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Fordham’s Joseph Chartouny to Declare for NBA Draft


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Author Topic: Fordham’s Joseph Chartouny to Declare for NBA Draft  (Read 4360 times)
Rich93
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« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2017, 10:15:47 am »

Like that will make everyone feel better.

Look, it's good that our student-athletes make use of their summers on campus, and take courses. On the other hand, I agree with 85 and the other posters who questioned the need for having these kids spend the entire year at Fordham, instead of summering with their families. Even the pros don't make the players stay in camp year round.

It is not about feeling better it is about Fordham showing some back bone.  Fordham basketball players are not Kentucky players, they get more from Fordham than the other way around and it is time Fordham start to make that point.  Good way to start is if these guys need summer courses to graduate and are transferring they pay for the courses.  Take the position that the 16-17 academic year ends in the spring summer courses are part of the next calendar year so if you want free classes you play ball in 17-18, if you want to transfer you pay.   Two way street.  
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« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2017, 10:25:52 am »

By the way if Sengfelder or Anderson need summer courses to graduate Fordham should make them pay for them, especially Sengfelder. 

I do not think they can be stopped from using their scholarship since it is awarded for an academic year. Possibly could claim it is not in the budget.

That said, Summer Session II does not start until July 5, which is the new fiscal year, so if they are leaving they would no longer be on scholarship at that point. Much would depend on how many credits they need.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2017, 10:33:02 am »

I do not think they can be stopped from using their scholarship since it is awarded for an academic year. Possibly could claim it is not in the budget.

That said, Summer Session II does not start until July 5, which is the new fiscal year, so if they are leaving they would no longer be on scholarship at that point. Much would depend on how many credits they need.

Are summer sessions considered part of the 16-17 or 17-18 academic year?  When guys take summer courses before their freshman year isn't that a new academic year?   I checked the website did not get an answer but maybe I missed it.  Simple way to fix it is in the future make it clear scholarship/academic year ends with the spring semester and subsequent summer sessions are a part of the next academic calendar year.   

I think this has to happen. 
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« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2017, 10:59:44 am »

Going pro and going to another school are very different.  You want to go make money playing ball have at it.  If you are going to keep playing college ball show some loyalty and gratitude.  Also Anderson had the qualifying issue Fordham stuck with him.  Anderson got his degree from Fordham only played 3 years.    Sengfelder got a 4 year degree in three years did not live up to his end of the bargain.  Chartouny has been here for two years played both years.  Also he has not left, Anderson Sengfelder have. 

First I did mention that he has not left yet. But my point is and maybe I did not explain it clearly. CS and AA are leaving in part because they don't want to be here anymore. If JC comes back it could be because he has no pro options at this point. I think if that happens then it is within reason to question whether he is all in or just resigned to the fact that he has to be here another year as the other options didn't pan out. Point is he may be staying but I would not consider that being loyal.


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« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2017, 11:05:05 am »

My comment below is not related to the basketball performance, or team impact on wins-losses, of our academic policies for our players.  I'm not weighing in on that at all now.

But I find it very ironic that we've said for years how awful it is that college basketball exploits these poor kids.  Squeezing their athletic value out, and tossing them aside when their eligibility is over. Left without degrees, and basic skills to make them employable, etc

Almost expecting them to end up robbing convenience stores or homeless.

And now, we're gnashing our teeth that somehow, these clever, disloyal bastards are using us because they get a degree, and now they are over-prepared for graduate school!

How shameful!    Wink Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Guy Lewis is spinning in his grave, and Lefty Frizzell is laying flowers on Guy's gravesite.  Sonny Vaccaro, who drove Lefty to the cemetery, stayed in the car .... but he's wondering to himself, "How did it get so right?  WTF just happened?  Kids graduating!"

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« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2017, 11:09:41 am »

First I did mention that he has not left yet. But my point is and maybe I did not explain it clearly. CS and AA are leaving in part because they don't want to be here anymore. If JC comes back it could be because he has no pro options at this point. I think if that happens then it is within reason to question whether he is all in or just resigned to the fact that he has to be here another year as the other options didn't pan out. Point is he may be staying but I would not consider that being loyal.

Fair point. I am not expecting him to be here more than one more season either way. I do think the distinction between going to another school and going pro is huge though.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2017, 11:11:17 am »

My comment below is not related to the basketball performance, or team impact on wins-losses, of our academic policies for our players.  I'm not weighing in on that at all now.

But I find it very ironic that we've said for years how awful it is that college basketball exploits these poor kids.  Squeezing their athletic value out, and tossing them aside when their eligibility is over. Left without degrees, and basic skills to make them employable, etc

Almost expecting them to end up robbing convenience stores or homeless.

And now, we're gnashing our teeth that somehow, these clever, disloyal bastards are using us because they get a degree, and now they are over-prepared for graduate school!

How shameful!    Wink Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Guy Lewis is spinning in his grave, and Lefty Frizzell is laying flowers on Guy's gravesite.  Sonny Vaccaro, who drove Lefty to the cemetery, stayed in the car .... but he's wondering to himself, "How did it get so right?  WTF just happened?  Kids graduating!"

