best Catholic school in the country, how about we just focus on being the best possible Fordham we can be.  There's a lot to be proud of already, but there's still plenty of room for growth. 

[fordhamramfan08]

It was an absurd goal to set.  Instead of concentrating on being the best Catholic school in the country, how about we just focus on being the best possible Fordham we can be.  There's a lot to be proud of already, but there's still plenty of room for growth. 

Yea, I agree. It was just to hype up the campaign. I mean Fordham can be a very good school but it does itself a disservice by setting absurd and unreachable goals like that. Georgetown and Boston College are in a class of its own and it takes decades and centuries to establish what they have. But we can definitely be a very good school and a respectable one, creating our own image and identity ("Jesuit School of NY"). We do not have to be in the shadows of those two schools.

[fordhamramfan08]

If by 2016, Fordham can become a selective school (1300 avg SAT, 35% acceptance rate) and a top 40-50 school, I think that in itself will be an accomplishment. Fordham just needs to get in a different league and continue to get away from the image of a safety school, which it has been doing over the last few years. If by 2016, we can make prospective students scratch their heads and make them think twice, when picking between Fordham and a school like NYU, then I think we would have realized our goals.

[John]

Yea, I agree. It was just to hype up the campaign. I mean Fordham can be a very good school but it does itself a disservice by setting absurd and unreachable goals like that. Georgetown and Boston College are in a class of its own and it takes decades and centuries to establish what they have. But we can definitely be a very good school and a respectable one, creating our own image and identity ("Jesuit School of NY"). We do not have to be in the shadows of those two schools.

Fordham IS a very good school, and it's a rare goal that should be viewed as "unreachable". When I was in college, Boston College was de facto bankrupt. So was NYU. They both pulled themselves off the mat pretty nicely, no? BC did it by rallying the alumni, and their sporting success, in both basketball and football, helped a lot. As a result, when they had the chance to acquire lots of land near their campus from the Boston Archdiocese recently, they were able to just write the check. NYU did it by retrenching, dumping a Bronx satellite campus, selling the heck out of their NYC location, and adding a lot of top faculty. The two schools followed different paths to their current success.

Fortunately, Fordham isn't bankrupt. Our challenge resembles those of both of the aforementioned schools, as we must deal with a Manhattan campus, like NYU, and a just-outside of downtown residential campus like BC's.  We need to build some new academic buildings (we've not built any in 40 years!!). Unfortunately, we've yet to generate the athletic buzz BC did (which is why our lack of success in hoops should not be tolerated). The answer is to invest in QUALITY, and to make sure the rest of the world knows you've made the investment. We also need to study our location and look at our strengths. Law is one evident strength. The GBA is another, but has been disappointing, in part due to lack of a separate facility to give it an identity. Programs in drama, the arts, marketing and media are other area where we can (and likely already do) outstrip Georgetown and BC.

The recession hurts, but at least there's a plan, and at least there are goals in mind.

[ramrayII]

"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

This is a quote by a famous Fordham alum: Vince Lombardi and is very apropos here.

I understand your frustration, B2bomber, but I think McShane is doing the best he can given what he has.  The school has been progressing carefully and slowly in many areas, compare then to now:

-When I was an undergrad, most of the kids (if not all) were from the tri-state area. People came to Fordham who didn't get into BC, GT or ND and in most cases Villanova and HC!  To many folks, Fordham was barely better than Iona, Seton Hall or St. John's.

- My daughter is now a freshman.  She turned down Scranton, Rutgers, Marist, Villanova and Lehigh and she, as did her many peers, saw Fordham in the same level as many schools once considered better. Her two roomates are from California, who also came to Fordham over schools like UCLA, San Diego, Santa Clara, Peperdine etc.  I have meet parents from Arizona, Maine, Washington and New Mexico on move-in day!  My kid has befriended exchange students from Spain and Sweden who have said Fordham has a strong reputation among the best schools known in the US.  SATs are way up.   13 Fulbright scholars puts us at the top of all the fine schools in the Patriot League and in the same company as the ivies. NO ONE in their right mind would equate Fordham to Iona, Seton Hall or St. John's academically (except perhaps kids from Iona, Seton Hall or St. John's)  .

So our alma mater has come a long way... and still has a long way to go.

But we have 2 things working against us: The Bronx and low alumni support.  I would add athletics, but periodic good years in most sports is not as pressing.   We can't do anything about the Bronx location and lose out to the campuses of ND, BC and GT.  So, work on making the Manhattan location better and  McShane is doing just that.  What will make Fordham grow faster is alumni support, which has gotten much better under McShane's tenure, lags way behind the kind of giving at the big 3 Catholic schools.

