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Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?


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Question: Hardnett, Smith, Severe, Sengfelder, Anderson....who is next?
Yes. Draw a line in the sand. - 5 (10.4%)
Maybe. Case by case basis. - 19 (39.6%)
No. We would be blackballed if we did. - 24 (50%)
Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?  (Read 2510 times)
RickFC77
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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2017, 09:05:06 am »

"full academic scholarship?" - Tuition, room and board

I do not know if it includes summer school as well but I do know, as I did it myself, you can take an extra course every semester. So, even with without summer classes, it would not be too difficult to utilize AP credits and extra courses to knock off at least a semester if not a whole year.
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2017, 09:08:14 am »

And those extra courses cost money. Is that also a freebie under a standard academic ride?  Does a standard academic ride include a free graduate degree as well as undergrad if you cram it into 4 years?
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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2017, 09:22:54 am »

To the best of my knowledge a non-scholarship student pays for summer school courses by credit. I don't know if students on academic scholarships pay as well.
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Rich93
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2017, 09:31:56 am »

If we are going to deny transfers and not allow graduate transfers are we going to practice what we preach and adopt a policy that we will no longer accept transfers and graduate transfers?

Hell no.  It is time for Fordham to play hardball like the rest of college basketball.  Time to stop being the lovable losers.  wonder if some in the Fordham admin and some players want that attitude to keep going but our current coach is trying to change it and meeting resistance.   Also only three people say deny all releases most say case by case basis.  Let's say hypothetically that Anderson or his family had contact with Iona before ever asking for his release, denying his release would be justified. 
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« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2017, 09:33:52 am »

If we are going to deny transfers and not allow graduate transfers are we going to practice what we preach and adopt a policy that we will no longer accept transfers and graduate transfers?

Who said anything about denying a "transfer? "  Nobody. That doesnt even exist.

What you can do is simply enforce the rules of a scholarship and deny a "release" as posted in the thread title, which would require a player to sit for 2 years as opposed to 1 year.  Deny a transfer ? Where did you get that from? 

I also believe that if a release is given it can be limited to where a player can transfer. Didn't Hofstra prevent Chazz Williams from being released to Fordham with Pecora?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 10:15:40 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2017, 10:34:26 am »

There's a difference between denying a release and limiting one. Chazz Williams was blocked to Fordham, but went to UMass. Same with Halik Kanocevic, he went to St. Joe's. We had a list of schools both Severe and Jio were prohibited from transferring to -- typically A-10 schools and local schools.  And I'm sure our releases to CS and AA will contain some limitations as well.

But saying Fordham will deny releases outright, will limit a player's credits, will force you to stay on campus during summers and not let you study while you're there, and mandate a 4 year period of servitude -- no matter what --  would simply kill us on the recruiting trail.
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« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2017, 10:41:56 am »

Short answer to the question possed: "For many good reasons, you can't."
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« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2017, 10:58:36 am »

Per Hicks' Twitter:

P‏ @phicks0  11h11 hours ago
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 Gonna be crazy nxt year down in the BX #Comingsoon #Return
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“We didn’t get blown out of many games in the Atlantic 10. … I can see it coming.”

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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2017, 10:59:41 am »

Per Hicks' Twitter:

P‏ @phicks0  11h11 hours ago
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 Gonna be crazy nxt year down in the BX #Comingsoon #Return
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That's good news Ro....if it means he is staying......that could be a formidable guard rotation....but who knows?
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PeterMartin08
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« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2017, 11:00:23 am »

Per Hicks' Twitter:

P‏ @phicks0  11h11 hours ago
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 Gonna be crazy nxt year down in the BX #Comingsoon #Return
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nice.

As i detailed in a prior thread re: Hicks, he straight up dominated offensively over his final 10 games of the juco season. Instant offense, the shots will be there if he shows he can put the ball in at a comparable rate.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2017, 11:04:47 am »

.... and mandate a 4 year period of servitude -- no matter what --  would simply kill us on the recruiting trail.

Servitude? That's how you view a contract where one person agrees to play a sport in exchange for tuition, room, and board worth in excess of $60 K each year? Wow. Pity the poor indentured servants. Boo hoo.
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« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2017, 11:08:09 am »



But saying Fordham will deny releases outright, will limit a player's credits, will force you to stay on campus during summers and not let you study while you're there, and mandate a 4 year period of servitude -- no matter what --  would simply kill us on the recruiting trail.

