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Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?


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Question: Hardnett, Smith, Severe, Sengfelder, Anderson....who is next?
Yes. Draw a line in the sand. - 5 (10.4%)
Maybe. Case by case basis. - 19 (39.6%)
No. We would be blackballed if we did. - 24 (50%)
Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: Should Fordham Deny Releases for Transfers?  (Read 2516 times)
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« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2017, 08:58:48 am »

Jameer Nelson and Delonte West might have disagreed with you about that one.


Delonte West is from Maryland.
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« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2017, 09:12:46 am »

1. Uh, Martelli?  That's the guy who's St. Joe's team lost 20 games this year, right? The guy who used to have the No. 1 team in the country and his pick of Philly area recruits. Except now he doesn't and Villanova and Temple pick Philly clean before he gets in the door. [Except now Penn State's started making inroads into Martelli's old haunts]. Nah, you're right. Clearly taking a hard line has enhanced Martelli's ability to land recruits. Not.

2. A coach ever hurt by denying a release? Hmm . . . let me see, there was this guy named Dereck Whittenburg. He had this point guard who wanted to transfer, only this school --Fordham, I think it was -- put their foot down, denied the transfer, and told the kid (Fontan, I think he was called) that if he wanted to transfer, he could pay his own way. So, instead of recruiting a replacement, this coach starts the next season with the reluctant returnee Fontan running the point. Team starts season 1-4, coach melts down, gets fired, the Fontan kid leaves the team. Kid's last game in a Ram uniform was coach's last game as a coach. Replacement coach, now left with reduced talent, goes 1-22 the rest of the way. A resounding success for coach, school and program, wouldn't you say?

3. UTEP coach Tim Floyd signed a kid from LA named Isaac Hamilton. Refused to give the kid a release. Kid transferred to UCLA, paid his first year, made a deep run with the Bruins in this year's NCAA tournament. UTEP, not so good.

So whether the kid stays, or goes, it usually doesn't work out good for the school denying the release.

Do you watch the A-10 at all?  You think this year for SJU was about Obrien?  You don't think good players graduating and going pro along with injuries was the reason they struggled?  Players he recruited after he denied Obrien his release I might add. Which is the point the denial of a release does not hurt the program especially under some circumstances. They were number 1 in 2004 the Obrien denial happened in 2011 since 2011 SJU made the tournament twice in 14 and 16. Yeah the Obrien release killed them.  Roll Eyes

DW's failure had nothing to do with denying  Jio his release. There is simply no correlation.

Again UTEP lost a player then lost games, the denial of the release is the issue here not losing players.  Did Floyd get hurt by denying the release or did the  OJ Mayo incident at USC have an effect?   Do you have any knowledge of the reasons for the denial?   Also did Hamilton ever suit up for UTEP or did he try to get out of his LOI a month before the school year started?  Do some research.  
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:01:22 am by Rich93 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2017, 09:18:50 am »

DW had melted down the year before .....the only guy who couldnt figure that out was Frank....
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« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2017, 09:20:00 am »

DW had melted down the year before .....the only guy who couldnt figure that out was Frank....

And apparently John because he thinks denying Jio's  release led to his downfall.  You can't make this nonsense up.  You just can't. 
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« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2017, 09:45:07 am »

The were 3-25 with Fontan the year before he asked for the release.
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« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2017, 09:52:56 am »

DW had melted down the year before .....the only guy who couldnt figure that out was Frank....

What's unfortunate is that no one came forward. I was 19, and knew better. The behavior was bizarre and abusive. There was a Daily News writer that wanted me to come forward, but I declined to go on record. It was only a matter of time before he self-destructed, but it shouldn't have come to that.
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« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2017, 09:53:27 am »

The were 3-25 with Fontan the year before he asked for the release.

Stop with the facts.  
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« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2017, 09:55:27 am »

What's unfortunate is that no one came forward. I was 19, and knew better. The behavior was bizarre and abusive. There was a Daily News writer that wanted me to come forward, but I declined to go on record. It was only a matter of time before he self-destructed, but it shouldn't have come to that.

Nobody needed to come forward Peter....it was plainly obvious to anyone with a brain stem that the guy had lost it...and it does happen as coaching burnout in this profession.....the only guy who couldnt figure it out , unfortunately, was the AD...

