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Title: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 18, 2017, 09:24:51 am
Everybody get ready to gang up on me but I think we need to take a hard look at this season and someone needs to tell me why we are so excited and optimistic about this seasons results. We actually got worse this year which is never a good sign in a coaches second year.

Say what you want but not sure how people are grading this season as a success. Let's look at the facts..

Overall record was much worse this year. Went from 17-14 last season to 13-19 this season (not good )

Conference record Took a step back at 7-11 this year compared to 8-10 last year ( had some good wins this year vs Rhodes island etc.. but also had many embarrassing losses)

Home record was 14-5 last year compared to 8-9 this year ( terrible home season)

Non conference record 9-4 last year compared to 6-8 this year ( sooo bad)

Scoring margin this year was -3.3 compared to +2.0 ( for you math majors that's worse than last year )

Not sure how people are grading this season as A success so please tell me.

If you're going to just blame everything on injuries you better come with something to back it up such as the injuries of everyone else they played and who was hurt during which games and why you feel that was the sole reason.

Anyway let's hear it ..


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 18, 2017, 11:12:05 am
Well, it depends on your expectations and whether your perspective is short range or long-range. If you just look at the W-L, it was worse than last year's. Then again, last year's OOC schedule had more cupcakes than Entenmann's and so many home games you'd think the team had been grounded by their parents. But that was done for a reason; the program had to halt a culture of futility that had folks saying it was impossible for us to compete in the A-10, or even in D-1. Invigorated by a new coach and stellar performances from 2 seniors, we did that. I don't think before last season, many folks expected a winning record.

This year, we upped the schedule a bit, and Coach Neubauer  tried to put in his system -- half successfully. The team stats after our first dozen or so games told the story. Defensively -- something that has to be taught -- we were getting it done.  [A graphic in last nights's Marquette-South Carolina game showed Fordham as #3 in the NCAA this season in forced turnovers]. We were getting more shots than the opponent -- just not hitting them at a good enough rate. A modest improvement in shooting percentage would have led to a rather dramatic shift in the W-L.  But once JN knew he didn't have the horses, he shifted strategies (wow, a coach who doesn't think his 'system' is the ultimate in basketball, and the problem is his kids don't play it properly, and who has the guts to make a change!) and the record began improving dramatically. Yep, we had some nice conference wins, a couple of heartbreaking losses, and we were gassed at the end due to injuries, but there weren't many beatdowns coming down the stretch (a hallmark of prior Fordham teams).

If the roster stays intact, we've got 10 returning players for '17-18, each of whom has shown they can contribute something in an A-10 game. Probably around 2500 returning career points in scoring, a nice problem to have. We add Perris Hicks and hopefully a couple of decent recruits.  By itself, this season's record wasn't anything to get excited about. But if you view the season in the context of a 5-year program turnaround plan -- which I do -- we're precisely where we should be, maybe a bit ahead of schedule. Losing culture, gone. A coach who sets out to win every game. Players who believe they can do that. We're making progress.

 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 18, 2017, 11:34:46 am
Everybody get ready to gang up on me but I think we need to take a hard look at this season and someone needs to tell me why we are so excited and optimistic about this seasons results. We actually got worse this year which is never a good sign in a coaches second year.
 

This was one of the most bizarre seasons in Fordham history.
 
I would have to answer it with a non answer. The only true way to determine if this year was a success is to see how we play next year. If everyone is healthy and JC, CS, AA are all back and Slanina becomes a force at center, and Havsa continues to develop like he did and Bunting becomes that bruiser that he showed brief flashes of this season, then yes, taking a few hits this year would have been well worth it.

This year's grade is an inconclusive, its like waiting for the toxicology report........TBD


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 71 on March 18, 2017, 11:51:27 am
I think on balance it was an "ok" season. Injuries played a part, both good and bad. We lost some of Slanina's development time, but we got to see that Havsa can play.  Hawkins was a flawed positive.  AA was both brilliant and MIA at times.  Sengfelder was solid (I just wish he had made that free throw!) and Tavares was a disappointment. JC was up and down, Bunting had his moments but is limited.  I think the coaching was overall a positive, dealing with the changing cast and adapting to the practicalities of what worked.

All in all, not what we all wished for, but not a complete disaster. I think the most positive thing is the team, on the verge of completely dissolving about midseason, kept fighting and competing.  They got some W's against some strong conference teams and has given the long-suffering fan base some hope going into next season.  We still need more talent but there are some guys who now have more experience.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 18, 2017, 11:52:36 am
I'm not sure why anyone thought we wouldn't be worse this season.  We lost our 2 leading scorers and our leading rebounder and shot blocker.  We lost many games to injury, but still pulled off a number of upsets on the road.  I'm not arguing that makes this a successful season - I agree with 85 that it may be the most bizarre in my nearly 40 years of watching - but there is much to look forward to next year.

Yes, replacing Hawkins will be difficult, but not nearly as tough as replacing Rhoomes and Thomas was this year.  We will hopefully have Slanina and Hicks healthy and bring in transfers and/or recruits.  We will also have an experienced roster next year, which goes a long way in college hoops.  A lot of hurdles remain, but the arrow is pointed up, imo.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: An Old Coach on March 18, 2017, 12:37:16 pm
I'm not sure why anyone thought we wouldn't be worse this season.  We lost our 2 leading scorers and our leading rebounder and shot blocker.  We lost many games to injury, but still pulled off a number of upsets on the road.  I'm not arguing that makes this a successful season - I agree with 85 that it may be the most bizarre in my nearly 40 years of watching - but there is much to look forward to next year.

Yes, replacing Hawkins will be difficult, but not nearly as tough as replacing Rhoomes and Thomas was this year.  We will hopefully have Slanina and Hicks healthy and bring in transfers and/or recruits.  We will also have an experienced roster next year, which goes a long way in college hoops.  A lot of hurdles remain, but the arrow is pointed up, imo.

We went backward in virtually any measurable criteria.   The only feel good IMO was 2 quality wins.  Are we better than 3-4 years ago?   Yes we are.  So what?  We remain a bad program and we took a big step back with a truly (mediocre) OOC schedule.  The wait and see for a final grade is this year's recruiting class.  It has to be markedly better.  Depending on our guys to get better is great but other teams will develop their talent as well.  Coach needs to bring in better players.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 18, 2017, 01:03:38 pm
5 conference road wins was a positive.

It was a weird season that will have to play out next year if there were any benefits . To me, that's always a crap shoot on the whole rebuild thing. There is so much change from year to year with transfers and academic issues that you have to be ready each season. I don't think anyone gets a 5 year or even 4 year rebuild. It just doesnt work that way anymore.

Its a huge "if" but if everyone is back and healthy, winning records both in and OOC are the only things that will be acceptable, in my view.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 18, 2017, 01:33:09 pm
We went backward in virtually any measurable criteria.   The only feel good IMO was 2 quality wins.  Are we better than 3-4 years ago?   Yes we are.  So what?  We remain a bad program and we took a big step back with a truly (mediocre) OOC schedule.  The wait and see for a final grade is this year's recruiting class.  It has to be markedly better.  Depending on our guys to get better is great but other teams will develop their talent as well.  Coach needs to bring in better players.

Couldn't agree more for the most part. This season was surprising and weird. Totally disappointed in OOC performance and losing to a team like Sacred Heart was horrible. I was somewhat surprised how "well" we did in conference considering the OOC. But to your point yes we are more competitive in the A10. However like you I don't think you can expect to do better just because some guys are returning and they should improve.  I also am not using the injuries as an excuse. I actually thought we started playing better with a shorter bench and some of the better players getting more minutes as opposed to be shuffled in and out. I do not equate depth to quantity as some do. Some will disagree but I do not think getting Pekarek and Zarko back will help in the long run especially if they take minutes from better players. I kind of equate our situation to those of mediocre teams in the pros that win just enough and therefore they don't draft early and its hard to improve. In our case we are mediocre in the A10 league. If we ever expect to get out of the 8-12 place range its going to take a raising of the talent level in order to get there. I know its too early to predict next year's team in terms of performance but I would feel a lot better if we had a commitment or 2 at this stage from some talented players. I think JN did a great job coaching this team and getting what he could out of it, especially in the A10. but he needs to step up the recruiting. His next early signing recruit will be his first at Fordham.





Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 18, 2017, 01:42:45 pm
The recruiting issue is paramount right now.  We ate a scholarship this year.  I can understand if you couldn't get an A-10 quality player late but then you have to be in the mix for a mid year transfer or an end of last year transfer. It is definitely a concern that we got nobody mid year and nobody in early signing period. Why? Because if history repeats, we will probably lose 2 guys or more as transfers. That's the way it is these days....we need an impact recruit. .... domestic......


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 18, 2017, 01:49:54 pm
Well, it depends on your expectations and whether your perspective is short range or long-range. If you just look at the W-L, it was worse than last year's. Then again, last year's OOC schedule had more cupcakes than Entenmann's and so many home games you'd think the team had been grounded by their parents. But that was done for a reason; the program had to halt a culture of futility that had folks saying it was impossible for us to compete in the A-10, or even in D-1. Invigorated by a new coach and stellar performances from 2 seniors, we did that. I don't think before last season, many folks expected a winning record.

This year, we upped the schedule a bit, and Coach Neubauer  tried to put in his system -- half successfully. The team stats after our first dozen or so games told the story. Defensively -- something that has to be taught -- we were getting it done.  [A graphic in last nights's Marquette-South Carolina game showed Fordham as #3 in the NCAA this season in forced turnovers]. We were getting more shots than the opponent -- just not hitting them at a good enough rate. A modest improvement in shooting percentage would have led to a rather dramatic shift in the W-L.  But once JN knew he didn't have the horses, he shifted strategies (wow, a coach who doesn't think his 'system' is the ultimate in basketball, and the problem is his kids don't play it properly, and who has the guts to make a change!) and the record began improving dramatically. Yep, we had some nice conference wins, a couple of heartbreaking losses, and we were gassed at the end due to injuries, but there weren't many beatdowns coming down the stretch (a hallmark of prior Fordham teams).

If the roster stays intact, we've got 10 returning players for '17-18, each of whom has shown they can contribute something in an A-10 game. Probably around 2500 returning career points in scoring, a nice problem to have. We add Perris Hicks and hopefully a couple of decent recruits.  By itself, this season's record wasn't anything to get excited about. But if you view the season in the context of a 5-year program turnaround plan -- which I do -- we're precisely where we should be, maybe a bit ahead of schedule. Losing culture, gone. A coach who sets out to win every game. Players who believe they can do that. We're making progress.

 
3 things I totally disagree with. If last year's OOC schedule was a cupcake, this year's was not far behind. We lost 2 games to 2 teams we had no business losing to Manhattan and Sacred Heart and 2 of our wins were against NYIT and Lipscomb not to mention Rider. In the "tougher" games we didn't even compete in some like St John's and Rutgers neither of which had great talent.

In terms of the roster staying in tact, sure you can assume some players will get better but every team will expect that from their returning starters. I also don't think quantity translates to depth. Its no coincidence this team played better with a shorter bench since the better players got more time. Addition through subtraction as Peter would say.

