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If liberty can do it than why can't we?


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Author Topic: If liberty can do it than why can't we?  (Read 1104 times)
Madram
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« on: February 17, 2017, 07:51:27 am »

just read that liberty is making the jump to FBS. Big move and very surprising but shows that it can be done at smaller private schools. Especially now with the era of mega conferences these lower tier fbs conferences like the sun belt , c USA need schools like this to survive .

Just saying it an he done .
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 08:07:18 am »

sure it can be done, but the question is SHOULD it be done. Unless there's wide sweeping changes across the university and we first build a state of the art basketball arena and student center it's not even worth thinking about. Even still, I'd rather join the CAA or convince Nova and similar schools to join the PL. None of the above are happening.
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 08:54:05 am »

Liberty is a school on the rise as enrollment is continuing to grow.They also have a large online program.
I have driven by the campus and stadium, yet not really walked the campus but it is very nice.  Located on the outskirts of Lynchburg, VA. 

I am not sure if I get the fascination with moving up to FBS unless you can get into a better conference.  Maybe the budget to do so what not be that much more?
I am not sure Conf USA and Sunbelt would be a draw to the student body and community.  Not to sounds snotty, but I would much prefer Conf USA over the Sunbelt as at least the schools have some name recognition.

NY brings up valid points, plus sadly NYC is a pro sports town.
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 09:48:26 am »

No reason at all to even consider FBS for Fordham.  It brings nothing to the table.  This has been a goal for Liberty for 30 years.  Good for them.

If we can just get the PL to pick up a couple of more schools I think we're in a great place.  Richmond may take a look at some point.  Maybe a Monmouth, Duquesne, Elon or Charleston Southern or VMI...  Get the conference to 10 and I think we'd make some noise. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 10:48:37 am »

I graduated in '13....I will be older than Old Coach before we make the switch  Wink

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 11:15:20 am »

No reason at all to even consider FBS for Fordham.  It brings nothing to the table.  This has been a goal for Liberty for 30 years.  Good for them.

If we can just get the PL to pick up a couple of more schools I think we're in a great place.  Richmond may take a look at some point.  Maybe a Monmouth, Duquesne, Elon or Charleston Southern or VMI...  Get the conference to 10 and I think we'd make some noise. 

You say "they" have wanted to go fbs for over 30 years? Who is they? I doubt the same administration is still in place since the 1980's plotting a move to division 1 football.... so what suddenly changed after the 30 years of planning and hoping to go D1. Why now ?
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 12:41:21 pm »

You say "they" have wanted to go fbs for over 30 years? Who is they? I doubt the same administration is still in place since the 1980's plotting a move to division 1 football.... so what suddenly changed after the 30 years of planning and hoping to go D1. Why now ?

Back when Sam Rutigliano was the coach at Liberty in the late '80's, (then Liberty Baptist) he would talk about the program moving up to anyone who would listen.  He had a pretty good run there and it was tough being a I-AA independent.  He had pretty strong connections in the NY area and did a lot of recruiting up here.  I think he started his career at Greenwich High School and was at a school in Westchester.  Anyway, when he was hired back then, University President Jerry Falwell said the goal was to be D-I.  They've built a pretty successful program, Turner Gill is a good coach. I guess they've done their homework, have made the case and figure now is the time.  As for the administration, Jerry Falwell founded the school and his son is the president now.  I guess they talked about it once or twice.
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 04:12:07 pm »

It goes back to institutional priority.  Right now our facilities are below our peers in the PL (sans Georgetown).  If we moved to the CAA  I think we bump along bottom to middle of the standings (unless improvements were made).

As far as FBS   Fordham unfortunately doesn't even provide adequate training and meeting facilities for its student athletes in FCS football and A-10 bball.   I guess we could play our home games in Met Life Stadium or Bronx MLS stadium   but what conference would we join?    but one can dream..
 East Coast 11   ECL   
 UMass
 UConn
 Temple
 Fordham
 Army 
 Navy
 Delaware
 Coastal Carolina
 Old Dominion 
 James Madison 
 South Florida 
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 04:38:35 pm »

just read that liberty is making the jump to FBS. Big move and very surprising but shows that it can be done at smaller private schools. Especially now with the era of mega conferences these lower tier fbs conferences like the sun belt , c USA need schools like this to survive .

