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The 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 Rhode Island Rams


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Author Topic: The 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 Rhode Island Rams  (Read 1095 times)
BuckeyeRAM
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« on: April 07, 2017, 12:41:28 am »

I really believe the 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 Rhode Island Rams that made the NCAA Tournament and who should have beaten Oregon in the tournament to go to the Sweet 16. Oregon made the Final 4 and should have beaten North Carolina (77-76 loss) to advance to the NCAA Finals against Gonzaga. Rhode Island was the only team in the tournament that was blowing Oregon out by double digit leads most of the 2nd Half of that game before losing the lead in the last 40 seconds of the game. Who knows, if Rhode Island would have beaten Oregon maybe they would have been the team (not UNC) that would have played Gonzaga in the NCAA Finals.

I have seen the posts that say both Christian Sengfelder and Antoine Anderson have graduated and are leaving Fordham to play basketball at another school and I am really disappointed by this as a Fordham Fan! Although it is their choice to leave Fordham and to play at another school, I wish they knew how good Fordham's chances would have been next year to making the NCAA Tournament and being this years Rhode Island. I can understand that CS and AA want to play for a higher profile school that has a good chance of making next year's NCAA Tournament so they can get better exposure to help their future basketball careers. I get that but I really feel like CS and AA are underestimating the incredible progress that Fordham has made over the last 2 years and how good their chances would have been next year to winning the A-10 and to making the NCAA Tournament, and to at least finishing in the Top 2-3 in the A-10 with Rhode Island and St. Bonaventure. I wish them well but their decision to leave Fordham may backfire on them because there is no guarantee that the schools they transfer to will make the Tournament. I feel like CS and AA are wasting all of their hard work over the last 3 years (by leaving) to put Fordham and themselves in the position to make the NCAA Tournament and to win the A-10 next year and to finally get the national exposure/recognition that they/Fordham are both looking for. Hopefully Joe Chartouny will stay and play for Fordham next year because we really need him to stay.

I know some people on the chat line may think I am being overly optimistic, but here's why I believe the 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 NCAA Tournament Rhode Island Rams if CS and AA would have stayed at Fordham. Lets look at the 2015-16 Rhode Island team. R.I. went 17-15 overall and 9-9 in the A-10 last season (2015-16) but only a 2-7 A-10 road record and finished in 7th place only 1 game ahead of Fordham who came in 8th place and who had a 17-14 overall record and an 8-10 A-10 record including a 3-6 A-10 road record - better than R.I.'s. Fordham also beat R.I. at home last season. Last year's R.I. team had some key injuries like this year's Fordham team did.

Let's compare last year's R.I. Team with this year's Fordham team. Last season, R.I. lost to UMass twice while Fordham won at UMass this season and beat UMass twice last season, R.I. got blown out to VCU last season while this year's Fordham team beat VCU, R.I. got blown out at Davidson last season while this year's Fordham team won at Davidson. Also, Fordham won at Rhode Island this season 53-43 and has beaten R.I. 2 games in a row. Fordham's A-10 Road record this season was 5-4 and R.I.'s A-10 Road record last season was 2-7. Also, Fordham beat CIT Champion St. Peters (23-13) this year 63-41 which was a great win by Fordham! That was St. Peters worst loss by far all season and did you guys know that St. Peters only lost at nationally ranked Notre Dame 63-55 and only lost at Maryland 66-56 while Fordham beat St. Peters by 22 points. St. Peters scoring defense was ranked 4th nationally only given up 60.8 points a game. Also, Fordham only lost to (27-9) UT Arlington 67-63 and had their chances to win that game and UTA made the NIT Quarter Finals and finished #44 in the Final RPI. UTA won at #12 St. Mary's 65-51 this season and St. Mary's beat VCU in the Tournament, and also won at Dayton 61-57 - the same margin that they won at Fordham. This shows how competitive Fordham (2-2) was against 4 teams that they played that were ranked in the Final RPI Top #44. Fordham was only down 66-64 to Dayton with 3 minutes in that game and could have won that game as well. Fordham was very close to going 4-0 against 4 Final RPI Top 44 teams.