Perhaps the various we's you use in your post are not the same people.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2017, 11:31:52 am »

Perhaps the various we's you use in your post are not the same people.

Very true Ace.

Those who are perfect, pure and virtuous are always exempt at times of reflection, ambiguity and situations that create hypocrisy.

I'm not pure, virtuous or perfect.

I'm more Al Davis than Mother Teresa!   Wink
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« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2017, 11:42:27 am »

Very true Ace.

Those who are perfect, pure and virtuous are always exempt at times of reflection, ambiguity and situations that create hypocrisy.

I'm not pure, virtuous or perfect.

I'm more Al Davis than Mother Teresa!   Wink

I do not know where your comment on "those who are perfect" came from, but my point was that perhaps those that claimed that athletes are exploited are not the same people who are now holding the position about disloyalty.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2017, 12:12:55 pm »



I'm more Al Davis than Mother Teresa!   Wink

Not a good look either way.
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« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2017, 12:44:41 pm »

My comment below is not related to the basketball performance, or team impact on wins-losses, of our academic policies for our players.  I'm not weighing in on that at all now.

But I find it very ironic that we've said for years how awful it is that college basketball exploits these poor kids.  Squeezing their athletic value out, and tossing them aside when their eligibility is over. Left without degrees, and basic skills to make them employable, etc

Almost expecting them to end up robbing convenience stores or homeless.

And now, we're gnashing our teeth that somehow, these clever, disloyal bastards are using us because they get a degree, and now they are over-prepared for graduate school!

How shameful!    Wink Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Guy Lewis is spinning in his grave, and Lefty Frizzell is laying flowers on Guy's gravesite.  Sonny Vaccaro, who drove Lefty to the cemetery, stayed in the car .... but he's wondering to himself, "How did it get so right?  WTF just happened?  Kids graduating!"



This post is full of generalizations, says nothing means less.  What many have said here for years is that these kids dont know how good they have it and that if schools got rid of scholarships and did this on a market basis the vast majority of them would not get paid enough to cover their tuition and many would not get a dime.  It would be a real eye opener to most of these kids if their market value was tested.  Ive always believed the Olympic rule should be in place let them make money on their likeness, see how many get a dime for that.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2017, 01:05:12 pm »

But I find it very ironic that we've said for years how awful it is that college basketball exploits these poor kids.  Squeezing their athletic value out, and tossing them aside when their eligibility is over. Left without degrees, and basic skills to make them employable,

I have never in my life said or felt this .. they get a full scholarship to play basketball. They also get the best of everything I terms of tutors, academic help, training etc. they do not get a degree and job skills handed to them , it is not a given or a right.

Hopefully the 4 or 5 years were used to also study and get a degree because once they leave , coaches can't hold their hands and walk them to a job interview or somehow give them knowledge and skills that they should have learned in class like everyone else.

Not of these athletes  are so spoiled because they have been treated like gods their entire life. One day They wake up and realize the NBA is not calling and they just wasted a chance to eat an education. After they realize this, the reaction is blame the evil NCAA that used them and spit them out but never accept blame for themselves. Sorry son , you just wasted a 250,000 dollar education.

Yes they play basketball but is that life any tougher than the student who has 2 jobs putting themselves through school
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« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2017, 01:08:58 pm »


Guy Lewis is spinning in his grave, and Lefty Frizzell is laying flowers on Guy's gravesite.  Sonny Vaccaro, who drove Lefty to the cemetery, stayed in the car .... but he's wondering to himself, "How did it get so right?  WTF just happened?  Kids graduating!"



LOL, Lefty Frizzell was a country singer.  I think you mean Lefty Driesell.  Afro
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« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2017, 01:21:01 pm »

this could work out well if JC prepares for the draft, sees the gap between his game and the NBA, comes back and works even harder to improve his game.  I'll look at this as a glass half full.

But wouldn't you rather have a kid who's committed to the Program?

That he even thinks he's good enough to test the draft is amazing to me???
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« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2017, 01:25:46 pm »

But wouldn't you rather have a kid who's committed to the Program?

That he even thinks he's good enough to test the draft is amazing to me???

I think he knows he is not getting drafted.  Probably wants to get into some pre draft camps and get some exposure.  I think he will be back next year.  Right now we want our players to stay period.
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« Reply #75 on: March 30, 2017, 01:54:49 pm »

On the question of paying for summer courses, I think you'd have a problem telling some players that you'll pay for their courses and telling others that you won't pay for theirs. Coaches want summer courses available for their student-athletes. In some cases, a summer course might let a player take fewer credits during the season, keeping his or her eligibility intact. Other student-athletes may be smarter or more mature, and can handle a full course load during the regular academic year, plus summer courses. [Of course, if our hoops players were so smart, I'd expect to have seen crisper passing and some better shot selection]. 

As to Madram's comments on the value of the scholarship, it's nothing to sneeze at. To pay for a Fordham education, including room and board, you need close to $65,000 post-tax dollars each year. Most folks don't earn that. To get that value for free is truly remarkable. On the one hand, it seems Fordham players and coaches have come to appreciate that.