Just saying it an he done .

It's not the we can't, it's that we don't want to. And that's ok.
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 05:55:04 pm »

It's not the we can't, it's that we don't want to. And that's ok.

liberty hired THIS man to lead their athletic department. We should do nothing like Liberty.

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/article_6b0d1759-7c3d-5626-a5a0-ff7776bc267b.html
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 06:41:16 pm »

liberty hired THIS man to lead their athletic department. We should do nothing like Liberty.

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/article_6b0d1759-7c3d-5626-a5a0-ff7776bc267b.html

Why not?  Did I miss that he was accused of something?
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 07:00:48 pm »

Departments should have a separate development office for planning, construction, and fundraising.  ADs should hire coaches, and schedule seasons.
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 07:13:07 pm »

Why not?  Did I miss that he was accused of something?

This is a joke right?   
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 07:49:18 pm »

This is a joke right?   

Guilt by association?  Does that stand up in court, counsellor?
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 07:55:31 pm »

Guilt by association?  Does that stand up in court, counsellor?

This isn't a court why can't people understand when burdens of proof apply and what they are.  Ignorance is staggering.  Also when you are the athletic director of a school whose highest profile sport is raping women and covering it up you are gone and a supposed religious college hiring him is high comedy.  The idea that this scumbag did not know what was going on is nonsense. 
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2017, 08:02:59 pm »


Also when you are the athletic director of a school whose highest profile sport is raping women and covering it up you are gone and a supposed religious college hiring him is high comedy.  The idea that this scumbag did not know what was going on is nonsense. 

Good time to remind people that defamation laws apply to internet postings.  Some are not only coming close but may have crossed the line. 

http://www.traverselegal.com/defamation-libel-slander/
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2017, 08:05:56 pm »

Good time to remind people that defamation laws apply to internet postings.  Some are not only coming close but may have crossed the line. 

http://www.traverselegal.com/defamation-libel-slander/


Ignorance is staggering.  You may learn the difference the hard way. 
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2017, 08:54:08 pm »

This isn't a court why can't people understand when burdens of proof apply and what they are.  Ignorance is staggering.  Also when you are the athletic director of a school whose highest profile sport is raping women and covering it up you are gone and a supposed religious college hiring him is high comedy.  The idea that this scumbag did not know what was going on is nonsense. 

You mean like all of the Catholic colleges who had priests on their faculty that were guilty of crimes against  children and covered up those crimes?
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2017, 08:58:40 pm »

Ignorance is staggering.  You may learn the difference the hard way. 

I don't think so given the hard proof I have. And oh by the way, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Have a good night.
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Rich93
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2017, 09:13:27 pm »

You mean like all of the Catholic colleges who had priests on their faculty that were guilty of crimes against  children and covered up those crimes?

So it's ok for Liberty, a southern baptism school as far as I know, to hire the guy who helped cover up rapes because of the pedophelia issue in the Catholic Church? Do yourself a favor and read this article before further embarrassing yourself. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/11/29/in-hiring-ian-mccaw-liberty-university-sends-a-chilling-message/?utm_term=.c7de59f8948c
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2017, 09:45:52 pm »

So it's ok for Liberty, a southern baptism school as far as I know, to hire the guy who helped cover up rapes because of the pedophelia issue in the Catholic Church? Do yourself a favor and read this article before further embarrassing yourself. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/11/29/in-hiring-ian-mccaw-liberty-university-sends-a-chilling-message/?utm_term=.c7de59f8948c

This WaPo opinion piece is remarkably lacking in persuasive logic and proof.  When people closer to the situation vouch for the man.... they are hit with the new crime charge called "tone deaf"

In the writer's own words....
The release also included this remarkably tone-deaf sentence: “Those in Waco who knew McCaw’s Baylor track record were quick to endorse the choice, even though they wished he had opted to stay at Baylor.”

The release quoted a former athletic director and a member of the Baylor board. Funnily enough, it did not include the opinion of Baylor Board of Regents member J. Cary Gray, who told the Wall Street Journal, “There was a cultural issue there that was putting winning football games above everything else, including our values. We did not have a caring community when it came to these women who reported that they were assaulted. And that is not okay.”


