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1  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Athletic Department Topics / Re: BUS on: July 17, 2017, 05:59:28 pm
They say that with Academy, you give them the business, they take you for a ride!
2  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: NCAA Men's Basketball Committee Will Place Greater Emphasis on Road Wins on: July 16, 2017, 04:38:08 pm
I like it.  The question is how many more A10 teams will probably get a shot at a power team (assuming this were to influence scheduling behavior as planned) that wouldn't have before?

I still believe that the best thing would be to also throw in some sort of computerized scheduling to inject a bit of randomness, but this is still a good start.
3  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Athletic Department Topics / Re: BUS on: July 16, 2017, 04:32:26 pm
Give'm a break DR!  The other side will read...

HAM
esuit School
w York


Can you imagine how many buses they would need if they went with that newer tagline ("New York is my campus")?  They might need some of those accordion type buses.
4  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Athletic Department Topics / Re: BUS on: July 14, 2017, 05:02:11 pm
Knowing Fordham, when they decide to do it, instead of advertising themselves on a bus, they will do it on the cheap by placing it on smart cars.

I can see it now...

FORD
The J
of Ne
5  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Athletic Department Topics / Re: BUS on: July 14, 2017, 09:25:52 am
I've thought the same thing that it would be a good rolling advertisement.

I didn't consider the vandalism aspect, good point 85.  However, per Chaka buses are very expensive to buy and maintain, and Fordham is really stretched on budget. 

There are also the legal and PR implications that come with owning the bus and hiring the driver, should there ever be any sort of accident.  BTW, finding a good reliable driver with a CDL license and clean driving record (important in case there is an accident and lawsuit) is no small feat given the competition for those folks.
6  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Players I think we should look into. The Recruiting Speculation Game on: July 11, 2017, 04:18:01 pm
The NCAA By-Laws are so over engineered, I'm not even sure they understand why they made certain rules. My favorite... you're allowed to provide your student athletes bagels, but no cream cheese or butter! NO WAY!

It's simple. Don't revoke your players scholarships if you don't want them to have immediate eligibility. If they're being a bad teammate, handle it the old fashioned way - run them into submission, and sit their a$$ on the far end of the bench. I can't imagine players regularly sabotaging themselves in order to force their coaches hand into revoking a ship.

I didn't know that.  I'm assuming plain bagels are allowed, but everything bagels would considered "pure luxury"!  Grin

No, it wouldn't be a common occurrence at all.  Just saying that immediate eligibility would create a powerful temptation and inevitably it would be exploited.  There should be a process for countering it when that happens.  Keeping a player benched for a very long time once it's clear he really wants out is not a reliable solution because it's a waste of a scholarship and thus a huge opportunity cost.  Coaches have no reason to keep such a kid and it would be in the coach's best interests to cut him loose. 

Essentially I think what I described would be a way of giving a player either an honorable discharge (with no consequences) or a dishonorable discharge (you would have to sit a year).  It would actually reward kids for trying hard and discourage primadonnas.
7  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Players I think we should look into. The Recruiting Speculation Game on: July 11, 2017, 02:13:48 pm
You're giving the NCAA way too much power for the more than likely rare case. NCAA needs to be deregulated.... not given more power.

I disagree about needing deregulating the NCAA but that's for a different thread. 

I'm not sure it's going to be a rare case.  Once you open up a new route to immediate eligibility for transfers, I can guarantee that street agents and players who want to transfer will find ways to exploit it.  The 1 year sit out rule is there to prevent exploitation of smaller programs by bigger programs, so it's important to put in whatever safeguards are necessary to continue those protections.

I do see your point though.  I would say that the coach should be the first decision-maker, and if the student feels it's unfair they could appeal to the NCAA.  Most of the time I would imagine a coach would out of guilt or conscience allow a released player (where there wasn't some bad will) to transfer and play immediately, and whenever they don't then the player would immediately appeal the coach's decision to the NCAA.
8  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Rothstein's A-10 Offseason Notebook on: July 11, 2017, 11:59:55 am
...but the media had us picked lower than our finish 2 years running.

I'm okay with this kind of scenario.  It makes it that much more satisfying when Fordham beats expectations.
9  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Players I think we should look into. The Recruiting Speculation Game on: July 11, 2017, 11:55:57 am
Perhaps all it will take is an appeal to set the precedent. I'd like to hear the NCAAs argument in favor of forcing a kid to sit a year after having his scholarship revoked.