That it's biting us on the butt right in the Men's Basketball Program tells us that something's not right in the program at this time. Ryan Canty got his degree and stayed at Fordham for a 5th season, working on his Master's.  The women's hoops team had three seniors working through their Masters. Mens' hoops had a lot of experience and talent slated to return next year, and a really good chance to make a big leap up the standings, but the fact that the two guys expected to lead the charge as seniors have decided to leave is troubling, as is the fact that perhaps the team's best player has made the decision to step away, at least temporarily.  We had a real chance to make some noise next season, and, as of now, we don't.
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« Reply #76 on: March 30, 2017, 02:05:45 pm »

On the question of paying for summer courses, I think you'd have a problem telling some players that you'll pay for their courses and telling others that you won't pay for theirs. Coaches want summer courses available for their student-athletes. In some cases, a summer course might let a player take fewer credits during the season, keeping his or her eligibility intact. Other student-athletes may be smarter or more mature, and can handle a full course load during the regular academic year, plus summer courses. [Of course, if our hoops players were so smart, I'd expect to have seen crisper passing and some better shot selection]. 

John, I think it is quite simple, you cap the scholarship to X number of credits per academic calendar year. All student-athletes need to take a minimum of 12 credits per semester (Spring and Fall) to remain full-time students, so how much they are allowed to take in the summer depends on how much they take during Spring and Fall. A credit has a dollar value associated with it, as you well know, so there are financial reasons to create a cap.
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« Reply #77 on: March 30, 2017, 02:06:02 pm »

First I did mention that he has not left yet. But my point is and maybe I did not explain it clearly. CS and AA are leaving in part because they don't want to be here anymore. If JC comes back it could be because he has no pro options at this point. I think if that happens then it is within reason to question whether he is all in or just resigned to the fact that he has to be here another year as the other options didn't pan out. Point is he may be staying but I would not consider that being loyal.


Loyalty ends after the last game of the season.  Thats just the way it is now, like any other business.  The schools and coaches need to understand it and adjust.  The smart ones do get it and will continue to succeed.  I think the rules now are pretty clear.
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« Reply #78 on: March 30, 2017, 03:53:37 pm »

That was my first reaction.

Fordham has had some pretty good April Fools articles pertaining to the basketball team over the years. Patrick Ewing transferring to Fordham was one. Tom Parotta declaring for the NBA was another.

 Back in the day, Moses Malone was rumored heading to Fordham.
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« Reply #79 on: March 30, 2017, 03:59:26 pm »

I recall Len Elmore was headed to St. John's - then Carnessecca went to West Hempstead
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« Reply #80 on: March 30, 2017, 04:05:48 pm »

Back in the day, Moses Malone was rumored heading to Fordham.

That was somone's idea of a joke, at the time, that turned iinto a rumor.
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« Reply #81 on: March 30, 2017, 05:20:54 pm »

Back in the day, Moses Malone was rumored heading to Fordham.

And incredibly, Fordham was among Lou Alcindor's final schools- UCLA, St. John's (rumored to be the favorite), Holy Cross (his high school coach Donahue had just gotten the job), Columbia (Lou was a good student), Fordham (Jack Donahue was a Fordham alum and John Bach's friend). Different times.   
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« Reply #82 on: March 30, 2017, 05:29:40 pm »

I'm a big fan of JC but he is far from NBA ready. There were game I kept waiting for him to step up but it never happened. If he uses 2 more seasons at Fordham, there is a chance he will develop the necessary skills to have a shot. I think he might have a shot at Europe right now but not at a high level. His goal should gaining 1st Team All Conference Honors and Defense Team Honors. IMO he will be back unless he has a personal issue that makes it imperative he goes pro early. I think he is smart enough to finish at Fordham so he has options after BB.
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« Reply #83 on: March 30, 2017, 06:48:27 pm »

Back in the day, Moses Malone was rumored heading to Fordham.

Hell... he still has eligibility left.  Call him now!
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« Reply #84 on: March 30, 2017, 06:52:08 pm »

The being dead part could be a problem.
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« Reply #85 on: March 30, 2017, 09:06:25 pm »

The being dead part could be a problem.

     His stats would still be better than Luke Devine, Zach Wing and Jacob Green combined!
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« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2017, 09:11:10 pm »

     His stats would still be better than Luke Devine, Zach Wing and Jacob Green combined!

As, I suspect, would be his mobility
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« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2017, 11:16:33 pm »

Sorry , Alcindor never considered Fordham. His fifth school was Boston College , then coached by Bob Cousy.
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« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2017, 11:27:50 pm »

Newark Star Ledger listed JC as declaring for NBA in their college listing today.  Made me chuckle a bit since Fordham is very rarely mentioned for any thing in their sports Transaction section.  Hard to believe any NBA team will take a look at him at this stage of his career.  In another article the AP named their Top 100 all time basketball teams.  Nine A10 teams were listed. (U Mass, St. Louis, LaSalle, Dayton, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure, GW, Davidson, St. Josephs)  
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« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2017, 12:36:20 am »

The being dead part could be a problem.

That's a glass half empty way to think 85

.......he'll never transfer is the glass half full way to think about it
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