Where's the actual accusation of wrong doing or guilt by McCaw?

I have a strong sense that Liberty looked into the facts involving this hire more than the writer looked into them.

But it sure make for some impressive "virtue signaling"  ..... today's coin of the realm.
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Rich93
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2017, 09:50:13 pm »

The same people who defended the coach until the texts came out?   Laughable.  There is a lawsuit against him did you read the article?  Here are the allegations in one of several lawsuits.

In the next couple weeks, Ian McCaw’s lawyers are scheduled to respond to a lawsuit by a woman named Jasmin Hernandez. In the suit, Hernandez alleges McCaw, as the athletic director at Baylor, knew a football player named Tevin Elliott had been accused several times of committing sexual assault. She alleges McCaw failed to protect Hernandez before Elliot raped her and showed willful indifference afterward.

Liberty and its president, Jerry Falwell Jr., hired a man in the midst of ongoing litigation relating to the high-profile disgrace that forced him from his old job. McCaw ran the athletic program in which law firm Pepper Hamilton, tabbed by the school to perform an independent investigation, found “a failure to identify and respond to a pattern of sexual violence by a football player, to take action in response to reports of a sexual assault by multiple football players, and to take action in response to a report of dating violence.”


 Falwell is a disgrace any issues are on him now.  I am sure his in depth review of the facts was sufficient.  God probably told him hire this guy it's ok make bank.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2017, 09:53:36 pm »

You mean like all of the Catholic colleges who had priests on their faculty that were guilty of crimes against  children and covered up those crimes?

I fail to see how one makes the other right.

That said, were there priests who were moved to colleges after discovery of what they had done? I know the church covered up a ton and I am the last guy that will defend the church, but I do not know of cases where priests who were caught were moved to colleges as a cover up.
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2017, 10:10:28 pm »

The same people who defended the coach until the texts came out?   Laughable.  There is a lawsuit against him did you read the article?  Here are the allegations in one of several lawsuits.

In the next couple weeks, Ian McCaw’s lawyers are scheduled to respond to a lawsuit by a woman named Jasmin Hernandez. In the suit, Hernandez alleges McCaw, as the athletic director at Baylor, knew a football player named Tevin Elliott had been accused several times of committing sexual assault. She alleges McCaw failed to protect Hernandez before Elliot raped her and showed willful indifference afterward.

Liberty and its president, Jerry Falwell Jr., hired a man in the midst of ongoing litigation relating to the high-profile disgrace that forced him from his old job. McCaw ran the athletic program in which law firm Pepper Hamilton, tabbed by the school to perform an independent investigation, found “a failure to identify and respond to a pattern of sexual violence by a football player, to take action in response to reports of a sexual assault by multiple football players, and to take action in response to a report of dating violence.”


 Falwell is a disgrace any issues are on him now.  I am sure his in depth review of the facts was sufficient.  God probably told him hire this guy it's ok make bank.   Roll Eyes

I seriously doubt you know what happened at Baylor.  The Regents accepted his resignation, allowed him to hire the interim football coach before his departure, and said this about him in accepting his resignation.

Baylor’s Board of Regents issued the following statement in response to McCaw’s decision:

“We understand and accept this difficult decision by Ian McCaw to resign as Athletic Director and are grateful for his service to Baylor University. We also appreciate Ian’s commitment and involvement in bringing a person of integrity such as Jim Grobe to the University before making this decision.”



In the month's or years ahead we can mark all of these words and see how these lawsuits conclude. I'll predict the lawsuits go no where involving McCaw.  For those close to Baylor, they know him to be a good man who missed what was happening, he didn't engineer it, he didn't approve it, and fair people who look into the facts know that.
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2017, 10:16:05 pm »

I do know because there are texts with the AD covering for the players.  More will come out. Closing your eyes does not make the facts any less true.