It does seem very unjust in the cases where a kid essentially got dumped through no serious fault of his own (injury, passed over, etc.).  However, I can envision where if you didn't have this kind of rule, kids who want to transfer could act up just to get themselves thrown off a team, at which point they would be rewarded with immediate eligibility.  If you wanted to fix this problem, I think you would have to give the coach of the former team or some NCAA panel the discretion to decide whether a kid should be immediately eligible or whether they should have to sit due to a problem on their part.
10  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: NCAA Weighing Changes for Blocking Transfers and Grad Transfers on: July 07, 2017, 12:07:16 pm
Just restrict NCAA eligibility to undergrads...

I think this is the best idea.  Simple, easy to implement.  It encourages a student-athlete to take his full four years and the school to get the benefit of their investment over his full four years.  Hardly an unreasonable expectation for both sides.  If a kid wants to finish his major or degree early, he can work towards a second major or undergraduate degree.
11  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: If liberty can do it than why can't we? on: May 18, 2017, 12:02:48 am
Read the thread.

Yep, not sure why I missed that.  Don't know what Liberty is thinking on this.
12  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 17, 2017, 08:54:00 pm
Which is it?  When we think big, we should think small.  And when we think small, it is the same old Fordham. We have been averaging nearly 6k per game since the resurgence of football.  So what if we don't fill it, there are A10 tournament games with 3k in the stands, should the games go to the gym at Cardinal Hayes?  Memorial Field, Yankee Stadium, or other venue is often seen as special, like playing a FBS opponent.  It is entertainment after all. 

If the program extends its success, alumni and students will expect these types of games.  This is no longer the days of 1200 in the stands versus Kings Point. 

Nobody is going to expect a Fordham game at even a brand new Memorial Field.  Ever.  The mayor and whoever is pushing that proposal is out of their mind.  That was and should always be a high school field.  The proposed Mt. Vernon facility is a solution desperately in search of a need.

More likely for Fordham fans is they would expect Fordham to finish JCF by adding opposing stands.  Even adding say 3000 seat portable modular bleachers (in sets of 500 seats per) would do a lot to radically change the game day experience at JCF, and of course Fordham could always just build even bigger if the need were really there.  Assuming Fordham football were to really take off, it would be far better to add another grandstand for say 7 to 8000 seats and move baseball somewhere else, rather than relying on all those people to make their way up to Mt. Vernon.

Yankee Stadium is the far more logical choice for any truly big game that we would want to impress someone with a special venue.
13  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: If liberty can do it than why can't we? on: May 17, 2017, 02:21:01 pm

I don't understand the tie you're making to Liberty.

As for this case, all I can say is if were advising a student going into college today, I would tell them if they are ever the victim of an assault or crime, I would go immediately and directly to the police.  Not campus police even, I mean the actual outside police.  I would also get a lawyer and perhaps even publicize the incident.

This case proves yet again that colleges have inherent conflicts of interest that make it sometimes impossible for a victim to get justice.  The colleges have a vested interest in sweeping things under the rug, and especially when there are potential impacts on their big time athletics investments.
14  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Why the RHG is to be Named for McGlaughlin on: May 17, 2017, 10:37:27 am
One of our 2 year students now sits in the oval office. How about getting some of his money to pay for a new arena? Or are we too politically correct to do that?

More like too politically astute to do that.  I'm guessing you didn't read the news this morning?

Besides, he's not one our two year students.  He doesn't regard himself as such, never really has, thinks of himself as a UPenn guy through and through.
15  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 17, 2017, 10:31:31 am
Agreed. I'm just trying to figure out what it would be an option for. Why would we ever need a 15000, 20,000 or 25000 seat stadium for football.  We almost never fill the one we have except for parents weekend and homecoming.  You can't move those games. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything.  This thread is like a Seinfeld episode - it's all about nothing really.  Whether you approach it from our perspective (where's the need?) or from Ace's perspective (it's not worth talking about as an option unless it's built), we all get to the same place.
16  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 16, 2017, 05:04:10 pm
The option is there, just as it is with any other stadium in the area, assuming said stadium is amenable to it.

With this MV stadium, I say let's cross that bridge if/when the opportunity presents itself. As of now it is a fairly pointless conversation given that it very unclear if the stadium at a beneficial capacity will ever come to be.

You're right about options.  There are lots of options, but very few that even theoretically would ever make sense in our case.  The question remains as to when Fordham would ever even need the use of the proposed Mt. Vernon facility.  Who would we play there?  Any FCS team we could I'm sure accommodate at JCF with some portable bleachers added.  Any FBS team either would have us come to their place, or would insist we play at a pro stadium.

I'm sure the proposed Mt. Vernon stadium, if it were to ever actually be built, would be very amenable to having Fordham play a few games there.  In fact, I would guess if this thing were to seriously move forward they would practically be begging Fordham to put a few games there in order to make it look a bit more economically feasible.