Listen we finished 10th in the A10 and the only way we will get better and move up is the bring in better talent. Every team in the conference has players returning but where we lag is in the recruiting. So far we don't have a commitment. There are two goals here. One is establishing a foot hold to build on and yes maybe we can build on this. But at the same time we are competing against our conference opponents and they are not standing still. In fact when it comes to recruiting this year most are ahead of us. Lets see where this ends up after Spring recruiting but unless we get a couple of talented players in here no way I will be as optimistic as you are.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Richie68 on March 18, 2017, 02:10:22 pm
For the first half of the year including the OOC and the first three conference games, I feel the team was definitely subpar and a big disappointment.  I know we lost our two top scorers and had to make some adjustments but losing to some really bad teams in these games was unacceptable.  We went 6 and 10 in this weak scheduled period.

Having said that, the second half of the season after those listed above had some really enjoyable games and moments.  We went 7 and 9 in this period with a lot of injuries and missed time and played much tougher teams than the first half.  Although, this did give Ohams and Havsa a chance to play, it also meant that with a short bench our guys were pretty tired by the end of these games.  Missed free throws and stupid plays happen when you're tired. 

During this period, except for a blowout at home against Richmond, we were very competitive in losing or won our remaining games.  We went 7 and 9 in this period, not great, but we beat VCU at home and Davidson and URI on the road. 

I feel if we can get an impact transfer to replace Hawkins and Perris Hicks becomes a serviceable A-10 player, we will be better next year.  But, we have to win our OOC games.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 18, 2017, 02:16:55 pm
The title of this thread is idiotic refuting an argument no one is making.  Everyone agrees this year was a mixed bag, no one is doing cartwheels. Not surprising given the genius who started this thread.   Slanina was projected as our starting center injured his shoulder preseason.  Works his way into the lineup shows he is a skilled player only to have his season end. He is like adding a talented big recruit.  Hicks was projected as significant rotation player, he can be considered a talented recruit.  Havsa shows he can play.   Ohams progressed as the year went on.  His development is key because if he turns into a 25 minute a game player that is adding another talented player.  See how this works?.  We are not outrecruitibg the league we need to develop players to keep moving forward.  The OOC was a disaster I left this team for dead but they regrouped down the stretch and showed they can play at this level.  We beat two of the three tournament teams and had a shot to take down Dayton for the first time.  All with an admittedly short bench, primarily because of Hicks and a Slanina. No one is relying on Zarko or Pekare another statement made to refute an argument not being made.   The foundation is there, need to add shooter badly and another forward, probably two JUCOS and a freshman this year.  I am looking forward to next year and not sweating the talent evaluators.

Enjoy the tournament enjoy the summer fall will be here before we know it.  


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 18, 2017, 02:50:50 pm
We went backward in virtually any measurable criteria.   The only feel good IMO was 2 quality wins.  Are we better than 3-4 years ago?   Yes we are.  So what?  We remain a bad program and we took a big step back with a truly (mediocre) OOC schedule.  The wait and see for a final grade is this year's recruiting class.  It has to be markedly better.  Depending on our guys to get better is great but other teams will develop their talent as well.  Coach needs to bring in better players.

I don't disagree with anything you say, but the reality is that it will be a rare occurrence for us to win the recruiting game.  It can happen now and then, but by and large, we will lose to our conference foes.  The other option is to win the player development game.  Find under the radar guys and make them better players.  Coach needs to get better players, AND develop better players.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 18, 2017, 03:13:26 pm

3 things I totally disagree with. If last year's OOC schedule was a cupcake, this year's was not far behind. We lost 2 games to 2 teams we had no business losing to Manhattan and Sacred Heart and 2 of our wins were against NYIT and Lipscomb not to mention Rider. In the "tougher" games we didn't even compete in some like St John's and Rutgers neither of which had great talent.



All of the games you mentioned occurred in the early part of the year when JN was trying to play his style and finding out that, while the defensive part of it has taken root, the offensive ability was lacking. Our bigs were running around too much on defense and getting winded. Hence the losses. I agree that the Manhattan and Sacred Heart losses were awful. In Lipscomb's defense, they were a 20-win team that knocked off Missouri on the road.

But here's the thing to remember about the OOC -- if you want to play home games in the RHG, it's going to have to be against smaller conference schools. The big boys simply won't come to our place. So the key to ramping up the OOC schedule is going to be finding small conference opponents who will come for a visit and be worth playing.

As others have said, it was a strange year. Almost like we had different teams in the first and second half.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 18, 2017, 03:25:05 pm
The title of this thread and the OP's post is a straw man. I do not recall anyone saying it was a good season or a success.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Vinseiro2 on March 18, 2017, 04:09:08 pm
The recruiting issue is paramount right now.  We ate a scholarship this year.  I can understand if you couldn't get an A-10 quality player late but then you have to be in the mix for a mid year transfer or an end of last year transfer. It is definitely a concern that we got nobody mid year and nobody in early signing period. Why? Because if history repeats, we will probably lose 2 guys or more as transfers. That's the way it is these days....we need an impact recruit. .... domestic......

This is the correct answer.  As you said earlier, I think we need to take a big step forward next season.  I'm not convinced that Hicks and projected improvement from our returnees move the needle to where it needs to be, given the loss of Hawkins.  I'm also concerned about the lack of signees thus far, but there's still some time to fix that.   


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 18, 2017, 04:09:37 pm
The title of this thread and the OP's post is a straw man. I do not recall anyone saying it was a good season or a success.

Really you don't? Go back and read posts and the most recent one about grading this season as a B..


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 18, 2017, 04:46:28 pm
Then quote and respond to it.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 18, 2017, 04:54:39 pm
Really you don't? Go back and read posts and the most recent one about grading this season as a B..

Perhaps I missed them. Has to be the minority thinking that though. There are a myriad of opinions on this forum about countless topics and rarely a consensus on anything.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 18, 2017, 06:30:11 pm
Did I miss a thread or poll somewhere?  Who declared this season a success or "good?"  Stupid post.  Others make valid points, but Richie68 and Rich93 seem to be the only ones offering a reasonable evaluation of our season.  There are two types of people in this world - those who get it and those who don't.  If you can't see the progress our program is making, then ...


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RickFC77 on March 18, 2017, 08:23:14 pm
Not really certain anyone said this was a "good" season as much as the Conference portion was more surprising than expected after the OCC portion. What concerns me is whether our recruiting is keeping pace with the progress the program is making.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: floridaram94 on March 18, 2017, 09:13:14 pm
I agree with most of what people are saying.  This season showed us we have a good coach and some players with potential to compete. The big deciding factor will be the recruiting.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 18, 2017, 10:01:06 pm
Did I miss a thread or poll somewhere?  Who declared this season a success or "good?"  Stupid post.  Others make valid points, but Richie68 and Rich93 seem to be the only ones offering a reasonable evaluation of our season.  There are two types of people in this world - those who get it and those who don't.  If you can't see the progress our program is making, then ...

So tell me how being worse in almost every single measurable is progress? Please tell me.. as much "progress" as you think we are making , you realize that the rest of the A-10 is not just standing still right? Dayton, VCU , Richmond , rhodyb, Davidson oh yea they recruit also


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: drunkle on March 19, 2017, 01:44:41 am
Non-conference strength of schedule rank was 250th this year, 350th last year.  Last year only 1 team's occ sos was worse.  Sacred Heart and Manhattan losses still brutal but a young team with no parts and Chartouny down or playing injured.  Took a while to find their ID.  Then had a great run, ended with 2 heartbreakers.  But 7 wins in conference is still more than they had in any season pre Neubauer since 2007, and 15 wins in his first 2 years more than the prior 7 years combined.  Let that sink in. You averaged 2 wins a year in conference the 7 years pre Neubauer.

Btw, the team also got out scored by more last year in conference despite 1 more win (-4.8 pg last year, -4.2 this year).  Put whatever grade you want on it. The team was still much better than any Pecora team and is much better shape for next year.  Hawkins improved during the year and had some good games but he's not as hard to replace as Rhoomes, much less replacing Rhoomes and Thomas.

If healthy I expect the team to be pretty good next year but we will get a better view as the season approaches as far as late arrivals,unexpected departures etc.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: An Old Coach on March 19, 2017, 07:43:37 am
Non-conference strength of schedule rank was 250th this year, 350th last year.  Last year only 1 team's occ sos was worse.  Sacred Heart and Manhattan losses still brutal but a young team with no parts and Chartouny down or playing injured.  Took a while to find their ID.  Then had a great run, ended with 2 heartbreakers.  But 7 wins in conference is still more than they had in any season pre Neubauer since 2007, and 15 wins in his first 2 years more than the prior 7 years combined.  Let that sink in. You averaged 2 wins a year in conference the 7 years pre Neubauer.

Btw, the team also got out scored by more last year in conference despite 1 more win (-4.8 pg last year, -4.2 this year).  Put whatever grade you want on it. The team was still much better than any Pecora team and is much better shape for next year.  Hawkins improved during the year and had some good games but he's not as hard to replace as Rhoomes, much less replacing Rhoomes and Thomas.

If healthy I expect the team to be pretty good next year but we will get a better view as the season approaches as far as late arrivals,unexpected departures etc.


7-11, 13-19.. 

You are throwing out schedule rankings, injuries, young team, going from "horrific to just bad" and calling it improvement.  We're not the worst team in the A-10 anymore so that's a good thing.  Without an infusion of talent, I don't see what we have coming back as a basis for much improvement.  Every good team will work on improving their returning players.   That's not a difference maker.  Players have a ceiling on how much they can improve. We need better players for better results.  Everything else is the same "pie in the sky" we've heard for years.  Winning more games is the only improvement that matters


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: CTRAM on March 19, 2017, 07:53:01 am
To me, it comes down to the last game. Teams moving in the right direction win that game.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 19, 2017, 08:09:26 am
To me, it comes down to the last game. Teams moving in the right direction win that game.

So your analysis of the season comes down to Anderson missing a free throw?   

Improvement next year starts with the current players like Ohams and a Havsa improving because that adds players to the rotation.  Ignoring our starting center and Hicks being injured ignores facts.  They come back it is adding two more players.  that is the way good A-10 teams are built.  All three tournament teams were upperclassmen heavy because they developed their players and then supplemented with a few underclassman.  We have the foundation to have a good season next year with the addition of a couple of pieces this spring.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 19, 2017, 12:51:20 pm
So tell me how being worse in almost every single measurable is progress? Please tell me.. as much "progress" as you think we are making , you realize that the rest of the A-10 is not just standing still right? Dayton, VCU , Richmond , rhodyb, Davidson oh yea they recruit also
Dude, at the beginning of December you declared Neubauer had driven this program into the ground, and that hypothesis was summarily destroyed.  Three months later you're refuting a claim that, as far as I can tell, no one ever made.  I cited posts from Richie68 and Rich93 to rebut your most recent delusion, and we can add Drunkle's post to that list.  Two types of people in this world, Madram ...