Wow. You really want to go there?
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« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2017, 11:17:03 am »

I also founds Hicks to be very active in huddles and excited for his teammates. Seemed to be happy supporting the team. Excited to see what he can do. Like the Cali recruiting..
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« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2017, 11:29:25 am »

I wonder if he made that tweet because he was informed of this thread Grin
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« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2017, 11:42:35 am »

I wonder if he made that tweet because he was informed of this thread Grin

I hate to be cynical but maybe he tested the waters and did not see the grass greener. I would think he could graduate in May 2018 and be eligible to transfer with one year left. If even I can see what is shaping up with JC and Hicks after next season, you would think that Fordham can see it. But will they do anything to curtail it? Probably not.
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« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2017, 12:41:18 pm »

I hate to be cynical but maybe he tested the waters and did not see the grass greener. I would think he could graduate in May 2018 and be eligible to transfer with one year left. If even I can see what is shaping up with JC and Hicks after next season, you would think that Fordham can see it. But will they do anything to curtail it? Probably not.

Well, Fordham could try to run a better program. That might help.
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RickFC77
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« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2017, 01:38:38 pm »

Who said anything about denying a "transfer? "  Nobody. That doesnt even exist.

What you can do is simply enforce the rules of a scholarship and deny a "release" as posted in the thread title, which would require a player to sit for 2 years as opposed to 1 year.  Deny a transfer ? Where did you get that from? 

I also believe that if a release is given it can be limited to where a player can transfer. Didn't Hofstra prevent Chazz Williams from being released to Fordham with Pecora?

Denying the release and forcing the kid to sit out two years will be, in most cases, denying the transfer.  Be careful what you wish for, what will you do when the player says screw you, I won't play for you and gets to keep his scholarship.  Now you can have a scholarship tied up for 2-3 years not being used.
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2017, 01:40:20 pm »

Denying the release and forcing the kid to sit out two years will be, in most cases, denying the transfer.  Be careful what you wish for, what will you do when the player says screw you, I won't play for you and gets to keep his scholarship.  Now you can have a scholarship tied up for 2-3 years not being used.

It does not work that way.  If you choose not to play you lose your scholarship in which case you stay you pay and dont play.  Or you can choose to leave but you are sitting 2 years. 
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RickFC77
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« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2017, 02:35:57 pm »

It does not work that way.  If you choose not to play you lose your scholarship in which case you stay you pay and dont play.  Or you can choose to leave but you are sitting 2 years. 

I could be wrong but I thought earlier this school year the University announced that they would honor a student's athletic scholarship for all four years even if they no longer played.
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« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2017, 02:38:37 pm »

I am wrong, you have to continue to play:

Bronx, N.Y. (November 3, 2014) – Fordham University will offer four-year athletic scholarships to all scholarship student-athletes beginning with the incoming class of 2015 it was announced by Director of Athletics Dave Roach.  This new policy will replace the former one-year renewable scholarships.

"This new policy affirms Fordham University's support of its student-athletes," said Roach. "We are committed to providing our student-athletes with the best possible experience, both on and off the field. This decision, along with other such as the creation Fordham Leadership Academy, will help our student-athletes now and in the future."
 
All incoming freshmen for the class of 2019 will sign letters of intent that guarantee the student-athlete a scholarship for four years, provided the student-athlete continues to participate in the sport for which the grant is awarded and the student-athlete adheres to all eligibility requirements. The student-athlete must remain in good academic standing, and abide by all University regulations.

Fordham offers merit based scholarships in the following sports: baseball, men's basketball, women's basketball, football, women's rowing, men's soccer, women's soccer, softball, men's swimming and diving, women's swimming and diving, women's tennis, men's cross country/track & field, women's cross country/track & field, volleyball and water polo.
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2017, 03:37:26 pm »

HICKS UPDATE

Hicks video below, from his twitter feed

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/4770169/5771c315ed57ef3ed8822121

He loves to pull after crossing the ball back to his left handle. The turn-away following the shot isn't going to go over well in the A10. Good range. Prefers the left wing, clearly. Everything is power jab, cross, separation to get the ball into his left hand.

From the video, he's accustomed to playing in front of 237 people. He'll fit right in.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2017, 04:12:49 pm »

I could be wrong but I thought earlier this school year the University announced that they would honor a student's athletic scholarship for all four years even if they no longer played.

I believe it said they were four year scholarships but you had to remain on the team.  The way I read that is that you can't be run-off or cut from the team.  If the coach doesn't want you around you keep the scholarship as long as you come to practice and sit quietly on the end of the bench.
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2017, 10:17:15 pm »

Servitude? That's how you view a contract where one person agrees to play a sport in exchange for tuition, room, and board worth in excess of $60 K each year? Wow. Pity the poor indentured servants. Boo hoo.