17  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Why the RHG is to be Named for McGlaughlin on: May 16, 2017, 01:59:55 pm
I know....my point is more that this is NOT a naming rights issue.

 It is a proposal to name the floor after Frank's family.....set forth by a group of current and former BOT members.......its a campaign....not a naming rights solicitation.....its not some company plunking down  money to get the name Citi Field or the like, that is a mischaracterization...

It seems like both to me.  I think the best way to describe this is a very narrowly focused naming rights campaign, created by a core group and with a very specific outcome in mind.  A bunch of Frank's friends are engaging in a campaign to name the floor after Frank (irony aside).  Now, if Citibank wanted to come along and offer that amount cash-in-hand (or even offer more than the 2.5 million), it would strain credibility to think Fordham would turn that offer down.  I'm sure Fordham is far more interested in getting the improvements made rather than using them exclusively as an excuse to memorialize Frank.

18  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 16, 2017, 09:09:01 am
At least football would have a chance at filling a 25k venue.  We filling MSG, not so much.

I will say the opposite, and will start off by saying MSG is already built, Mt. Vernon is at this point highly speculative.

I think that IF Fordham got to be a consistently good basketball team and IF we were playing some really good marquee names as part of invitational doubleheaders, I think we could see attendance exceeding 15K in those rare circumstances.  Yes, those are some significant conditionals, but that is in the realm of possibility.

I see Fordham football playing before 25K at Mt. Vernon as far more problematic. 

1. I doubt that such a facility will actually get built for all sorts of municipal reasons including budgets, NIMBY opposition, traffic and parking concerns, lack of demand, etc..
 
2. Even if the facility got built and Fordham was willing to play there, I doubt that Fordham could possibly get big crowds short of playing there as part of an FCS Championship (which itself is contingent on the FCS authorities deeming it a worthy venue, which I doubt would happen because I just don't think there is that kind of interest in NYC).
 
3. Fordham would not be able to draw bigger opponents there, since those teams don't travel and would instead expect Fordham to travel for a pay game situation.  Even if a big team was willing to travel to NYC to play Fordham, I think a game at a pro stadium like Yankee Stadium would be far more likely.

4. I would rather see Fordham add capability to put out portable stands for up to 3000 seats for visitors for the big games and see if we can grow enough to justify making a permanent enlargement to JCF.  That will take a while still, and will eventually involving moving baseball off of JCF.
19  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 16, 2017, 08:54:37 am
  Has there ever been a grounds/facilities Master Plan?  If so, curious when it was.  Fordham took what (for Fordham) was big $$'s to rename the baseball field a few years back.  Not sure if they just grabbed the $$'s and didn't consider the future or if they had no Master Plan with which to consider it against but it seems like it would be tough to just take the field and move it off campus now, no? 

Long-short, I agree with you about both baseball and the campus entrance.

At the risk of going down an even more unnecessary rabbit trail than playing in Mt. Vernon, does anyone know if we have the air rights above the Metro North tracks? 


Last I heard, and this is very old information (at least 20 years now), is that Fordham did NOT own those rights.  They were owned by some real estate investors who did not want to part with them.  I don't know what has happened since then.
20  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Why the RHG is to be Named for McGlaughlin on: May 15, 2017, 10:29:29 pm
Here's the same list of schools I posted before (when they were ranked in order of endowment), only this time I've ranked them in order of total cost of attendance (tuition, room/board, books, fees) per year, without financial aid. As you can see, one ranking hasn't changed...

Fordham: $67,000
San Francisco: $63,000
Fairfield: $62,000
Villanova: $62,000
Holy Cross: $61,000
Loyola (MD): $61,000
St. Mary's: $61,000
Loyola Marymount: $60,000
Providence: $60,000
St. Joe's: $59,000
Manhattan: $58,000
St. John's: $57,000
LaSalle: $56,000
Loyola (IL): $56,000
Sacred Heart: $55,000
Dayton: $53,000
Gonzaga: $53,000
Seton Hall: $53,000
Creighton: $52,000
Detroit Mercy: $52,000
Iona: $52,000
Marist: $51,000
Duquesne: $50,000
Siena: $50,000
St. Peter's: $50,000
Canisius: $49,000
Niagara: $44,000
St. Bonaventure: $44,000

Interestingly, if you add to this list the total cost of attendance at the three Catholic schools that have bigger endowments than Fordham (BC, Georgetown and Notre Dame), Fordham is still tied for first with Notre Dame (at $67,000), while Georgetown ($66,000) and BC ($65,000) come in second and third...