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: LXRF on March 19, 2017, 01:06:17 pm
Did I miss a thread or poll somewhere?  Who declared this season a success or "good?"  Stupid post.  Others make valid points, but Richie68 and Rich93 seem to be the only ones offering a reasonable evaluation of our season.  There are two types of people in this world - those who get it and those who don't.  If you can't see the progress our program is making, then ...

So tell me how being worse in almost every single measurable is progress? Please tell me.. as much "progress" as you think we are making , you realize that the rest of the A-10 is not just standing still right? Dayton, VCU , Richmond , rhodyb, Davidson oh yea they recruit also

How can anyone take someone seriously if he doesn't even have the basis knowledge on using the Message Board? 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 19, 2017, 01:11:40 pm
Just a couple of numbers to throw out there.

We scored 2090 points this year, and assuming the roster stays intact, 79.1% of our scoring will be back next season. That's not typically a bad thing (and, no, don't tell me the number is to be devalued because our players stink, they don't).

In addition to 1653 points of returning scoring, other players will, if the roster stays intact, bring an additional 1,705 career points of scoring back. That would mean that next year's team brings 3,358 of career scoring into the season.

So JN won't have a "we're young", or "inexperienced" excuse next season (not that he's ever used it, but his predecessor never tired of it). We add Hicks, hopefully we add a couple more pieces. Unless the recruits of other A-10 schools have capes and an "S" on their chests, we have a chance for a major move forward in the conference.

The team can still practice until the NCAA tourney ends. Has anyone seen a post-season practice? Any of the wounded back?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 19, 2017, 02:36:50 pm
Just a couple of numbers to throw out there.

We scored 2090 points this year, and assuming the roster stays intact, 79.1% of our scoring will be back next season. That's not typically a bad thing (and, no, don't tell me the number is to be devalued because our players stink, they don't).

In addition to 1653 points of returning scoring, other players will, if the roster stays intact, bring an additional 1,705 career points of scoring back. That would mean that next year's team brings 3,358 of career scoring into the season.

So JN won't have a "we're young", or "inexperienced" excuse next season (not that he's ever used it, but his predecessor never tired of it). We add Hicks, hopefully we add a couple more pieces. Unless the recruits of other A-10 schools have capes and an "S" on their chests, we have a chance for a major move forward in the conference.

The team can still practice until the NCAA tourney ends. Has anyone seen a post-season practice? Any of the wounded back?

So let me get this straight. We finished 10th in the conference this year, so far we have no commitments and just because most of the team comes back we are going to make a major move forward? Like no one else in the conference is going to get better because of returning starters and none of their commitments are going to contribute. Not every school ahead of us or for that matter behind us is losing major players. And for some programs that do such as a Dayton or VCU you wouldn't wanna bet they reload damn quickly. When was the last time one of those schools was not near or at the top of the conference?

Want another fact to consider. Its probably more reasonable to assume based on history that most of the other programs are more likely to get recruits that impact their program the first year than we are.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 19, 2017, 02:47:59 pm
So let me get this straight. We finished 10th in the conference this year, so far we have no commitments and just because most of the team comes back we are going to make a major move forward? Like no one else in the conference is going to get better because of returning starters and none of their commitments are going to contribute. Not every school ahead of us or for that matter behind us is losing major players. And for some programs that do such as a Dayton or VCU you wouldn't wanna bet they reload damn quickly. When was the last time one of those schools was not near or at the top of the conference?

Want another fact to consider. Its probably more reasonable to assume based on history that most of the other programs are more likely to get recruits that impact their program the first year than we are.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.

Without knowing what you consider *near* the top, I will throw out these two:
2013-14: Dayton 6th
2012-13: Dayton 12th

You can keep going back from there and it is not great, but surely results we'd be ok with most years. They have a lot graduating and Miller potentially moving on.

For us, this whole thing is a building process. We are not going to out-recruit the A10, not now and not in the foreseeable future. We need to find player with potential and develop them. We need to rely on that for now. I know some feel we can recruit top athletes b/c we have landed some in the past, but most of those heralded players came with issues or baggage.

One positive I see going forward is that I feel this program has an identity finally. We play tough D and that is not expected to change. Follow that up with some better offense and we might make some noise. It's a process though.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 19, 2017, 03:01:23 pm
So let me get this straight we are now stuck with mediocrity?   We were a laughing stock two years ago so that is an improvement.  Now for the next step.  Fact: Adding Hicks and Slanina is like adding two recruits with experience.  they are the equivalent of early signees. We went 7-11 in conference without them and with Havsa/Ohams just getting their feet wet.  So yeah there is reason to optimistic we can make a jump this year, need to add offense we all know that but unlike other years whole sale changes are not needed.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 19, 2017, 03:13:17 pm
So let me get this straight. We finished 10th in the conference this year, so far we have no commitments and just because most of the team comes back we are going to make a major move forward? Like no one else in the conference is going to get better because of returning starters and none of their commitments are going to contribute. Not every school ahead of us or for that matter behind us is losing major players. And for some programs that do such as a Dayton or VCU you wouldn't wanna bet they reload damn quickly. When was the last time one of those schools was not near or at the top of the conference?

Want another fact to consider. Its probably more reasonable to assume based on history that most of the other programs are more likely to get recruits that impact their program the first year than we are.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.

Well, yeah, with a lot of returning experience on a 10th place team that might have done better but for (1) early season style-of-play issues, and (2) late season injury problems, I think we have cause to be reasonably optimistic. Lots of variables, as Ace points out. But sometimes, you just have to channel Coach Norman Dale and say "my team is on the court". Hopefully between now and next season there will be some helpful additions to that team. At Fordham, we've gotten into the habit of hoping that some miracle recruit will come through the doors and turn things around. Unless some tall kid named Chitwood is walking into JN's office and saying "I figure it's about time I started playing", that probably isn't going to happen.  And on the recent occasions when something like that did happen -- Jon Severe, then Eric Paschall -- the "savior" didn't save us. Both had wildly inefficient freshman years on losing teams (which lacked experienced players). One left, the other didn't become the "X" factor for us.  I think we're in a much better situation now, where if we did get a hot-shot newcomer, they'd learn that PT is earned, not just handed out.

The other thing I like about our returning players is that they generally have much more mental toughness than I sensed from players under prior regimes. They've been in battle against good squads and (unlike their predecessors) they won some of those battles. That is something that dearly needed to happen in this program.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: vinnys on March 19, 2017, 05:31:09 pm
 And on the recent occasions when something like that did happen -- Jon Severe, then Eric Paschall -- the "savior" didn't save us. Both had wildly inefficient freshman years on losing teams (which lacked experienced players). One left, the other didn't become the "X" factor for us.  I think we're in a much better situation now, where if we did get a hot-shot newcomer, they'd learn that PT is earned, not just handed out.


have to take issue with your "wildly inefficient freshman years" description for Severe ( A10 All Rookie selection ) and Paschall ( A10 Rookie of the Year )    deserved honors or did the Russians tamper with the voting ? 

I will take recruits of that caliber 8 days a week. hot-shot newcomers help numerous programs in the country and help attract others . I recall numerous Christ the King players at the RHG at games in Severe's frosh season. We didn't land any and JS and EP did not lift the program as hoped but you have to land that type of player with some regularity if you want to rise to top 4 in A-10. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 19, 2017, 05:43:38 pm
So let me get this straight we are now stuck with mediocrity?   We were a laughing stock two years ago so that is an improvement.  Now for the next step.  Fact: Adding Hicks and Slanina is like adding two recruits with experience.  they are the equivalent of early signees. We went 7-11 in conference without them and with Havsa/Ohams just getting their feet wet.  So yeah there is reason to optimistic we can make a jump this year, need to add offense we all know that but unlike other years whole sale changes are not needed.

My exact quote is below. I didn't say we are stuck in mediocrity. What I said is unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity which is what a lot of others have said. Big difference.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 19, 2017, 05:51:07 pm
Without knowing what you consider *near* the top, I will throw out these two:
2013-14: Dayton 6th
2012-13: Dayton 12th

You can keep going back from there and it is not great, but surely results we'd be ok with most years. They have a lot graduating and Miller potentially moving on.

For us, this whole thing is a building process. We are not going to out-recruit the A10, not now and not in the foreseeable future. We need to find player with potential and develop them. We need to rely on that for now. I know some feel we can recruit top athletes b/c we have landed some in the past, but most of those heralded players came with issues or baggage.

One positive I see going forward is that I feel this program has an identity finally. We play tough D and that is not expected to change. Follow that up with some better offense and we might make some noise. It's a process though.

Well if you want to be precise sure they were in 6th place back in 2013-14. Actually tied with UMass in 5th with a 10-6 record and 26-10 overall. SLU won the conference with a 13-3 record. Winning 26 games in a season nothing to sneeze about. in 2012-13 they only went 7-9 in the conference but 17-14 overall definitely a down year. Still consider them a consistently winning program in our conference and one that is "more often than not" close to the top.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 19, 2017, 06:03:57 pm


Like I said, I did not know what you considered "near", so thought I would provide some info since you asked when the last time was that they were not near or at the top. Had you said "more often than not" then, I likely do not reply to that part of your post.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 19, 2017, 06:10:16 pm
My exact quote is below. I didn't say we are stuck in mediocrity. What I said is unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity which is what a lot of others have said. Big difference.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.

Got it if we we don't get better we won't win more games.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 19, 2017, 06:16:47 pm
So is anybody here really saying we don't need to bring in more talent? I think there are differing opinions as to how much talent we currently have, but even if we bring in one or two guys we still need our current players to improve. Additionally, Hicks is a newcomer for all intents and purposes.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 19, 2017, 06:25:50 pm
So is anybody here really saying we don't need to bring in more talent? I think there are differing opinions as to how much talent we currently have, but even if we bring in one or two guys we still need our current players to improve. Additionally, Hicks is a newcomer for all intents and purposes.

I consider Slanina Ohams and Havsa all essentially new comers. Slanina because of injuries and getting used to the game.  Ohams and Havsa barely played until the end of the year, their development makes them essentially new players.  Not directed at you but the idea we are going to recruit our way to the top is Pecora think.  We need to develop our way to the top and add pieces around these guys to fill gaps especially on offense. 

Dayton and VCU have 4 seniors each graduating.  You don't easily replace those guys both teams are more vulnerable than they have ever been and we have a better foundation than we have had in many years.  Don't be surprised if Wade and Miller leave for P5 schools this year but even if they stay they have their work cut out for them. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 19, 2017, 06:38:32 pm
I consider Slanina Ohams and Havsa all essentially new comers. Slanina because of injuries and getting used to the game.  Ohams and Havsa barely played until the end of the year, their development makes them essentially new players.  Not directed at you but the idea we are going to recruit our way to the top is Pecora think.  We need to develop our way to the top and add pieces around these guys to fill gaps especially on offense. 

Dayton and VCU have 4 seniors each graduating.  You don't easily replace those guys both teams are more vulnerable than they have ever been and we have a better foundation than we have had in many years.  Don't be surprised if Wade and Miller leave for P5 schools this year but even if they stay they have their work cut out for them. 