Will we ever be the best Catholic school?  I don't think we can surpass the big three, for as we raise money, they raise more and have huge endowments we can only deam of matching.  BUT I think McShane has set a great goal: we can sure as hell try, and anything less would mean less effort.  A new science building is in for the near future once Lincloln Center is well underway and all the new dorms are done.   All measured, pragmatic and realistic steps.  Small steps people get impatient over, we want great leaps..but at what cost?
-Would we like to see new buildings? Sure, but where do we build them with Rose Hill running out of space? 
-Would we like to see a new gym and a 16,000 seat football field? Yes!, but let's get the fan base and consistent wins first.
-Would we like to have a new medical school? Of course!  but lets not rush into somethong that may lose millions a year, like the NY Medical Collage situation (and the losses seen at GT Medical).  Perhaps another situation may present itself in the future as a great one did for Hofstra.

We may never be like #20 Notre Dame, #23 GT or #34 BC, but while they have stayed at those spots for the most part, over the last 5 years we have been moving up, stagnating only this year.  We will continue to move up and I have seen the progress. At the very least we can only get better if we keep striving to be the best.

[DamnRam]

I'm a big believer in accelerating feedback loops - success begets and reinforces success and does so at an increasing rate (and failure begets and reinforces failure in a similar fashion).  My sense is that Fordham is finally enjoying the updraft from the many (non-athletic) improvements it has put into place over the past two decades.  The reality at Fordham is very different than it was back when they embarked on the plan to transform into a national university, and now that they are there it's time to really accelerate.

[rambacker]

One setback has been with the sale of the two land parcels at Lincoln Center, the sale of which is intended to pay for the new campus center and recreation center at Rose Hill.  We had two buyers lined up going into the economic downturn, but because of the uncertain market both of these entities have backed off.  Each parcel was to be sold for $150 Million for a total of $300,000 Million in revenue.  Fordham is now in discussions with a major bank to provide funding for the projects.  Hope this doesn't cause more delays.

[B2Bomber]

Please don't "misunderestimate" (to borrow a "Bush-ism" for comic relief) my comments.   I am not denigrating or ignoring the many improvements and rising profile for Fordham the last several years.   Nor Fr. McShane's tireless efforts to push (pull?) Fordham into the top ranks of national universities (top 50 goal) and top tier among Catholic and Jesuit universities.   On many levels we can not only compete with but best Georgetown and BC and HC academically.....certainly from depth of programs and faculty credentials.    (Though Georgetown will always have that DC panache with people like Clinton and Albright teaching and/or graduating from there.)     Our SAT scores are rising nicely and that takes a lot of maneuvering and sometimes painful admissions decisions, risking the annoyance of some formerly "sure thing" local Catholic schools who can no longer count on admitting handfuls of students each year to Fordham.     

But there are continued frustrations, notably with athletics, which play an important role in the public perception of our school and its ability to fulfill the promise of the 2016 plan.    To become a truly national university you must achieve a national reputation and shed the image of a local school...and a safety school at that.     Fordham could fill each incoming class with kids from local catholic high schools, many of whom are legitimate scholars.    But in doing so, it would revert to a regional catholic college and risk slipping down the ladder.   

Nor are the schools perceived to be just at our heels standing still.   St. Joe's, Marquette, Saint Louis University, etc are also trying to become more prominent national universities, particularly the latter two who are ranked in the USNWR national university category.    We cannot sit on our laurels and develop a lazy attitude of overconfidence on recent successes.

All around the country private schools are licking their wounds from last year's financial meltdown and the effects upon their endowments.    Many are examining the now "critical status" of the student/parent applicants with respect to the cost of attending Fordham, as our tuition is among the highest in the country.   Several Jesuit colleges have tuition and total costs which are at least 10,000 a year cheaper.   How can Fordham attract students who perhaps need less financial assistance, but then who look for scholarships?    "The Discount Rate" at Fordham is being lowered by design, from a high of 37% before the 2016 plan to somewhere in the high 20's.    That means fewer scholarship or grant dollars going out the door to students.    Many scholarships at Fordham are highly restrictive-both geographically to New York state residents and/or specific ethnic qualifications.     That means kids from the West, Midwest and South will be shut out.    Kids with outstanding grades and SAT scores (like 3.8gpa and 1340 SATs) won't get the scholarship money.   Its presently going to kids with higher GPA's and a minimum of 1400 SAT's, unless you are black or hispanic, or get a scholarship which is restricted to a certain local catholic school or parish.   

So who from Topeka Kansas (the precise middle of our nation for rhetorical argument) can afford Fordham's now 50k a year price tag if they don't have a 1400 SAT, but are otherwise highly qualified with say...a 1320 SAT?   It can get very dicey on both sides of the fence.     Know many parents (unless they have one kid) who have stuffed away 200k for their child's college education?     If they make less than 100k a year (most of the country is in that category, more than 90% of people have incomes below that level), you can forgettaboutit!   