No surprise that Fordham is at the top on sticker price.  Fordham is highly tuition dependent (92 cents on every dollar comes from students).  It's overstretched in terms of how much it tries to do given the endowment, it has a highly inefficient cost structure featuring not just one but two main campuses in one of the most expensive cities in the world, and it has a pretty high debt.  No way they could easily afford to build a new arena right now, though they should start a strategic plan for basketball which culminates in a campaign for a new arena.

Notre Dame can charge what it does because of the perceived brand value of the experience and the degree.  GT and BC both operate in expensive cities, but the same goes for them as well.
21  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 15, 2017, 10:17:02 pm
And where, pray tell, will we find 3000 bodies to fill those bleachers? We can't fill all the seats we have now, even with a ranked FCS football team that has gone to the playoffs in three of the last four years. This entire discussion of a 20,000 seat stadium in Mount Vernon, or even adding seats in Coffey Field, is ridiculous.

Your prayers are answered.  The (up to) 3000 bodies would come from the fans of opposing teams.  For most opposing teams, we could probably get by with portable seating for 1000.  For some of the larger ones, we could put out more stands.  It's not at all ridiculous to want to do this because it would radically improve the game day experience for everyone.  Doing this makes Fordham much more attractive as an away game destination.  What is ridiculous is a major university that spends lots of money to aspire to high FCS has a stadium that is half-finished, while even high schools in poor school districts have small sets of opposing stands.

I agree the discussion of a 20,000 seat stadium in Mount Vernon IS ridiculous for so many reasons.
22  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Football / Re: Memorial Field stadium on: May 15, 2017, 04:43:39 pm
I never understood why this university hoards property around the perimeter of the campus without any intention to use it. They have an enormous swath of properties directly across from the Metro North tracks - the size of which is almost 2 1/2x the size of the current football facilities. That Mount Vernon project should be placed right there.

Do you know for a fact that Fordham owns that property, or are you assuming?  Last I heard the NYBG actually owns the piece that's right on the corner.

I can't imagine Mt. Vernon would be able to pull off anything bigger than a large HS level facility.

From the Fordham perspective, there's just no point to getting involved with this for all the reasons mentioned above.  I would also add it would make us look even smaller than we already are.  Fordham would be much better off putting some movable bleachers onto JCF for say 3000 fans.
23  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Academic standards and athletics success on: May 12, 2017, 09:45:59 am
Academic problems are one thing Fordham seems to have a good handle on with athletics.   This isn't an issue. I don't understand the point of the thread.  We'd have a better team next year if a couple of ex-players were a little less academically motivated.  

I didn't say we had academic problems right now, thankfully, since our program has enough problems as it is.  My intent with this question was to further explore the point that 85 raised about how incredibly unrealistic the "Frank regime" was in regards to academics.  The horror of expecting kids to graduate (disagree with 85 there), the pressure to make some sort of all A10 honor list (agree with 85 there). 

My longer term thought is about what Fordham would put into its strategic plan for success in regards to the matter of ensuring academic integrity while still pursuing athletic excellence.  For example, "Our goal will be to make sure each athlete graduates within four years, but we will not pressure them to get on honor rolls as we recognize the tremendous load that comes with being in this marquee sport".  That would be fine with me.

It's an interesting point about how our team would be better if those now ex-players were less academically motivated.  Can't argue with that point.  All I can say is that I blame the NCAA for making that an option, not the player so much.
24  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Academic standards and athletics success on: May 12, 2017, 09:32:06 am
A shock to us?  Have you ever been involved in the athletics process at any level? You are preaching from some pulpit of bs, telling everyone else how it "really is" as if you know and we don't?   Come on DR, now you are getting embarrassing. 

This is pie in the sky high school mentality. We are in the A-10, win games. These are men, not 16 year old boys.

No, the info I have is inside info but it was second-hand and now quite dated.  However, you mean the stories I have heard and read about over the years about how advisors at power programs steer athletes into easier courses to help keep them eligible have all been made up?  Well gosh, I'm SO happy to hear that was all "fake news"!

Not sure why you think it's "pie in sky high school mentality" to think that it's in a school's and program's best interests to expect and push for kids to actually graduate.  It's kind of embarrassing IMO to think otherwise.

25  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Academic standards and athletics success on: May 11, 2017, 10:54:56 pm
Not sure why we should care about the students commitment outside of staying eligible. It's their choice how much they want to dedicate to their studies.

Stay eligible and win baby!


Because it's in the student's best interests long term.  On the assumption that there isn't an NBA contract and shoe money waiting for him if and when he graduates, a player needs to have that education to "fall back" on.  The whole idea of a core curriculum is to force you to take courses you might not otherwise.  It's the job of a good advisor to not just cater to a student's whim, but to advise them on all their options, especially the ones the student might not have thought of.

