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Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?


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Question: Hardnett, Smith, Severe, Sengfelder, Anderson....who is next?
Yes. Draw a line in the sand. - 5 (10.4%)
Maybe. Case by case basis. - 19 (39.6%)
No. We would be blackballed if we did. - 24 (50%)
Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?  (Read 2495 times)
85
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« on: April 02, 2017, 12:07:45 pm »

If more players are bolting, then we should consider to start to deny releases until the ship is settled a bit. Or at the very least,  hold off on the release and investigate why it is happening, dont just knee jerk and give one out......

I didnt include Suarez or DBA since it was pretty clear that both were shown the door as opposed to voluntary transfers. Paschal got his release right after Pecora and never played for Neubie so I dont think that applies either.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 12:30:17 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged

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NYRam07
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2017, 12:31:05 pm »

There should be another category: "No"
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2017, 12:32:22 pm »

Start your own poll......and where the hell were you for the Sunday morning skate!  I need back-up, I cant keep taking on these behemoths, im getting old.
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2017, 01:17:34 pm »

No they shouldn't

1) it becomes a PR nightmare as players as well as mommy and daddy go crying to the press about the evil school who won't release them

2) I don't want a player on the team who doesn't want to be here.
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2017, 01:41:03 pm »

He wont be here. He will leave and be forced to sit 2 years as opposed to 1 year if you deny a release to a player.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 12:02:26 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2017, 01:52:35 pm »

What is going on inside the locker room, 85? Hicks should play for christ sake.
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2017, 02:06:12 pm »

If it was just Fordham, then maybe but its an epidemic in college basketball.  These kids are big babies in my opinion.

The problem is that the talent level is so diluted with 351 teams. Schools are starving for talent so they will not press the issue.

Have no idea about the locker room, never been in it.
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2017, 02:12:41 pm »

huge babies.
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2017, 02:20:38 pm »

Is it at all possible that Hicks tasted the food in the cafeteria? Sodoxho Marriott can devise a new pitch for a 2018 contract.

In all seriousness, Jeff Neubauer needs to drop the Salted Caramel Fudge Ben & Jerry's and initiate an explanation on FUV. Intervention level. This is outrageous.
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2017, 02:24:39 pm »

Well it is only a rumor (Hicks)  so I apologize for rumor mongering but the sources were good enough that I felt ok posting it.

Has anyone been granted a release, that we know of, to date?
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2017, 02:35:27 pm »

smoke /fire. this guy is losing the whole team which is OK if you have great recruits/jucos signed on. Looks like Havsa will start next year next to JC.  And there has been really zero addition by subtraction here. All subtraction. get on WFUV next week and talk.
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2017, 02:44:51 pm »

Well in fairness, if a release has not been granted he shouldnt say a word.  I like Neubauer more than I like these players.

SUPPORT NEUBAUER!

You have a coach and a program that gives you the chance to graduate in 3 years and get a free grad degree. You have a staff who took a dismal program and won 17 games and made a post season. What more do you want?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 11:49:45 pm by 85 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2017, 03:10:04 pm »

Let's quit spinning rumors and villifying the players. Let's also fight against type and stop acting like the grumpy old men that we are. Deny transfers! Fine, the kid just transfers to a DII school, gets his schollie, and resumes playing without a hitch. What was our last transfer denial? Oh, yeah, Jio. That worked out well.

Yes, I'd like to hear JN go on WFUV to discuss, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to say anything specific about player status. CS and AA have announced their intentions to graduate and transfer, but until they announce new destinations, the situation is fluid. Who knows who suits up in the fall?

Clearly, some coach/player dissonance here. A bit surprising. Last year, playing Pecora's inherited guys, Rhoomes and Thomas, talked about JN as if he was the greatest thing since Naismith discarded the cube in favor of the ball.  This year, different story. Maybe just different personality, or maybe coach went to the whip hand this season to demand more from the guys, and some of them recoiled. Who knows? My guess is that if you can't play for JN, you won't be able to succeed for any other demanding coach either.

I know that JN has now had two years to evaluate the current A-10 up close, and has come to one conclusion; we need to get much more athletic if we are to succeed. Hopefully he and the staff are out there recruiting up a storm.

But honestly, I can't see how this "deny a release", "deny summer courses", "make them pay" stuff is going to advance the program one bit. It will just turn into a big warning flag for future recruits.  Spin a negative into a positive -- "our kids get their degrees", "they make good use of their time", etc.  Kids may be diffident, but parents will slurp it up.

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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2017, 03:45:30 pm »

Let's quit spinning rumors and villifying the players. Let's also fight against type and stop acting like the grumpy old men that we are. Deny transfers! Fine, the kid just transfers to a DII school, gets his schollie, and resumes playing without a hitch. What was our last transfer denial? Oh, yeah, Jio. That worked out well.



Jio was how many years ago?  Different situation in my view.

How many other schools are graduating players in 3 years with these extra free classes?   I think that is a big part of the current issue.