Suggesting that Jio's being denied a transfer after that year,  a 3-25 record, had anything to do with it is preposterous.
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« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2017, 09:56:37 am »

Jameer Nelson and Delonte West might have disagreed with you about that one.

As 85 mentioned, West is from the DC/MD area. As for Nelson, he actually was not that highly touted out of high school. Not sure he had offers from the other Philly area schools.
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« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2017, 10:10:43 am »

As 85 mentioned, West is from the DC/MD area. As for Nelson, he actually was not that highly touted out of high school. Not sure he had offers from the other Philly area schools.

Also if Martelli had the pick of recruits before Obrien why did they only make the tournament in 2008 after that great team that was ranked 1 in 2004?   05 06 07 09 10 11 no tournament appearances for the program that had its pick of Philly talent?   I think not. 
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« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2017, 10:25:26 am »

One last example of how clueless john's post is: saying Temple now picks philly clean as if that is linked to Obrien is ridiculous. Since 2011 Temple made the tournament 3 times, SJU 2 times. Not exactly dominating picking philly clean after Obrien.  Temple really started surging in 2008  when they went on a 5 year tournament appearance run.  Before then they had a 7 year drought, did Martelli deny a release in 2007 that we missed leading to Temple resurgence or did hiring Fran Dunphy help just a little?   
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« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2017, 10:36:01 am »

One last example of how clueless john's post is: saying Temple now picks philly clean as if that is linked to Obrien is ridiculous. Since 2011 Temple made the tournament 3 times, SJU 2 times. Not exactly dominating picking philly clean after Obrien.  Temple really started surging in 2008  when they went on a 5 year tournament appearance run.  Before then they had a 7 year drought, did Martelli deny a release in 2007 that we missed leading to Temple resurgence or did hiring Fran Dunphy help just a little?   

According to their roster they have only one (1) player from Philly. 2 others from PA who appear to be unrecruited walk-ons and one (1) kid from suburbs in PA via Ghana.

http://owlsports.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

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« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2017, 10:38:48 am »

According to their roster they have only one (1) player from Philly. 2 others from PA who appear to be unrecruited walk-ons and one (1) kid from suburbs in PA via Ghana.

http://owlsports.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball



PICKING PHILLY CLEAN!!
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« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2017, 12:19:00 pm »

Nobody needed to come forward Peter....it was plainly obvious to anyone with a brain stem that the guy had lost it...and it does happen as coaching burnout in this profession.....the only guy who couldnt figure it out , unfortunately, was the AD...

Suggesting that Jio's being denied a transfer after that year,  a 3-25 record, had anything to do with it is preposterous.

The AD that cried when he let him go even though he signal handily submarined his most important program.
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« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2017, 09:01:53 am »

Ok shutting down the poll, nearly dead even.

My personal view, consider denying releases to players who were given the chance to accelerate and graduate in 3 years. For all we know maybe Severe was a mutual decision between coach and player but Sengfelder, I dont think so. JC next year?

5th year guys who for whom we sought a redshirt, I think we have to let them walk, especially if we are signing 5th year seniors . We now are in men's hoops and have been for some time in women's hoops. Fair is fair.
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« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2017, 09:15:13 am »

One point, if the kid played by the rules it's tough to punish them on the way out.

If Fordham is giving "4 year scholarships" it should be made clear (in the future) at the time of signing that there are restrictions in terms of credits per year, etc. For instance if the player is able to take an accelerated course load and graduate "early" then they can start a graduate degree and keep playing at Fordham.  If they want to do three years and transfer someplace else to play, there will be restrictions in that regard.

For JC and Sengfelder (and maybe others), they got approval from the program for those summer courses so Fordham had to know that there was the chance they would go elsewhere once they got the undergrad degree
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« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2017, 09:27:18 am »

Agreed.  If you read Gaitleys article, its clearly a recruiting strategy.

Under Title IX, if it is being offered by the women's program, then equal or similar benefits likely would have to offered to the men's program, in my view. Care to chime in legally?