Now, I know this might come as a shock to you, but many advisors essentially work for the athletic department (no matter what they might claim otherwise).  When I hear a lot of athletes take the easy tracks, it makes me wonder how many really wanted that, and how many might have wanted something else but got steered because non-demanding tracks work great for the coaches.  When you make academics a priority you put the students first.  Advisors are more likely to not steer and to actually help the student to a place they might not otherwise go.  For example, Denzel was encouraged to try out for theater by an informal advisor (his girlfriend).  I hear that worked out well for him.  How many athletes could similarly benefit from such advice?
26  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Academic standards and athletics success on: May 11, 2017, 10:40:20 pm
Once again, we are not talking about admissions. You have introduced that as an issue, which it isnt.

We are talking about the mindset of kids with a lot of options and many have no desire to commit to the level Fordham wants or pehaps "wanted" academically. It doesnt mean they will not graduate and it doesnt mean they will fail. Its called choosing the school that you think is best for you. Hopefully, the Pecora/Frank lovefest of getting all academic a-10 players is over and we continue to win more games as a prime directive.

Your exact quote:  "#1 priority in the Frank regime was to graduate everyone and get players on the A-10 all academic list"

Second part I'm not really disagreeing with you on.  It's certainly a nice goal to have, not one though that I think is that important for a program in a very competitive conference.

First part though, the one about graduating everyone, IS a very important goal to have.  It's directly related to Fordham's primary purpose.  It's also in everyone's interests - the school, the program, the parents, and the players.  It's frankly stupid (I'll let you decide if that's a pun) to belittle an athletics department for trying to maintain such standards.  If you don't set this as a standard, and if you don't provide those "advisors, study halls, and academic pressure" that you apparently feel are not that necessary, then you'll have players losing eligibility, to say nothing of perhaps failing out.

Now as for why this is an admissions matter... If you accept kids that don't have graduation as a goal and/or who aren't equipped to succeed for whatever reason, then you shouldn't be admitting them, period.  I don't care how good the kid is, he's not going to be around for long.  That's true whether he's an athlete or not.  It's the job of the admissions office to enforce basic standards and not just yield to the coach on whatever he wants.  If you don't hold the line, then you get problems down the road.  The more a kid hews to the academic profile of the average student, the less chance there is that he will fall behind and require more compromises down the road to keep him eligible.  It's really no different than who a landlord screening tenants - Do it well, it's harder but you have far fewer problems.  Do it poorly because you just want the quick money, you end up paying a lot more in the end.
27  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Academic standards and athletics success on: May 11, 2017, 05:01:07 pm
Academic Commitment?

All I care about is if they pass their classes and remain eligible. Should we care about anything more than that?

The players have everything the need to pass and to do well. Its up to them how far they want to take it. Study Halls, tutors, advisors that will build your schedule around practice/games and find the teachers that are best suited for the students.

Yes, we should care.  That's the whole Jesuit education thing.  Remember "cura personalis" - care for the whole person?  Assuming it's not an empty marketing slogan it suggests that Fordham accepts a higher responsibility than just accepting registration forms and putting all the responsibility on the student to just figure it all out.  That is on top of the increased obligation a college takes on (whether they want it or not is irrelevant) to provide extra resources and guidance if the student they accept is below average, and that obligation increases the more below average the student is.  

Some people such as 85 say that some players have apparently found it onerous to have "advisors, study hall, academic pressures" (you know, that goal of actually graduating and maybe even doing well in their classes beyond just staying eligible).  If we were to actually NOT offer those advisors, study halls, and have "academic pressures" (i.e. expectations they will do well), that just makes it all the more important that Fordham be admitting only those players who have proven they can do academic work at the Fordham level and keep up.


28  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Tre Evans Commits to Fordham on: May 11, 2017, 12:42:59 pm
New thread has been created.  See "Academic standards and athletics success".

Once again, all this talk on academic standards and athletics success in this thread had NOTHING to do with Tre one way or the other and nothing should be read into any of it.  As usual a thread went off topic so we set up one to deal with just this specific subject.

Once again, welcome to Fordham Tre!
29  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Academic standards and athletics success on: May 11, 2017, 12:39:49 pm
Creating this new thread for this.

What is the right balance?  What is Fordham doing in this respect?  What should or shouldn't Fordham do in terms of admissions and once players are admitted?
30  The Fordham Forums / Fordham Men's Basketball / Re: Tre Evans Commits to Fordham on: May 11, 2017, 11:57:31 am
I agree we need a new thread, and none of this has anything to do with Tre of course.
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