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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2017, 03:48:55 pm »

In 2011 Martelli denied Obrien his release.  Many including me thought it would hurt SJU.   It did not.  He got bembry a first rounder.   I am not sure if denying releases this year is the right thing to do but Fordham starting to take steps to protect itself will not hurt us with future recruits who want to be here. Now the guys who want to take advantage of us may not come but that is the point of protecting yourself and finding players here for themselves and Fordham. Don't be scared to stand up for yourself.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2011/12/19/todd-obrien


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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2017, 03:54:58 pm »

Fordham starting to take steps to protect itself will not hurt us with future recruits who want to be here. Now the guys who want to take advantage of us may not come but that is the point of protecting yourself and finding players here for themselves and Fordham. Don't be scared to stand up for yourself.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2011/12/19/todd-obrien


Step 1, stop letting players take extra credits to be a position to graduate in 3 years. Its an added financial benefit that appears not to be offered or even considered by other schools. 
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2017, 04:00:42 pm »

Step 1, stop letting players take extra credits to be a position to graduate in 3 years. Its an added financial benefit that appears not to be offered or even considered by other schools. 

Or offer them but make it clear we are not releasing you if you graduate in 3 years.  The deal is you get a year in graduate school but it is at Fordham.  It is time for Fordham to treat this like a business.   
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2017, 04:03:07 pm »

 

Neubauer and Crawford are good coaches who coached up Pecora's players and turned around a moribund situation.  Ill take the coaches over whomever wants to jump ship.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 01:12:13 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 04:18:36 pm »

Or offer them but make it clear we are not releasing you if you graduate in 3 years.  The deal is you get a year in graduate school but it is at Fordham.  It is time for Fordham to treat this like a business.   

If they're going to treat basketball like a business, this isn't the place to start.
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 04:29:09 pm »

If they're going to treat basketball like a business, this isn't the place to start.

If you are treating a transaction like it is business then you love the other side to have other considerations. It creates opportunity and you will come out on top
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2017, 05:51:37 pm »

If one of my players ever went under a fake name on a message board and ripped me, he would probably get his ass kicked by his teammates.   

Neubauer and Crawford are good coaches who coached up Pecora's players and turned around a moribund situation.  Ill take the coaches over whomever wants to jump ship.

I do think they got as much as possible from the team this year given the talent. But I am concerned about all the defections so far. I think there is more here than meets the eyes. Just a gut feeling.
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2017, 06:03:03 pm »

I do think they got as much as possible from the team this year given the talent. But I am concerned about all the defections so far. I think there is more here than meets the eyes. Just a gut feeling.

You are likely correct.
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2017, 06:50:48 pm »

Hicks was one one of the few players not here over the summer, which coincided with Childs leaving.

As poster Cooljosmi wrote on 7/12:

Pekarek was back in Czech helping his dad with basketball camp.
Hicks and Ndiaye were TC. Hicks is not on campus. He is back in Pasadena.   Undecided
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2017, 07:24:41 pm »

Since Hicks did not play last season due to injury, would he still need to sit out a year if he transferred to a DI school? If yes, a transfer would not seem to make much sense. In that case, a transfer to a DII school would seem to make more sense. Also, coming off an injury, I can't see a DI school giving him a scholarship where he sits a year before he can play.

Ace is usually the expert on transfer rules so maybe he can clarify the transfer rule in this situation?

   
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2017, 08:04:38 pm »

Since Hicks did not play last season due to injury, would he still need to sit out a year if he transferred to a DI school? If yes, a transfer would not seem to make much sense. In that case, a transfer to a DII school would seem to make more sense. Also, coming off an injury, I can't see a DI school giving him a scholarship where he sits a year before he can play.

Ace is usually the expert on transfer rules so maybe he can clarify the transfer rule in this situation?

By rule he would have to sit if transferring to another DI school.
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2017, 08:19:29 pm »

By rule he would have to sit if transferring to another DI school.

Thank you. Then a transfer to DI makes little sense for him. And I can see other schools being leery with him coming off a serious injury. Unless there are other issues at play eg. academic, being recruited over. 
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2017, 08:28:05 pm »

The votes are creeping up and the blackball sentiment is catching up.  I voted to do it on a case by case basis but I certainly can understand the blackball issue.   
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2017, 08:38:21 am »

If they're going to treat basketball like a business, this isn't the place to start.

Wholeheartedly agree.  If this is going to be treated like a business, then start with the most obvious problem: facilities.  Upgrade them immediately and/or develop off-campus solutions. Clean house in the Athletic Department and develop a marketing program.

As for telling players who choose to graduate in 3 years that they cannot go to any graduate school except Fordham, besides being unenforceable, why limit it to just athletic scholarships?  Anyone who has a full academic scholarship cannot graduate early and go to a school other than Fordham.  Why should we lose a year's worth of their intellectual capital?
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 08:41:49 am »

If we are going to deny transfers and not allow graduate transfers are we going to practice what we preach and adopt a policy that we will no longer accept transfers and graduate transfers?
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2017, 08:41:58 am »


As for telling players who choose to graduate in 3 years that they cannot go to any graduate school except Fordham, besides being unenforceable, why limit it to just athletic scholarships?  Anyone who has a full academic scholarship cannot graduate early and go to a school other than Fordham.  Why should we lose a year's worth of their intellectual capital?

Can you please define a "full academic scholarship?"  Do those scholarships also include the ability to take extra courses and obtain a grad degree of the one scholarship? I honestly dont know if those benefits would be included.
 
It seems that Fordham is somewhat uniquely offering a deal that you can take extra classes, on the arm, and be in a position to graduate in 3 years. Seems like bad practice. Is it common for other schools to do this?   Or is Fordham accepting credits from some other schools that these players might be bringing with them?  Seems unlikely if Sengfelder came here at 17 y/o and Severe came out of  CTK.

We are not talking about the 5th yr. transfer rule, as in A's case. This is a different animal entirely. 

« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 09:05:36 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged

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