Doesn't matter how I view it, or how you view it. It's how opposing coaches will be using those kinds of restrictions against us on the recruiting trail. They're offering pretty much the same cushy deal, they'll just tell prospects they don't put on the "golden handcuffs" the way Fordham does. No one likes to be in cuffs, even pretty ones in a plush setting.
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« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2017, 10:18:08 pm »

Doesn't matter how I view it, or how you view it. It's how opposing coaches will be using those kinds of restrictions against us on the recruiting trail. They're offering pretty much the same cushy deal, they'll just tell prospects they don't put on the "golden handcuffs" the way Fordham does. No one likes to be in cuffs, even pretty ones in a plush setting.

How did denying obrien his release work out for Martelli?  Did it stop him from putting together a tournament team with a first round NBA player?   Name the coach that has been hurt by denying a release.
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« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2017, 11:54:24 pm »

How did denying obrien his release work out for Martelli?  Did it stop him from putting together a tournament team with a first round NBA player?   Name the coach that has been hurt by denying a release.

1. Uh, Martelli?  That's the guy who's St. Joe's team lost 20 games this year, right? The guy who used to have the No. 1 team in the country and his pick of Philly area recruits. Except now he doesn't and Villanova and Temple pick Philly clean before he gets in the door. [Except now Penn State's started making inroads into Martelli's old haunts]. Nah, you're right. Clearly taking a hard line has enhanced Martelli's ability to land recruits. Not.

2. A coach ever hurt by denying a release? Hmm . . . let me see, there was this guy named Dereck Whittenburg. He had this point guard who wanted to transfer, only this school --Fordham, I think it was -- put their foot down, denied the transfer, and told the kid (Fontan, I think he was called) that if he wanted to transfer, he could pay his own way. So, instead of recruiting a replacement, this coach starts the next season with the reluctant returnee Fontan running the point. Team starts season 1-4, coach melts down, gets fired, the Fontan kid leaves the team. Kid's last game in a Ram uniform was coach's last game as a coach. Replacement coach, now left with reduced talent, goes 1-22 the rest of the way. A resounding success for coach, school and program, wouldn't you say?

3. UTEP coach Tim Floyd signed a kid from LA named Isaac Hamilton. Refused to give the kid a release. Kid transferred to UCLA, paid his first year, made a deep run with the Bruins in this year's NCAA tournament. UTEP, not so good.

So whether the kid stays, or goes, it usually doesn't work out good for the school denying the release.
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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2017, 12:02:59 am »

1. Uh, Martelli?  That's the guy who's St. Joe's team lost 20 games this year, right? The guy who used to have the No. 1 team in the country and his pick of Philly area recruits. Except now he doesn't and Villanova and Temple pick Philly clean before he gets in the door. [Except now Penn State's started making inroads into Martelli's old haunts]. Nah, you're right. Clearly taking a hard line has enhanced Martelli's ability to land recruits. Not.

2. A coach ever hurt by denying a release? Hmm . . . let me see, there was this guy named Dereck Whittenburg. He had this point guard who wanted to transfer, only this school --Fordham, I think it was -- put their foot down, denied the transfer, and told the kid (Fontan, I think he was called) that if he wanted to transfer, he could pay his own way. So, instead of recruiting a replacement, this coach starts the next season with the reluctant returnee Fontan running the point. Team starts season 1-4, coach melts down, gets fired, the Fontan kid leaves the team. Kid's last game in a Ram uniform was coach's last game as a coach. Replacement coach, now left with reduced talent, goes 1-22 the rest of the way. A resounding success for coach, school and program, wouldn't you say?

3. UTEP coach Tim Floyd signed a kid from LA named Isaac Hamilton. Refused to give the kid a release. Kid transferred to UCLA, paid his first year, made a deep run with the Bruins in this year's NCAA tournament. UTEP, not so good.

So whether the kid stays, or goes, it usually doesn't work out good for the school denying the release.

St. Joe's never had their pick of Philly area recruits.
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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2017, 12:09:15 am »

No one likes to be in cuffs, even pretty ones in a plush setting.

Hah! Speak for yourself. I'm guessing that you might have a pretty straitlaced view of life's not-so-simple pleasures.  Evil  Evil  Evil
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« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2017, 12:10:40 am »

St. Joe's never had their pick of Philly area recruits.

Jameer Nelson and Delonte West might have disagreed with you about that one.
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« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2017, 12:10:52 am »

Hah! Speak for yourself. I'm guessing that you might have a pretty straitlaced view of life's not-so-simple pleasures.  Evil  Evil  Evil

Ha!!!!!!
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« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2017, 07:54:07 am »

To be fair, Martelli in 2016: A10 champions, NCAA appearance, won a game and took 1 seed Oregon to the final seconds. Everybody can have a bad year like this one.
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