Could not agree more with the recruiting. We have to build a program and you do that by developing players.

Also agree on Dayton and VCU. They might struggle either way, but if they lose their coaches things will get rocky.

Not sure I agree on Ohams and Havsa, they were freshmen and part of the group we need to improve. Half agree on Slanina since he played so little due to different injuries.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: An Old Coach on March 19, 2017, 07:09:32 pm
My exact quote is below. I didn't say we are stuck in mediocrity. What I said is unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity which is what a lot of others have said. Big difference.

I think its great we have some consistency with the roster in some cases but unless we improve the talent level we will be stuck in mediocrity in the A10.

No.  We haven't got to mediocrity yet.  That's .500 ball.  We're still not there.  I think a number of people are not realistic about where the program stands.  We're not terrible anymore.  That's a plus but we have quite a way to go.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 19, 2017, 08:36:54 pm
OK. Just to recap: this season was neither good nor a success, despite what the voices in his or her head told the original poster.  On a somewhat - but not really - related note, we need to bring in better players if the program is going to improve.  Now what about our facilities?  We need to build a new arena and convocation center, with state of the art training facilities, if we're going to compete in this conference!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 19, 2017, 08:52:18 pm
Dude, at the beginning of December you declared Neubauer had driven this program into the ground, and that hypothesis was summarily destroyed.  Three months later you're refuting a claim that, as far as I can tell, no one ever made.  I cited posts from Richie68 and Rich93 to rebut your most recent delusion, and we can add Drunkle's post to that list.  Two types of people in this world, Madram ...

Yes I did declare that after the non conference disaster , losing to Manhattan college and sacred heart. Showed some flashes in A-10 playbbutbstoll finished with a losing record in the a-10 worse than last year so what's your point?

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 20, 2017, 09:00:27 am
Yes I did declare that after the non conference disaster , losing to Manhattan college and sacred heart. Showed some flashes in A-10 playbbutbstoll finished with a losing record in the a-10 worse than last year so what's your point?

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me
No need to apologize.  My point is that you tend to make outlandish statements about the program that have no basis in reality, that are invariably corrected or refuted by other posters.  I thought I was pretty clear.  You're entitled to your opinion, but you make these statements of fact and they're usually absurd.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: kenman on March 20, 2017, 09:52:35 am
Madram, you're right. There was definitely a feeling of euphoria after our two buzzer-beater wins. Seems to me there was talk of COTY!  Then reality set in. Why some feel the necessity to attack a poster for telling it like it is speaks more about the attackers than the messenger.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: VTRAM on March 20, 2017, 09:57:33 am
So your analysis of the season comes down to Anderson missing a free throw?   

Improvement next year starts with the current players like Ohams and a Havsa improving because that adds players to the rotation.  Ignoring our starting center and Hicks being injured ignores facts.  They come back it is adding two more players.  that is the way good A-10 teams are built.  All three tournament teams were upperclassmen heavy because they developed their players and then supplemented with a few underclassman.  We have the foundation to have a good season next year with the addition of a couple of pieces this spring.

This idea that the best teams in the A-10 are built with some hot shot 1 and done recruits is nonsense. Yes things change rapidly in CBB these day but the best teams in our league have a core of upperclassmen. It takes time to build depth in a program.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 20, 2017, 10:04:23 am
we had a 10 plus page poll/thread about whether or not the program was in free fall mid season.   I hardly think that is indicative of most or even more than just a couple of posters thinking we had a good season.

This was not a good season, it was a very bizarre season, it was odd, it was inconsistent, it was frustrating, but it was not good overall.

Next year is year 3 and no free pass. This year proved why every ship is so important. Luckily we had some quality depth but we did also eat a scholarship. 

I concur that the recruiting is problematic. We held a ship and appear not even have had a sniff from a mid year transfer. We also signed nobody in early period. I think that to be in the mix to be a post season team, we need to do both of those things and continue trying to find 5th year guys.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 10:29:15 am
It is who you sign and their skill sets that matter, not when you sign them.  We had one early commit last year Tavares just so happens he turned out to be the most disappointing player during conference play.  The late signees Ohams Havsa and Slanina were the ones who showed promise.  Hawkins late signing was inconsistent but had some big games in wins. No A-10 team got a mid year transfer as far as I know.  there are not that many of them. So we wait and see what the staff comes up with to add to our foundation.

Fact: this team was a mess but pulled it together to get two top 50 wins and a top 100 win down the stretch.   That means with a depleted roster we beat several top teams in the conference and the nation. That does not make the season good but it was entertaining down the stretch, frustrating but entertaining. Also note in 15-16 we had 1 top 100 win 0 top 50 wins but we did a better job of avoiding those bad losses.   We were also a Foul shot away from getting to Friday in the A-10 tournament.

So next year we need to put it all together, year one example of no bad losses with last year's ability to win some games against top teams.  The foundation is there for that seeason to happen just need to add some offense by way of player improvement and 2 recruits. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 20, 2017, 10:33:29 am
It is who you sign and their skill sets that matter, not when you sign them.  We had one early commit last year Tavares just so happens he turned out to be the most disappointing player during conference play.  The late signees Ohams Havsa and Slanina were the ones who showed promise.  Hawkins late signing was inconsistent but had some big games in wins. No A-10 team got a mid year transfer as far as I know.  there are not that many of them. So we wait and see what the staff comes up with to add to our foundation.

Fact: this team was a mess but pulled it together to get two top 50 wins and a top 100 win down the stretch.   That means with a depleted roster we beat several top teams in the conference and the nation. That does not make the season good but it was entertaining down the stretch, frustrating but entertaining. We were also a Foul shot away from getting to Friday in the A-10 tournament.

I agree that the midseason transfer list usually leaves something to be desired and I was not impressed with the list this season, but both La Salle and St. Louis got midseason transfers this season.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18325059/2016-2017-college-basketball-transfer-list

That said, I am not sure how 85 knows we did not appear to get a sniff from anyone. Need to go to his inside knowledge more often.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 10:36:49 am
having two teams get them is a significant number I stand corrected. I am not a fan of mid year transfers.  Quitters.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 20, 2017, 10:38:27 am
Then if you guys are such fans of same, why eat a scholarship?   You have 13 ships, unless you are holding one for a mid year transfer why eat one?   

Some of the speculation at this juncture is idiotic. We have 2 guys who are coming off surgery. 2 guys who can graduate this year and go elsewhere and historically we lose at least 2 to transfer out. 
We will need to wait until the first practice to see who is on the team and how we shape up.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 20, 2017, 10:39:26 am
Madram, you're right. There was definitely a feeling of euphoria after our two buzzer-beater wins. Seems to me there was talk of COTY!  Then reality set in. Why some feel the necessity to attack a poster for telling it like it is speaks more about the attackers than the messenger.

Of course there was euphoria, and with good reason.  The team had beat 2 top 50 teams on their home floor, all while playing shorthanded.  That is not the OP's premise, though; he (she?) is arguing that too many people are claiming the season was a success even upon its completion, a claim that is fact free.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 10:41:52 am
Then if you guys are such fans of same, why eat a scholarship? 

What I am a fan of means nothing. The coach may like the idea of a mid year transfer.  Also it is not unusual to roll a scholarship to th next year to balance classes.  This year if we did not hold open a ship we would potentially only have one available to give.  So if you are not thrilled with your options you hold it open for next year.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 10:45:01 am
If you did not enjoy that run mid conference season you are a miserable loser and should cease watching college basketball.  Our team unlike many of us fans, dug deep and got some great wins.  They made basketball matter when most of us thought the season was over and showed guts.  Once again only a loser would not have enjoyed that stretch miserable loser.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 20, 2017, 10:46:52 am
Then if you guys are such fans of same, why eat a scholarship?   You have 13 ships, unless you are holding one for a mid year transfer why eat one?  

Some of the speculation at this juncture is idiotic. We have 2 guys who are coming off surgery. 2 guys who can graduate this year and go elsewhere and historically we lose at least 2 to transfer out. 
We will need to wait until the first practice to see who is on the team and how we shape up.

You don't use a scholarship just b/c you have it and feel the need to fill it. You hold it for the right player. It is not as if we were down to 8 scholarship players during the off-season and decided to hold onto one anyway.

I agree we need to wait until we see who is on the roster come September.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 20, 2017, 10:50:12 am
This is the one year I would give the coach and the team an asterisk.  Slanina, Zarko, Hicks, Pekarek and at times JC, that's too much for a program to endure in 1 year.  If in fact, Zarko and Pekarek played so poorly because they were playing injured.

I like the 5th year players.  Hopefully that trend continues. Will be interesting to see if Tavares leaves. Or more interesting, will Zarko and/or Pekarek be back and/or able to contribute? Granted they may have been injured but to an extent, I viewed it as addition by subtraction this year.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 10:53:17 am
Then if you guys are such fans of same, why eat a scholarship?   You have 13 ships, unless you are holding one for a mid year transfer why eat one?   

Some of the speculation at this juncture is idiotic. We have 2 guys who are coming off surgery. 2 guys who can graduate this year and go elsewhere and historically we lose at least 2 to transfer out. 
We will need to wait until the first practice to see who is on the team and how we shape up.

Your last paragraph cuts off a discussion which is fine because this is all speculation.  Personally I assume guys will be back for the purpose of discussion.  I understand transfers happen but we have no way of knowing who is going or staying so for this discussion I assume they will stay, not much more we can do.  However no one is counting on Zarko or Pekarek so invoking them is a red herring.  Hicks was practicing and if the red shirt rules were different would have played. We saw what Slanina can do.  We saw Ohams and Havsa.  So the opinions are educated, by no means this is a sure thing but there is evidence to support the position.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 20, 2017, 11:03:55 am
Well, it would be helpful, I think, if JN were to go on WFUV with a season-end interview and touch on some of these issues.  I assume he'll be at the Final Four in a couple of weeks, and if WFUV's got someone there covering it, that might be a good time.  Most programs seem to do more fan outreach on these types of issues. We did OK last year, but seemed to fall off this season, especially after the rocky start.  It's time to hear from the coach.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram I Am on March 20, 2017, 12:04:45 pm
Viewed solely through the prism of wins and losses, the year was disappointing.  The rocky start really impacted the season's bottom line.   However,  peeling back the onion a bit is warranted here.  Unlike any time in our history in the A10, I truly felt that we had the potential to beat any team in the conference, and our road wins were a refreshing departure from the norm.   I know the A10 was down this year, but still we saw progress.  I also feel that we have the best coach at the helm in 30 years which is a major difference maker.  JN actually makes adjustments and seems to get kids to buy in.  Its not saying much, but I am more hopeful for the future of the program than at any point since we joined the A10.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: joeb on March 20, 2017, 12:07:59 pm
Gonna be a long off season, we need baseball season to start. Go yanks!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 20, 2017, 01:11:50 pm
This is the one year I would give the coach and the team an asterisk.  Slanina, Zarko, Hicks, Pekarek and at times JC, that's too much for a program to endure in 1 year.  If in fact, Zarko and Pekarek played so poorly because they were playing injured.