Then Fordham has this "diversity" goal....of attaining (they have) and retaining it at least 25% of the student body.   Nearly 100% of THOSE students have financial needs of almost 100% funding from Fordham.   Very few of them come from families with high incomes who can afford Fordham, let alone have any money set aside for education.    Even if they have a lovely SAT of 1250 and a gpa of 3.7.....that poses a problem for Fordham in attracting these minorities, but not giving any money to middle class white kids with the same or better stats.   

So how does Fordham attract the best students without having to fund all them on scholarship?    Its a conundrum.   

Harvard, Princeton, Yale etc do it because their endowments are so huge, even after last years debacle, they can afford to offer kids with family incomes below 160k a year essentially a full ride on grant money (financial aid, not scholarship money as the Ivy League basically doesn't give academic scholarships to undergraduates...everyone is brilliant.  They only give scholarships to athletes.)    Vanderbilt and Davidson promise the same thing as do many other colleges, but Fordham simply doesn't have the endowment income to do that.     

Do we build nice new buildings?  Or do we fund students in need?   Do we build a new arena and stadium or attract better students and faculty with scholarships and fellowships?      Simply making separate campaigns isn't the answer.    That is an accounting gimmick.    (Capital campaign for buildings and annual fund for scholarship/grant money).     Should all the money go into the general discretionary fund?    Or is that risky?     Floating bonds for construction projects?

Just thinking out loud.     
 

[B2Bomber]

rambacker:

I thought that the Lincoln Center improvements were being funded from the Capital Campaign, not from land sales?

[John]

The economy has hurt fundraising, capital plans and affordability, but to quote the old sailing aphorism, "If there's no wind, row." Fr. McShane's on the right track. Will it be tough to catch those (few) Catholic universities who are rated higher than we are (BC, GT)? Yes, but the ambitiousness of the goal makes the effort even more worthy.

Random observations:

1. We've got New York City. None of those other schools do. Building dorms at LC was a genius step, and we need to put more up there. Living in NYC is a life experience that will change a young person like no other. The more we tie Rose Hill to Manhattan, in terms of activites, etc., the better. My partner's kid, raised in DC, dropped three other law school offers like a hot potato to take a spot in Fordham Law's evening division for both the rep of the school and the chance to live in Manhattan.  With NYC, there's plenty more. You get the national media (is any school's alumni more prominent there than Fordham's? Maybe not), you've got Wall Street, you get advertising, international banking, art and culture, the UN, etc. NYC has been a siren call to the young people of America and the world for years. And we've got it.

2. We're not hitting on all cylinders. Things would be tough enough in the current environment if Fordham were doing everything right, but we're not. BC and GT both got considerable boosts from basketball success (and football, in BC's case), which upped the percentage of alumni donating and created local and national goodwill for the schools. Improving our athletics programs can only help, not hurt. Which makes it inexcusable that Fr. McShane doesn't bring fresh new talent in with a mandate to increase the positives of intercollegiate athletics for the university as a whole.  No doubt, there are other areas where we're deficient, but they're less apparent from the outside. 

3. Avis' response to being #2 was to "try harder". We can't cede top spot to anyone. We're Fordham, and we're going to have to work harder at it.

[fordhamramfan08]

rambacker:

I thought that the Lincoln Center improvements were being funded from the Capital Campaign, not from land sales?

The projected costs for the Lincoln Center construction is $1.6 billion. The sale of the land ($300 million) was supposed to be one of the major components of bringing the project forward. Their vision is to build vertically rather than horizontally.

Rambacker, I did not hear about any discussions of a bank willing to fund. Where did you hear this? Thanks.

[fordhamramfan08]

John, a lot of money needs to be invested in order to turn an entire athletics program around. We need to take it one step at a time and first focus on getting the right student body through scholarships (which we have been doing), invest in better faculty (which we have been doing), and improving/building our infrastructure (which we are doing by building new residence halls, student center, classrooms, etc). There are successful schools like NYU, Emory, etc that have built reputation over the past decade or so focusing solely on academics, so we should follow their blueprint. So a powerhouse athletics program is not necessary to turn the school around although it doesn't hurt like you said (but we just do not have the financial resources). There are some schools like Hofstra, St. John's, etc that would be willing to invest in an athletics program at the expense of their academic reputation. Schools like B.C. and GT were able to do it because they had the means to. We just are not that financially sound to play our cards everywhere and need to take it one step at a time and remain focused on our goal of further improving our academic reputation and everything else will follow.

[fordhamramfan08]

If we can really capitalize on our wonderful Lincoln Center location and follow through with our plans, the LC campus can become the face of Fordham over time. This will help us attract students from all over the U.S. and the world. Like people below me have said, Fordham needs to realize its strengths and weaknesses, and improve on its strengths. The Law School is our gateway in terms of exposure to the university. I hope over time, we are also able to improve the image of GBA (I hope an alum steps forward with like a $50 million check for the school's naming rights) and bring it to national limelight and have it compete with the likes of Stern. I wish Sexton had been loyal and had served as our school's president over these years (things would have been so much different).