Here’s how former Baylor athletic director Ian McCaw reacted when he was told that the Waco Police Department offered to downplay the arrest of a player accused of assaulting and threatening to kill someone: “That would be great if they kept it quiet!”



https://theringer.com/baylor-bears-football-program-art-briles-court-filing-2fc2103c5bb5

I know reading is not a big thing these days but here is a summary of the Pepoer Hamilton findings. They torch the entire university including the athletic department which if I am not mistaken is run by the AD. But yeah nothing to see here move along.  If you think the release of the texts did not lead to Mccaw leaving you are a fool.  They thought they could get away with it but electronic records don't lie. 

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/05/26/baylors-scandal-report-significant-concerns-football-rpograms-tone-culture


But it's ok God told Jerry that Mccaw did nothing wrong came down in the burning bush and everything.  Cheesy
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2017, 10:42:52 pm »

I do know because there are texts with the AD covering for the players.  More will come out. Closing your eyes does not make the facts any less true.

Here’s how former Baylor athletic director Ian McCaw reacted when he was told that the Waco Police Department offered to downplay the arrest of a player accused of assaulting and threatening to kill someone: “That would be great if they kept it quiet!”



https://theringer.com/baylor-bears-football-program-art-briles-court-filing-2fc2103c5bb5

I know reading is not a big thing these days but here is a summary of the Pepoer Hamilton findings. They torch the entire university including the athletic department which if I am not mistaken is run by the AD. But yeah nothing to see here move along.  If you think the release of the texts did not lead to Mccaw leaving you are a fool.  They thought they could get away with it but electronic records don't lie. 

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2016/05/26/baylors-scandal-report-significant-concerns-football-rpograms-tone-culture


But it's ok God told Jerry that Mccaw did nothing wrong came down in the burning bush and everything.  Cheesy


A text message, without of context, in a publication called The Ringer is what you're basing your condemnation on counselor?  Really?   

That's your right.  But the plaintiffs better have more than that isolated text if he's allowed to defend himself in court. 

I like the odds of Liberty playing in the Meincke Muffler Bowl in ten years better than the odds of McCaw being out of pocket in those Baylor related lawsuits.


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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2017, 10:46:41 pm »

A text message, without of context, in a publication called The Ringer is what you're basing your condemnation on counselor?  Really?   

That's your right.  But the plaintiffs better have more than that isolated text if he's allowed to defend himself in court. 

I like the odds of Liberty playing in the Meincke Muffler Bowl in ten years better than the odds of McCaw being out of pocket in those Baylor related lawsuits.




 That text is what we in the law call a smoking gun.  Very rare to have direct evidence of a cover up.  I bet they have more but they don't need it.   The pepper Hamilton report is damning to put it mildly. I can't give you the quotes for everything you need to read.   I am teaching you to fish.  As for the lawsuits they will be settled because Mccaw and the rest of the Baylor admins are POS no matter what fantasy Jerry cooked up during his conversation with an imagined burning bush.
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2017, 07:16:20 am »

I fail to see how one makes the other right.

That said, were there priests who were moved to colleges after discovery of what they had done? I know the church covered up a ton and I am the last guy that will defend the church, but I do not know of cases where priests who were caught were moved to colleges as a cover up.

I never said it was right.  My point was simply any graduate/supporter/advocate of a Catholic or religious school shouldn't be throwing stones about who another school is hiring, especially when there is no proof that he was involved in the scandal.  Catholic schools and colleges have a less than exemplary record in their own hiring practices.
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2017, 07:47:02 am »

I never said it was right.  My point was simply any graduate/supporter/advocate of a Catholic or religious school shouldn't be throwing stones about who another school is hiring, especially when there is no proof that he was involved in the scandal.  Catholic schools and colleges have a less than exemplary record in their own hiring practices.

This doesn't make any sense at all. "Any graduate..." that's rediculous
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2017, 08:11:52 am »

I never said it was right.  My point was simply any graduate/supporter/advocate of a Catholic or religious school shouldn't be throwing stones about who another school is hiring, especially when there is no proof that he was involved in the scandal.  Catholic schools and colleges have a less than exemplary record in their own hiring practices.

This is idiotic, so if you are catholic or went to a catholic school you can no longer comment on these issues?  The embarrassment continues. There is proof if you just read.  He was part of the cover up and even if he wasn't if you are so inept that you do not know about multiple serious criminal acts going on in your top sport  you should never be an AD at any level again.  This is not recruiting violations or academic issues, it involves the safety of your student population.
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