I like the 5th year players.  Hopefully that trend continues. Will be interesting to see if Tavares leaves. Or more interesting, will Zarko and/or Pekarek be back and/or able to contribute? Granted they may have been injured but to an extent, I viewed it as addition by subtraction this year.

I think you make an interesting observation about Pekarek and Zarko. Some may argue the injuries hurt us but I view it as giving more playing time to Ohams and Havsa, playing time I am not sure they would have gotten otherwise. So going into next year I think there is more to look forward to with Ohams and maybe even Havsa given what we saw this past season.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: SIram on March 20, 2017, 01:48:45 pm
I agree with the thought this was a very mixed season full of more than the normal peaks and valleys of performance.

The won lost record was not good and the OOC performance still bothers me.  The conference season was better with some nice wins but did close on a low note.  The overall record could have shifted with a shot here or there and there was far less  of the feeling that we were outclassed as in past seasons.

In total the season was more difficult to characterize than in the past.  While the coaching staff turned things around in conference play they were very slow to get it going in the OOC

I thought heading into the season that losing two terrific players in Rhoomes and Thomas would be a challenge but that Hawkins would be a net positive, that proved to be correct and Hawkins did turn out to be a good player but like the coaching staff he took a while to get going. I will say that his combination of toughness, size, athleticism and ability to make a play at times is something we have been lacking at guard for a while and would love to see us recruit players of similar profile in the future

The injuries were a real problem and at the same time an opportunity.  We saw more promise in the freshman than I expected, it looks like Ohams (hopefully with adding a few more pounds of muscle) and Havsa can be players for us, in other years they would still be unknowns as sophomores. Slaninia is a bit older but looks like he can be a force and I really hope Hicks can be be as well.

Sengfelder found more of a groove this year and he is an easy player to root for, AA was terrific and maddening at the same time in most games, JC had a tough year with injuries and family concerns but he overcome his troubles for the most part. Bunting showed very well at the end after a rocky start, I hope he can continue to improve and earn time on the floor next year.

Going into next year, assuming all eligible players return, I have more confidence in the strength and depth of the roster than in many years.   There are still holes, especially with the lack of shooters, but replacing Hawkins while a challenge is less than the problem of replacing Rhoomes & Thomas

I really  like that the coaching staff has demonstrated that they can improve payers and adapt their system to fit the talent they have, they do need to recruit well but again this year's recruits did well when pressed.


I don't know what to expect next year but I do have hope and none of the abject worry that I had in seasons past

I think we are progressing but like any fan I would us to make progress twice as fast as we have


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: x6thman on March 20, 2017, 03:15:10 pm
The coaches were tasked with replacing Thomas and Rhoomes, a had a couple of injuries, lost a couple of possible contributors to transfer, and a recruit that didn't up materializing.

It took a while for our team to get its footing. The talent level still needs improvement, but I'm pleased with what we were able to do defensively. We don't have a team of freak athletes, but played effective defense with intensity and heart. At the risk of sounding like a Met fan, we're only a couple of pieces away from being a pretty good team. I'd give the team and coaches decent marks.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 20, 2017, 07:02:45 pm
No need to apologize.  My point is that you tend to make outlandish statements about the program that have no basis in reality, that are invariably corrected or refuted by other posters.  I thought I was pretty clear.  You're entitled to your opinion, but you make these statements of fact and they're usually absurd.

How is anything I said outlandish? We were a flat out joke in the non conference schedule , a complete disaster one of the worst teams in the country at that time. We turned it around a little but still finished the Season with a losing record and worse in just about every measurable. Factor in embarrassing losses to Lasalle , st Bonnie's, Richmond etc.. not sure how anything I said is that outlandish


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 20, 2017, 07:50:28 pm
How is anything I said outlandish? We were a flat out joke in the non conference schedule , a complete disaster one of the worst teams in the country at that time. We turned it around a little but still finished the Season with a losing record and worse in just about every measurable. Factor in embarrassing losses to Lasalle , st Bonnie's, Richmond etc.. not sure how anything I said is that outlandish

Then say that. But you started a thread picking on un named people which in and of itself is incredibly dumb,


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 20, 2017, 08:31:29 pm
How is anything I said outlandish? We were a flat out joke in the non conference schedule , a complete disaster one of the worst teams in the country at that time. We turned it around a little but still finished the Season with a losing record and worse in just about every measurable. Factor in embarrassing losses to Lasalle , st Bonnie's, Richmond etc.. not sure how anything I said is that outlandish
Dear God.  You give "those who don't [get it]" a bad name.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 20, 2017, 11:04:42 pm
Dayton and VCU have 4 seniors each graduating.  You don't easily replace those guys both teams are more vulnerable than they have ever been and we have a better foundation than we have had in many years.  Don't be surprised if Wade and Miller leave for P5 schools this year but even if they stay they have their work cut out for them. 

Wade to LSU.  That's one ....


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Chaka001 on March 20, 2017, 11:34:46 pm
The coaches were tasked with replacing Thomas and Rhoomes, a had a couple of injuries, lost a couple of possible contributors to transfer, and a recruit that didn't up materializing.

It took a while for our team to get its footing. The talent level still needs improvement, but I'm pleased with what we were able to do defensively. We don't have a team of freak athletes, but played effective defense with intensity and heart. At the risk of sounding like a Met fan, we're only a couple of pieces away from being a pretty good team. I'd give the team and coaches decent marks.


First off the title of this post and the tone from the poster is ridiculous.  Pecora fan?

Lots to agree with and 6thman summed it up well.  I expected this team to take a small strap back in Wins which was Not fun but expected.  Losing a big like Rhoomes and add in thomas and that is devastating when you factor in the new guys other than tavares were frosh.

I am not wasting time on stats but here is my critique.

Fist and foremost, this is a rebuild.  This is a 5 year project and should be viewed that way.  Pecora was abysmal and left the program in asked.  JN did a fine job in her 1 and confirmed he is a legitimate coach in year 2.

So what now...
1. JN needs to find talent and in bunches.  Can't afford to have misfires.  I give him somewhat of a hall pass
Is Smith and hardnett as they were late additions but to lose both (assuming they were legitimate A-10 talent hurt).  So no more mistakes.
2. If possible bye bye Zarko, you will never play.  If they could
Pick up his schooly that would be great.  In this world of transfers this could be a win win.  Would be fine if Pekarek left too.
3. Team has to get stronger and faster.  We should be deeper this year but we gotta win the loose balls and get more boards that comes from added strength and speed.  AA is the only guy who is in tip top shape.
4. Develop the players.  If JN and  Co. help the team like he did with rhoomes that would help.

Ultimately talent trumps all but I like where the program is headed.
- we are no longer the laughing stock of the league and sadly that is saying something.
- the team has more Competitive and could hang with the better teams with less talent and even knocked off a few teams we had beating.
We have a coaches who actually coaches.
- gotta close out games GW and GMU and cannot lose to lesser teams like Manhattan and Sacred Heart.  I do believe a more experienced team will win these games.  We will be more experienced next year.
Above all what will make or break JN and the program is this:
What will this team be like in year 5?
So to turn the corner we need the following to happen:
- JN find real A-10 talent, every year.
- Ohams, Slanina, Havsa and Hicks have to be solid contributors by their junior years.
- develop the talent.
* university has to make a real commitment to athletics.  Have improve facilities or middle of the pack is as far as the program can be.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 21, 2017, 08:36:58 am
Dear God.  You give "those who don't [get it]" a bad name.

Ok snowflake , keep living in your safe place where everyone gets a trophy and a hug for simply showing up. This is D1 basketball not intramurals , you are what your record says you are. There are no prizes for 10th place.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 21, 2017, 08:47:41 am
Ok snowflake , keep living in your safe place where everyone gets a trophy and a hug for simply showing up. This is D1 basketball not intramurals , you are what your record says you are. There are no prizes for 10th place.

Says the guy hiding behind a moniker.   Kaup uses his real name here, unlike you he is not cowering behind a computer.  A lot of fake tough guys in America these days.   :D


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 21, 2017, 08:53:51 am
The Mad Ram Family Court?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 21, 2017, 08:57:48 am
Says the guy hiding behind a moniker.   Kaup uses his real name here, unlike you he is not cowering behind a computer.  A lot of fake tough guys in America these days.   :D

What are you 12 years old? I only see one fake tough guy here and that's you . I'm talking sports on a fan message board not challenging anyone to a fight , grow up this isn't junior high.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 21, 2017, 09:10:13 am
Ok snowflake , keep living in your safe place where everyone gets a trophy and a hug for simply showing up. This is D1 basketball not intramurals , you are what your record says you are. There are no prizes for 10th place.

Good job moving the goalposts.  Your statement, and the one that is refuted here, is that posters were claiming this was a good season. No one, to my knowledge, is saying that.  Now your response has fallen back to "this wasn't a good season!".  Again, no one is saying it was.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: NYRam07 on March 21, 2017, 09:21:17 am
Good job moving the goalposts.  Your statement, and the one that is refuted here, is that posters were claiming this was a good season. No one, to my knowledge, is saying that.  Now your response has fallen back to "this wasn't a good season!".  Again, no one is saying it was.

he's either missing the point entirely, or cannot comprehend the points certain people are making.

We had a losing season, and we lost a lot of bad games. However, There was a stretch of basketball this season that might have been the most entertaining since 2006. We had a few very good wins and that gave a lot of people hope. Headed into the A-10 schedule, I didn't think we'd win a single game. My mid-season expectations were as low as they can possibly reach. Now, at the end of the season, I'm looking forward and seeing some positive signs. Havsa, Ohams, Slanina all appear to be good players who I expect will get better. I think Bunting will have a role on this team too. Anderson is Anderson at this point, but we all know he has the ability to win us games. JC is very good. Now lets see how we continue to build this team with the incoming recruits.

This season was not a "Success" but we can pull some positives from it and look to the future.

Others have said it, but it's worth repeating... Who said this was a "good season?" Let's not confuse "positive signs" with "good season" madram. They're two entirely different things.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 21, 2017, 09:22:31 am
What are you 12 years old? I only see one fake tough guy here and that's you . I'm talking sports on a fan message board not challenging anyone to a fight , grow up this isn't junior high.

Ok snowflake stay in your safe space hiding in anonymity while acting the part of the tough guy.   Big bad Madram breaking out the snowflake and safe space overly used trope as he hides in his own safe space behind a computer screen because he is himself a snowflake.  Take that weak crap elsewhere son.  


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Sufferam on March 21, 2017, 10:09:32 am
If possible bye bye Zarko, you will never play.  If they could
Pick up his schooly that would be great.  In this world of transfers this could be a win win.

Whether there is logic to this or not, is this comment necessary?  The kid played a role last year and seemed to give max effort at all times. That may not guarantee him a role in the future but it should earn him a little more respect on this forum. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 21, 2017, 10:12:38 am
Whether there is logic to this or not, is this comment necessary?  The kid played a role last year and seemed to give max effort at all times. That may not guarantee him a role in the future but it should earn him a little more respect on this forum. 