Either way I think its bad policy and its not the intention of an athletic scholarship to offer a 2 for 1 with a grad degree. It doesnt seem like anyone else is doing this but I could be wrong.  Are any other schools graduating their players in 3 years ( men or women ) ?
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« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2017, 07:55:34 pm »

Jay Bilas on the transfer rule:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19613901/cameron-johnson-exit-pittsburgh-just-latest-example-ncaa-transfer-rule-mess
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« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2017, 09:22:54 pm »

Bilas hit it out of the park. Kids should be able to transfer, no restrictions.  The arguements against it are a matter of convenience for the schools.
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« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2017, 08:30:11 am »

Its a two way street. If you want to allow wide open transferring, then the schools should be allowed to go back to 1 year schollies and have zero restrictions on not renewing a scholarship.
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« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2017, 08:34:38 am »

Most schools have one year scholarships, no? 
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« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2017, 08:40:02 am »

There are restrictions on denying a renewal. If you want to give players the freedom to transfer at will with no restrictions, then it has to go the other way as well. If a school wants to cut a player and not re-up the next year, then that should be the flip side, in my opinion. No restrictions for the school either.  But I think Bilas is way off base. His points might make sense for the bigger schools turning a profit but they can crush the mid majors. Mid majors are not turning profits on basketball. Fordham is not turning a profit on basketball. Guys like Bilas never take into account that its not all Duke and North Carolina.....its Iona, St. Peters, Lafayette, and hundreds of mid majors that are being destroyed by this.

But again, more to previous posts that there are too many schools playing D1 basketball.  Time for 1 A  and 1 AA with different rules.
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« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2017, 08:51:19 am »

Bilas hit it out of the park. Kids should be able to transfer, no restrictions.  The arguements against it are a matter of convenience for the schools.

Agree. Assistant Coaches, Head Coaches, AD's and their staff and even the schools themselves can move from one school to another or one conference to another but heaven forbid some kid ask to do the same and he is jeopardizing the entire NCAA basketball system.
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« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2017, 09:55:00 am »



But again, more to previous posts that there are too many schools playing D1 basketball.  Time for 1 A  and 1 AA with different rules.

100 percent agree. 
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« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2017, 09:58:30 am »

Agree. Assistant Coaches, Head Coaches, AD's and their staff and even the schools themselves can move from one school to another or one conference to another but heaven forbid some kid ask to do the same and he is jeopardizing the entire NCAA basketball system.

I think that for a school like Fordham, replacing a transfer is much more difficult than for a school like Duke, UNC, Kentucky and the like. That has been proven this off-season. Coaches and staff seem much more easily replaced in my opinion.
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« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2017, 11:24:32 am »

100 percent agree. 
1A and 1AA in Men's basketball would kill the NCAA tournament. That's the big cash cow.
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« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2017, 11:45:10 am »

Open transferring with no restrictions would ruin the game.  You could have players jumping ship mid season,  it would be utter chaos. And the mid majors would be destroyed and hence, the tournament's appeal....imagine players hedging bets and leaving in December for another team in  conference? It would be a disaster.

Bilas is looking at this through a very narrow window, like the ACC and that's all.   
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« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2017, 12:04:35 pm »

1A and 1AA in Men's basketball would kill the NCAA tournament. That's the big cash cow.
Sadly, the NCAA Tournament will hardly feel the loss of the mid and low-majors.  Tourny is becoming more elite every year, dominated by the Power conferences and a group of schools calling themselves The Big East.  Eventually the Power 5 may have their own post season tourny moving the NCAA one step closer to obsolete and then extinct.  Smaller schools aren't the ones driving t.v. viewership, ticket and merchandise sales, etc.
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« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2017, 12:07:33 pm »

Open transferring with no restrictions would ruin the game.  You could have players jumping ship mid season,  it would be utter chaos. And the mid majors would be destroyed and hence, the tournament's appeal....imagine players hedging bets and leaving in December for another team in  conference? It would be a disaster.

Bilas is looking at this through a very narrow window, like the ACC and that's all.  

He actually mentioned eliminating mid-year transfers, unless I read incorrectly.
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« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2017, 12:29:00 pm »

He actually mentioned eliminating mid-year transfers, unless I read incorrectly.

That would break 85's heart!! What's next, no walk-ons? Evil
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