+1

Could not agree more.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 21, 2017, 10:22:44 am
Whether there is logic to this or not, is this comment necessary?  The kid played a role last year and seemed to give max effort at all times. That may not guarantee him a role in the future but it should earn him a little more respect on this forum. 


Kid never came on the board and complained.  Never walked out of practice.  Never was suspended.  Never left team for personal reasons.   Kid played his ass off every time stepped on the court.  He was an important part of our first winning season in a decade. He played this year through injury ended up having surgery.  If he is not on the team next year he deserves our thanks. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 21, 2017, 10:42:35 am
Zarko is 100% effort guy and perhaps, his hip was the reason he didnt play well this year.   Zarko gave us some quality minutes in Neubie's first season. Let's see how he heals up.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 21, 2017, 11:19:03 am
He's not the fastest guy in the world, but I really like Zarko for his effort and willingness to play defense. If you can rest one of your players, and sic on the opponent a guy who's going to be in his face and make him work like hell for 4-5 minutes, that's quite useful. Even if Zarko doesn't put a hard stop on his guy while he's in, he can tire him out for down the stretch. Most coaches love to have a player or two like that on a team.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 21, 2017, 02:55:30 pm
Ok snowflake stay in your safe space hiding in anonymity while acting the part of the tough guy.   Big bad Madram breaking out the snowflake and safe space overly used trope as he hides in his own safe space behind a computer screen because he is himself a snowflake.  Take that weak crap elsewhere son.  


Ok meet me at the bike rack 3pm after school and we will settle this once and for all.. Jesus settle down .. again the only person claiming to be a tough guy is you. I am simply posting non threatening messages on a sports message board and here you come all crazy


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Santa on March 21, 2017, 03:09:14 pm

Kid never came on the board and complained.  Never walked out of practice.  Never was suspended.  Never left team for personal reasons.   Kid played his ass off every time stepped on the court.  He was an important part of our first winning season in a decade. He played this year through injury ended up having surgery.  If he is not on the team next year he deserves our thanks. 


Deserves our thanks is a bit much...  He's one of the worst players on the court in recent memory.  All the things you describe above, should be a given when you get a scholarship!  If not, you better be really good (i.e. Allen Iverson)


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: x6thman on March 21, 2017, 03:13:06 pm
Deserves our thanks is a bit much...  He's one of the worst players on the court in recent memory.  All the things you describe above, should be a given when you get a scholarship!  If not, you better be really good (i.e. Allen Iverson)

Not every kid on scholarship is going to be a big time player (or has to be). I don't know why people are picking on the guy. I was impressed with his attitude and on-ball defense.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ram64 on March 21, 2017, 03:28:24 pm
Deserves our thanks is a bit much...  He's one of the worst players on the court in recent memory.  All the things you describe above, should be a given when you get a scholarship!  If not, you better be really good (i.e. Allen Iverson)

Santa leaves his usual bag of coal!!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 21, 2017, 04:39:41 pm
Deserves our thanks is a bit much...  He's one of the worst players on the court in recent memory.  All the things you describe above, should be a given when you get a scholarship!  If not, you better be really good (i.e. Allen Iverson)

Your memory is not very good which is not surprising.  Ignorance personified.  A lot of that going around lately but it is the offseason so it is to be expected.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 21, 2017, 06:36:19 pm
Hey, Zarko is going to be one of our seniors next year, and I'd like to see him team with fellow seniors Sengfelder and Anderson and his HS teammate Chartouny to do some great things. There are great players, great role players, and great locker room guys. A winning team needs all of these.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85RAM on March 21, 2017, 07:17:49 pm
Does anybody have a definitive word on Sengfelder and Anderson about returning next year??


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Chaka001 on March 21, 2017, 09:24:38 pm
agree to disagree but not in total.
I never said Zarko did not give effort, in fact I applauded his efforts as he tries hard, maybe too hard... but that proves my point further in that he is not an A-10 talent level player. he should not see more than 3 mins a agme and several have agreed with me on this point.  And Zarko fans, please don't start about the one game he had 3 3's, all of which were uncontested, woop de do. IMO opinion JN played him because 1. he had limited players, and 2. Zarko probably reminded him of himself.  People on this board wanted Smith to get minutes over Zarko and for some reason it just never happened.  Kind of a mystery.  Bottom line is Slanina, Ohams and Tavares have much more upside than Zarko.
Zarko is to slow and flawls his arms so it looks like he is an intense defender but the reality is he can't defend.  Not being mean, just being real.  I wish the kid all the best but with increased depth on this team and  having a player like Havsa who is more talented and younger, Zarko should be riding the pine.  Just saying he may be better off transferring IF playing time is his priority.

Rich93 claimed there would be more that 1 scholarship so that implies 1-2 more players would be leaving, which leaves 2-3 scholies to give.
So who would be the most logical players to leave (assuming they did)?  Answer Zarko and Pekarek


JN cannot afford to recruit players who will not contribute. 
Year 1: Hardnette and Smith.  JN buys the farm on this recruitiing class as both are gone and neither contributed.
Year 2: Hawkins, Tavares, Hicks, Ohams, Slanina, Havsa,  Too early to grade but I will say...
- Hawkins a good pick up as he had A-10 level talent and was our leading scorer.
- Tavares: has talent, but needs to get more consistent.
- Ohams, Slanina and Havsa: all showed signs that they can play at this level.  If they get stronger, faster and JN can develop them, they should be fine.

JN's career will hit a pressure point this and next year as he needs to hit home runs with recruits:
this year: in finding a star recruit to replace Hawkins.
next year: in finding 4 star recruits to replace a big graduating class. 

If he brings in 4 or5 legitimate A-10 talent players of the 5 openings he will have truly built a solid foundation for this program.
I hope JN can get it done.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 21, 2017, 11:52:07 pm

Zarko is to slow and flawls his arms so it looks like he is an intense defender but the reality is he can't defend.  Not being mean, just being real.  I wish the kid all the best but with increased depth on this team and  having a player like Havsa who is more talented and younger, Zarko should be riding the pine.  Just saying he may be better off transferring IF playing time is his priority.


Take a step back, close your eyes for a second, and refocus. Nemanja Zarkovic is a Fordham student who came here from Canada and has busted his butt on the court and in practice for 3 years. After next season, I assume he'll get his degree and become a "Fordham Man", which so many of us on the board pride ourselves on being. He was already a part of our first winning team in a decade, who knows what memories he might deliver in the coming season? You don't ship a guy off like that via transfer so some fan can get more jollies watching some other newcomer he thinks might have more upside. In college basketball, it's sometimes the guys like that who write some unforgettable memories in their senior seasons. Don't know about you, but it's moments like that that bring me back to the college game.

If you're a fan of the "bring 'em in, use 'em, ship 'em out" school of b-ball, there's a team in Lexington KY you might want to follow. Chill. Whether you believe it or not, we're poised to have a very good year in 2017-18. A lot of guys -- veterans and newbies -- are going to play a part in that. Sit back, cross your fingers, and wait for some memories to be made.  Peace.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: joesunfish on March 22, 2017, 05:59:44 am
+ 1

In addition to being a very hard worker, Zarko is smart, articulate, a self-starter and a team player. Plus, I have every reason to believe that he is a leader in the locker room.

If I were a coach, an entrepreneur or a corporate executive, I would want him on my team!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: kenman on March 22, 2017, 07:28:14 am
Thanks John and joesunfish. It's important to remind folks that we're talking about college basketball and college students at Fordham. People talk about these kids like they're free agents who have to be dumped before their bonus kicks in. Nice to hear that there's some perspective out there.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Chaka001 on March 22, 2017, 08:29:38 am
Johnny boy
Read my post...
I said IF, I repeat IF playing time is important to HIM than transferring may be a better option for him.

I was the first to throw Pecora under the bus and took lots of heat for it and guess what everyone soon echoed my sentiments.  I also stood by JN at the close of the OOC season and some were ready to hand him a pink slip.  I also was harsh on Zarko because he is not A-10 talent.  Yes it is an unpopular statement but guess what it is the truth and many feel the same way.  In fact scroll back a bit and you see fans say ok next year we have 4 guards coming back JC AA Hicks and Havsa.  What?  No mention of Zarko who is going to be a Senior. Slip of tongue, I think not.  He simply is not in the getting playing time picture.  Simply evaluating by talent (not effort, not team player , etc.), solely on talent he should not get more than 3 mins a game. As mentioned before I wish the kid all the best and I hope I am wrong, but I doubt I am and there are other s onthis board that are tree evaluators of basketball than I.

BTW, I was not the one planting the seed 1-2 would be leaving the team.



Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 22, 2017, 08:54:30 am
Thanks John and joesunfish. It's important to remind folks that we're talking about college basketball and college students at Fordham. People talk about these kids like they're free agents who have to be dumped before their bonus kicks in. Nice to hear that there's some perspective out there.


Lets not go overboard here either, countless players and overbearing parents have manipulated schools too...

This is about one player. In my view, Zarko  can help, he plays crazy defense for 10-12 minutes a game and can help lock down a guy.  He gives 100% all out effort and that is to be commended.  I think he can add value.

I dont buy into the other naive nonsense of these innocent student athletes...give me a break......Fordham plays by the rules, i think that is well established, but for every Zarko there is a Paschall, or a Hardnett, or Jared Fay or a Jake Fay or countless others who took advantage of Fordham. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 22, 2017, 08:59:47 am
Talking about players leaving and on court performance is all part of the deal.  I think given our improved talent at guard and coming off an injury Zarko will have a tough time getting minutes next year barring injury.  What I did not like was how Chaka was dismissive of Zarkos contribution to this team.  "Bye bye" indicates he did nothing while he was here and that is simply not true.  Maybe just a poor phrase.   I do believe in general people forget the role he played in our first winning season in years.  That deserves some respect.  Add in Pekarek for that matter.  15-16 was a fun year, after years of bad basketball we got to go to RHG and see an entertaining team.  Zarko and Pekarek were big parts of that season. Their contributions deserve to be recognized and not dismissed with "bye bye".


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 22, 2017, 09:16:13 am

BTW, I was not the one planting the seed 1-2 would be leaving the team.

But you are the only throwing out a name of someone who should leave.  It is unseemly at the very least.  It's fine to criticize his play, but little irritates me more than calling guys a waste of a scholarship, or telling them they should leave.  That is way beyond the parameters of criticizing someone's play.

Besides, you really think he's going to transfer before his senior year?  How often does that happen?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 22, 2017, 09:23:17 am
But you are the only throwing out a name of someone who should leave.  It is unseemly at the very least.  It's fine to criticize his play, but little irritates me more than calling guys a waste of a scholarship, or telling them they should leave.  That is way beyond the parameters of criticizing someone's play.

Besides, you really think he's going to transfer before his senior year?  How often does that happen?

Well he could get a red shirt and have 2 years.   However,  he is a gamer and he gave quality lock down minutes in the 17 win year.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 22, 2017, 09:28:53 am
Note that someone does not have to leave the school to not play anymore.  Could just be that he has a tough time getting minutes or injury prevents the player from competing.  I know Zarko loves Fordham and has no intention of going to another school.  He is recovering from a serious injury we will see how it works out.  As for my statement that a ship will open up that is based on every school having one player leave.  I can think of someone I would rather see leave than Zarko, Zarko is welcome on my team there is room for him.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 22, 2017, 10:06:04 am
Johnny boy

Completely unnecessary and antagonistic. This board would be much better without that stuff.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 22, 2017, 10:38:02 am
Johnny boy
Read my post...
I said IF, I repeat IF playing time is important to HIM than transferring may be a better option for him.

I was the first to throw Pecora under the bus and took lots of heat for it and guess what everyone soon echoed my sentiments.  I also stood by JN at the close of the OOC season and some were ready to hand him a pink slip.  I also was harsh on Zarko because he is not A-10 talent.  Yes it is an unpopular statement but guess what it is the truth and many feel the same way.  In fact scroll back a bit and you see fans say ok next year we have 4 guards coming back JC AA Hicks and Havsa.  What?  No mention of Zarko who is going to be a Senior. Slip of tongue, I think not.  He simply is not in the getting playing time picture.  Simply evaluating by talent (not effort, not team player , etc.), solely on talent he should not get more than 3 mins a game. As mentioned before I wish the kid all the best and I hope I am wrong, but I doubt I am and there are other s onthis board that are tree evaluators of basketball than I.

BTW, I was not the one planting the seed 1-2 would be leaving the team.



You say this whenever someone disagrees with you and it is not true. You were not even remotely close to the first to throw Pecora under the bus.  Vinseiro Ram71 Rambacker all said we should not hire him he could not coach.  Vinseiro then continued to post that while you and others were "on the fence". 85 started a thread fire Pecora thread year 1 or 2. Then with everyone else you got pissed off after the RMU loss.  Then there was consistent criticism of coaching by many if not all who post here with questions of do we have the players to run anything any way.  You were killed for making it personal and focusing on how much money he was making as if you were writing the checks.  Then it went on from there everyone agreeing he was not getting it done but the question was how long do you give him given our AD etc.  you and others said fire him myself and others said give him another year.   Only a few people mentioned giving JN the pink slip, congrats on being in the majority on that one.  So enough patting yourself on the back and grandiose proclamations of your savy based on an erroneous recollection of the facts.    Everyone here has said things that were proven right and wrong it does not mean what you are saying now is accurate or not. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 22, 2017, 10:50:05 am
Some comments on Zarko coming from someone not a big fan of his. Having said that under no way is it a waste of scholarship and he deserves a place on the team. If there is better talent on the team than logically his playing time should be reduced. I have always said he plays hard and gives max effort but it does not necessarily warrant him getting playing time based on that if again there is better talent available. I actually think at times his offense or lack of hurt the team more than defense. On defense I thought he was okay but got exposed by quicker guards. I also think the trapping defense exposed him more so than if he played in the zone defense employed more often this past year. The problem I had on offense was there were some games he played 15 or more minutes and his line score would be 0-1 or 0-2 with 1 assist. He disappeared at times on offense and for a team that struggles to score at times you can't withstand that level of contribution. Again however, I think this will all pan out according to the talent level and play of others on the roster. The better players have to play more.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: VTRAM on March 22, 2017, 10:56:20 am
Deserves our thanks is a bit much...  He's one of the worst players on the court in recent memory.  All the things you describe above, should be a given when you get a scholarship!  If not, you better be really good (i.e. Allen Iverson)

Pretty much one of the most ridiculous statements in a sea of them on this board. Go look at the A-10 talent thread that is pinned and get back to me.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 22, 2017, 11:16:35 am
Completely unnecessary and antagonistic. This board would be much better without that stuff.
Um, someone called me "snowflake." : (


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 22, 2017, 11:40:54 am
Zarko doesn't get prominent mention among the returning guards, because I think he's viewed as a specialist -- come in for a few minutes at a time, give the other guy hell, hit a shot here and there. Guys like that may not even be on the court at the end of the game when the man he guarded starts to fade. But they make an impact.

Someone mentioned Duane Wilson from Marquette as a possible 5th year transfer in the recruiting thread. He's a guy who went from being a 10-11 ppg scorer his first couple of years to scoring 4 ppg last season because . . . well, he got recruited over. So, do we need him next year? My view's no, not as a defensive specialist because we've got Zarko for that, and not as a scoring guard because we have two upperclass starters returning. Side by side, Wilson's more physically talented than Zarko -- he was a consensus Top 100 recruit out of HS -- but I don't think we need him because we're covered for next year on the defensive specialist front and want to develop younger guys as well.

They key to next year seems pretty clear. We need to add a couple of accurate long-range shooters, and improve our offensive efficiency. The defensive piece is in place -- we're almost always getting more shots than our opponents. Now we need to do a better job at converting those shots.



Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: John on March 22, 2017, 11:41:58 am
Completely unnecessary and antagonistic. This board would be much better without that stuff.

No offense taken. I don't think any was intended. Chaka's been posting here a long time.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: SIram on March 22, 2017, 11:54:26 am
I like Zarko for what he is, a player who tries really hard and finds ways to contribute to the team even if he is not a star

I hope that he will have time to work on his game, hopefully to improve his shooting and come back strong for his senior year

I always enjoy the reaction of the player he is guarding when they see the manic level of activity Zark has on defense, it would be great if he could stop everybody but that is not reality and he brings a nice change of pace on defense

If you understand what he is then I just don't get those who are killing him for not being a star


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 22, 2017, 01:39:47 pm
Um, someone called me "snowflake." : (

Rich93 tackled that one before I could get to it.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 22, 2017, 01:57:16 pm
No offense taken. I don't think any was intended. Chaka's been posting here a long time.

That it was taken without issue this time is not the point.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: LXRF on March 22, 2017, 02:04:05 pm
I like Zarko for what he is, a player who tries really hard and finds ways to contribute to the team even if he is not a star

 and he brings a nice change of pace on defense

If you understand what he is then I just don't get those who are killing him for not being a star

A good college team is made up of many different talents. Not everyone is a super star.  There are some with talents that go beyond the court.  From the amount of playing time Zarko got from JN, it is clear, at least to me, that JN values both Zarko's on the court abilities and the voerall effect of his hustling especially on D brings to the team.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: VTRAM on March 22, 2017, 02:11:42 pm
Um, someone called me "snowflake." : (

I am feeling very "triggered" by this thread so don't feel bad  >:D


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 22, 2017, 02:52:13 pm
Well he could get a red shirt and have 2 years.   However,  he is a gamer and he gave quality lock down minutes in the 17 win year.

Could he get a redshirt?  He played 10 or so games this year, I doubt the NCAA would grant him one, but I'm not completely clear on the latest redshirt rules.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Bay Ridge on March 22, 2017, 05:04:56 pm
I just want to comment on Zarko as a representative of the school. Before the start of every season , I think most program donors get a thank you call from a player and a request to donate for the upcoming season. Last autumn , my caller was Zarko. I can't recall the conversation verbatim but I just remember how poised , articulate , engaging , and grateful he was. I wish him well on and off the court. He's a quality young man.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: RamFan78 on March 22, 2017, 05:13:15 pm
Could he get a redshirt?  He played 10 or so games this year, I doubt the NCAA would grant him one, but I'm not completely clear on the latest redshirt rules.
I do not think so. I believe these are the rules. I think he played in 11 games this year out of 31 or roughly 35%.

To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.
The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.
The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.
The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater. [/i]


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: xtey92a on March 22, 2017, 07:37:06 pm
Santa leaves his usual bag of coal!!

If you plant them, and wait a looooooooong time, you might get a diamond.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 22, 2017, 08:16:57 pm
Rich93 tackled that one before I could get to it.

Yea he threatened to beat me up after school


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: drunkle on March 22, 2017, 09:17:18 pm
7-11, 13-19.. 

You are throwing out schedule rankings, injuries, young team, going from "horrific to just bad" and calling it improvement.  We're not the worst team in the A-10 anymore so that's a good thing.  Without an infusion of talent, I don't see what we have coming back as a basis for much improvement.  Every good team will work on improving their returning players.   That's not a difference maker.  Players have a ceiling on how much they can improve. We need better players for better results.  Everything else is the same "pie in the sky" we've heard for years.  Winning more games is the only improvement that matters

Lol, last year they won more than they had in almost a decade.  They lost the best player by far from that first in a decade team and Thomas and Severe and we're STILL better this year than any team from the prior 7 years.  Don't people get this?  The team was godawful for years.  Yes, this year was still a vast improvement and the overall trajectory is up. Useless going over it again.  Wallow if you want.  Next year will tell you more.  We will see.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Bean Ram on March 22, 2017, 09:51:33 pm
Teams have 13 scholarships. Most teams play 8 or 9 guys. The worrying about who the 12th or 13th man is ridiculous. Those should be someone with raw talent or a role player like Zarko who brings positivity to the program and brings a spark. It is mid-March, we are not getting 4 star recruits for next year. Those type of guys signed in the fall or are going to a top tier team. Fordham and JN will win by finding diamonds in the rough and developing them. Banking more on Chuba taking a big step next year than finding an immediate contributor at this late date. A two star that turns into a 3 star at this point will be fine with me to help us take the next step.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 71 on March 22, 2017, 10:19:30 pm
Zarko is a useful player. He got more minutes in his first season than his talent would predict because of circumstances. But on a mid level A10 team he merits 7 minutes, especially in JN's system. And I think you want him on the team for practice and for energy and leadership. No problem with spending a scholarship on a guy like this.
.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: NYRam07 on March 23, 2017, 07:33:56 am
Lol, last year they won more than they had in almost a decade.  They lost the best player by far from that first in a decade team and Thomas and Severe and we're STILL better this year than any team from the prior 7 years.  Don't people get this?  The team was godawful for years.  Yes, this year was still a vast improvement and the overall trajectory is up. Useless going over it again.  Wallow if you want.  Next year will tell you more.  We will see.

Please stop. Overload of common sense and logic is dangerous.  >:D


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Santa on March 23, 2017, 10:16:45 am
+ 1

In addition to being a very hard worker, Zarko is smart, articulate, a self-starter and a team player. Plus, I have every reason to believe that he is a leader in the locker room.

If I were a coach, an entrepreneur or a corporate executive, I would want him on my team!

Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Ram 83 on March 23, 2017, 11:06:38 am
Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.


For the record, we were better than .500 last year, and he averaged 18 minutes a game.  Just sayin'.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 23, 2017, 11:08:43 am
Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.


He played 18 minutes a game in our first winning season in a decade and a season in which we made the post season for the first time in 25 years.  I think he is a bit better than a CYO player and has some talent.  You on the other hand have no basketball knowledge or posting talent.   You may be a great guy and I am not saying take away your posting privileges but you should be limited to posting during the last two minutes of the year.  


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 23, 2017, 11:12:19 am
Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.


Nobody cares how anyone looks out there. He was an effective lock down defender on a 17 win team that made a post season.  What a moronic comment, he did play on a team that was over .500......... you are flat out dumb.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 23, 2017, 12:41:59 pm
Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.

How do people come up with this nonsense?!?  Will Zarko have two years left due to last season's injury or just one?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Chicago Ram on March 23, 2017, 01:03:58 pm
How do people come up with this nonsense?!?  Will Zarko have two years left due to last season's injury or just one?

Iff I'm not mistaken, I believe he is scheduled to graduate this year ( ahead of time); wonder if he will stay for  year of grad school; believe CS is in the same situation


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 71 on March 23, 2017, 01:27:41 pm
Guys...he might be a great guy, but he looks like a CYO player out there!  He has not talent of any kind.  If our team was better then .500, he would never see any playing time.  I'm not saying take away his Scholarship...but let's not act like the guy is so great.

He's lucky to be on the team!  He should be put in for the last 2 mins of blowouts.


For my money, hustle and intensity is a talent. As I said previously, there is a place on a good team for a player like this.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: CTRAM on March 23, 2017, 02:18:41 pm
For my money, hustle and intensity is a talent. As I said previously, there is a place on a good team for a player like this.

Yeah, but not in the A10.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 23, 2017, 02:57:01 pm
Yeah, but not in the A10.

My god this statement is belied by Zarko himself.  A mid pack team last year played him 18 minutes a game.  Now you want to get to the next level his minutes likely get reduced but this is complete garbage. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Scott W 86 on March 23, 2017, 03:05:08 pm
Ace.... I propose a one month moratorium on "Zark talk"   He's a decent role player, works hard, causes no problems, etc.

I realize that every single particle of dust in the RHG is fodder for obsessive over-analysis..... But this poor kid deserves a break.   More importantly, readers of these posts, could use fresher discussion..... like a full month of Pecareck talk!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: ace93 on March 23, 2017, 03:30:31 pm
Ace.... I propose a one month moratorium on "Zark talk"   He's a decent role player, works hard, causes no problems, etc.

I realize that every single particle of dust in the RHG is fodder for obsessive over-analysis..... But this poor kid deserves a break.   More importantly, readers of these posts, could use fresher discussion..... like a full month of Pecareck talk!

I agree on Zarkovic. As for the moratorium, it's a nice idea, but not one I have the capability to enforce.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Santa on March 23, 2017, 05:00:21 pm
He played 18 minutes a game in our first winning season in a decade and a season in which we made the post season for the first time in 25 years.  I think he is a bit better than a CYO player and has some talent.  You on the other hand have no basketball knowledge or posting talent.   You may be a great guy and I am not saying take away your posting privileges but you should be limited to posting during the last two minutes of the year.  

We had a loosing record in the A10 both this year and last.  We need more talent, everyone can agree on that!!  People will have to loose minutes.  A guy who is averaging 20mins and 2.7pts per game for his career seems like an obvious choice. 

I think you are the one who is lost when it comes to basketball.  We only had a winning season in 2015-2016 because we play cupcakes at home the entire out of conference and we had several seniors who finally got some coaching. 

Zarko had little to do with it.  He is a prime example of non A10 talent on the roster, and it shows in the conference standings.

We are turning this around, but he'll have to loose some minutes.  This is so obvious.  You've watched this time so long, you don't know what a good player looks like!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Rich93 on March 23, 2017, 05:20:15 pm
You said he Looks like a cyo player and has no talent which is stupid.   No talent Guys don't play 18 a game on mid pack A-10 teams.  Now crawl back under your rock.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 23, 2017, 06:08:49 pm
We had a loosing record in the A10 both this year and last.  We need more talent, everyone can agree on that!!  People will have to loose minutes.  A guy who is averaging 20mins and 2.7pts per game for his career seems like an obvious choice. 

I think you are the one who is lost when it comes to basketball.  We only had a winning season in 2015-2016 because we play cupcakes at home the entire out of conference and we had several seniors who finally got some coaching. 

Zarko had little to do with it.  He is a prime example of non A10 talent on the roster, and it shows in the conference standings.

We are turning this around, but he'll have to loose some minutes.  This is so obvious.  You've watched this time so long, you don't know what a good player looks like!
Does anyone have time to start a "Stupid Post of the Day" thread, or a poll for us to periodically vote on the dumbest comments seen on Fordhamfans.com?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 23, 2017, 07:59:36 pm
The recruiting issue is paramount right now.  We ate a scholarship this year.  I can understand if you couldn't get an A-10 quality player late but then you have to be in the mix for a mid year transfer or an end of last year transfer. It is definitely a concern that we got nobody mid year and nobody in early signing period. Why? Because if history repeats, we will probably lose 2 guys or more as transfers. That's the way it is these days....we need an impact recruit. .... domestic......

Yawn....right again


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 23, 2017, 08:18:14 pm
Does anyone have time to start a "Stupid Post of the Day" thread, or a poll for us to periodically vote on the dumbest comments seen on Fordhamfans.com?

So anyone who has anything critical to say about a tenth place team with a losing record is making stupid comments? I guess we should just come on here and praise everybody and everything , would that make you happy?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 23, 2017, 08:51:19 pm
So anyone who has anything critical to say about a tenth place team with a losing record is making stupid comments? I guess we should just come on here and praise everybody and everything , would that make you happy?
There's a not so subtle difference between critical, which at times is certainly deserved and I welcome as long as the poster knows what he or she is talking about, and flat out stupid or, worse, insulting.  The Zarko comments, and the remarks of yours that I mocked earlier, fall into the latter two categories and demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of team sports, competition and college basketball.  I summed it up for you when I posted there are two types of people then cited the well thought out replies of other posters who provided stats, well articulated perspective and, sadly, just plain old common sense to refute your claims.  Since then all you've done is talk in circles without providing any examples to support your original post.  In this case, the fact that someone thinks statistics and team accomplishments are sufficient to determine Zarko's worth at this level and his value to the team are just plain idiotic, and if people are going to make public comments like that, then they have to be prepared to get criticized themselves.  Am I still in my safe space, snowflake?


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 23, 2017, 09:24:01 pm
There's a not so subtle difference between critical, which at times is certainly deserved and I welcome as long as the poster knows what he or she is talking about, and flat out stupid or, worse, insulting.  The Zarko comments, and the remarks of yours that I mocked earlier, fall into the latter two categories and demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of team sports, competition and college basketball.  I summed it up for you when I posted there are two types of people then cited the well thought out replies of other posters who provided stats, well articulated perspective and, sadly, just plain old common sense to refute your claims.  Since then all you've done is talk in circles without providing any examples to support your original post.  In this case, the fact that someone thinks statistics and team accomplishments are sufficient to determine Zarko's worth at this level and his value to the team are just plain idiotic, and if people are going to make public comments like that, then they have to be prepared to get criticized themselves.  Am I still in my safe space, snowflake?

All you are is a cheerleader .. rah rah rah .. not sure what your true motive is but there is something there because you fly off the handle anytime someone questions JN or makes any type of negative comment..

I've complimented this program many times and I'm critical when it's deserved. I'm not a blind cheerleader like you. We don't have to respond to one another anymore we obviously will never agree so take care ..


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 23, 2017, 10:01:28 pm
All you are is a cheerleader .. rah rah rah .. not sure what your true motive is but there is something there because you fly off the handle anytime someone questions JN or makes any type of negative comment..

I've complimented this program many times and I'm critical when it's deserved. I'm not a blind cheerleader like you. We don't have to respond to one another anymore we obviously will never agree so take care ..
We're done here.  You're lost.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Kaup on March 23, 2017, 10:03:45 pm
All you are is a cheerleader .. rah rah rah .. not sure what your true motive is but there is something there because you fly off the handle anytime someone questions JN or makes any type of negative comment..

I've complimented this program many times and I'm critical when it's deserved. I'm not a blind cheerleader like you. We don't have to respond to one another anymore we obviously will never agree so take care ..
Sorry.  Stopped reading at rah rah rah.  You take care too, but also try to develop your reasoning and logic.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: Madram on March 24, 2017, 08:15:52 am
Sorry.  Stopped reading at rah rah rah.  You take care too, but also try to develop your reasoning and logic.

Actually no , you read the whole thing


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: drunkle on March 24, 2017, 10:15:27 am
My tone was a bit flip.  Getting frustrated.  And Sengfelder leaving makes me thing I should hold back. Like I closed, we shall see.  Which I guess is just a truism.

Since this turned into a Zarko thread, I will add to it.  Not much to say statistically.  But since Neubauer knows advanced metrics and still played him he has those things coaches like that don't show in the stat sheet.  His usage rate was so comically low (not his minutes played but % of his court time he is involved on offense) you know he is doing little things coaches want done.  With JC, AA, Havsa now and hopefully Hicks, yes, his minutes should come down.  But he is clearly a useful player in the coach's eyes.  Averaged 20 minutes a game in conference last year averaging almost 3-1 assists to TOVs and 35.7 from 3 while hustling in JN's D system, so a glue guy for an 8-10 conference team which had guys like Rhoomes, Thomas, Chartouny, Sengfelder, Severe and Anderson to take shots.  Not that it was murderers row but a decent team, and every team needs guys who are willing to just do grunt work.

That said more dynamic players are needed.  You can't just have a team of hustle guys.  But if healthy he could be a contributor more or less. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: charlietags on March 27, 2017, 01:32:20 pm
I don't think this was a good season. We regressed. Now we need pieces for next year and I don't see them yet. Losing Sengfelder and Hawkins hurts especially when it doesn't appear we have replacement for them.  We need rebounding help big time and a pure shooter or 2.  And all the criticism of Zarko was unfounded IMHO. The kid has a decent 3 point shot but other than that lacks athleticism. But he could help if we need a 3. I watched Beilein's team play and you could  see where Neubauer learned.  He definitely can coach, but he must have players who fit the system.


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: An Old Coach on March 27, 2017, 02:59:32 pm
I don't think this was a good season. We regressed. Now we need pieces for next year and I don't see them yet. Losing Sengfelder and Hawkins hurts especially when it doesn't appear we have replacement for them.  We need rebounding help big time and a pure shooter or 2.  And all the criticism of Zarko was unfounded IMHO. The kid has a decent 3 point shot but other than that lacks athleticism. But he could help if we need a 3. I watched Beilein's team play and you could  see where Neubauer learned.  He definitely can coach, but he must have players who fit the system.


Recruiting and retaining players is as important facet of the game as any.  You can't survive today if you can't do both. 


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: 85 on March 28, 2017, 08:58:26 pm
We had a loosing record in the A10 both this year and last.  We need more talent, everyone can agree on that!!  People will have to loose minutes.  A guy who is averaging 20mins and 2.7pts per game for his career seems like an obvious choice. 
 

My Boston terrier had a loose stool. It's lose!


Title: Re: Not sure how people think this was a good season
Post by: klb75119 on March 29, 2017, 10:35:01 am
By the end of next season we may consider this past season as a success!!