After comparing Fordham's impressive 5-4 A-10 road record this season including great quality wins at R.I., at Davidson, and VCU at home compared to last season's R.I. team that went 2-7 in the A-10 on the road and that had no quality wins and combine that with the fact that VCU, Dayton, GW, Umass, and Duquesne who just lost their coaches and best players as well as all the other A-10 teams that lost a lot of their best players (Rhode Island, Richmond, George Mason, Davidson, LaSalle, etc.) - why couldn't a healthy/injury free 2017-18 Fordham team which would have returned more starters (4 - CS, AA, JC, and Slanina) than any other 2017-18 A-10 Team - if CS and AA would have returned along with JC, Slanina, Havsa, Bunting, Ohams, and Hicks - be this year's NCAA Tournament and A-10 Champions R.I. Rams.
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2017, 09:43:37 am »

Umm, we were 4-8 over our last 12 games with three of the wins against DUQ (14th), SJU (13th) and SLU (11th).
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2017, 09:48:34 am »

I have to agree with Buckeye. If the Rams were to stay healthy and if they brought in 2 decent new players, next year could have been a very good one.
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2017, 02:40:13 pm »

I think we had a chance to be quite good next year.  But understand Rhode Island lost Martin for part of last year and Matthews for all of it.  Their 2 best players.  Although Martin was there for most of the year and they weren't playing great even with him.  But Matthews missed the whole year.  They were back this year. Rhodey is a very athletic team.  Their ceiling was just higher than Fordham's.

That said, Fordham had a great win against Rhodey this year.  Rhodey's last loss until Oregon. And I think they had a chance to be quite good next year.  NCAAs would have been a stretch but I'd loved to have seen what they could do with CS and AA back, too.

And given how that finals went down, I think a healthy Fordham could have even given Gonzaga a good game if they came out like they did in the VCU, Rhode Island and Davidson wins.  Ooof, Gonzaga had an ugly game.  As did UNC.  And I don't think it was all UNC.  Their Big Pole was just missing chippies.  And UNC was 4-27 from 3.  Even Fordham can do that!  Gonzaga even rebounded with the Heels, the best offensive rebounding team in the country.  But it was 14 TOs to only 4 for UNC.  The Zags couldn't deal with the Heels length on the perimeter.  jackson and Pinson have some long ass arms.  I think maybe the Rams could turn over the Zags, too.  Wink
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2017, 08:33:09 pm »

When you put two "should haves" in your first couple of sentences, that kind of says it all. Maybe Oregon was looking past Rhody - who knows? In the end it's only the final score that matters.

I'm up here in Bonaland where years ago they actually made a film about how they "should have" won the national championship years ago. Well, guess what? You didn't.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 10:51:05 am »

I think we'd have been very good next year as well. As of now, we're counting on a lot of unproven players for next season, even assuming JC comes back, which I hope he does.

A lot depends on JN's recruiting haul, about which little has been said. Even if CS and AA were coming back, I know coach felt the need for this team to become more athletic. The assistants have been fanning the country and the globe for talent. The "oppo" and negative recruiting by conference and local rivals has been brutal. The goal for next season remains the same -- winning conference and overall records, and a shot at the postseason. Fingers crossed.
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 11:16:31 am »

In short, talent is interchangeable. Chemistry is not. What may have lacked in talent with an AA/CS team, made up for it in chemistry/experience together. I don't think next year's team would have been "great" - but 'Good' would have worked. 16-17 wins and an NIT appearance would have been very possible.

If you add the right 2-3 guys, next season (and beyond) won't necessarily be lost.

If you add the wrong 2-3 guys, next season (and beyond) could bury the JN program into the basement.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 11:54:51 am »

When you put two "should haves" in your first couple of sentences, that kind of says it all. Maybe Oregon was looking past Rhody - who knows? In the end it's only the final score that matters.

I'm up here in Bonaland where years ago they actually made a film about how they "should have" won the national championship years ago. Well, guess what? You didn't.

reminds me of the great Fordham "might have " after Howard Porter was declared ineligible after Villanova beat us in the NCAA ( in the unmentionable season ) 
no film was made but many of us felt we "might have" played UCLA in the finals if he had been declared ineligible prior to the game
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2017, 02:24:10 pm »

"If the Queen had balls she would be king" or

"If ifs and butts were candy and nuts then everyday would be Christmas
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2017, 06:33:37 pm »

reminds me of the great Fordham "might have " after Howard Porter was declared ineligible after Villanova beat us in the NCAA ( in the unmentionable season ) 
no film was made but many of us felt we "might have" played UCLA in the finals if he had been declared ineligible prior to the game

Don't go there. Please. I'm begging you.
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2017, 08:08:27 pm »

I think we'd have been very good next year as well. As of now, we're counting on a lot of unproven players for next season, even assuming JC comes back, which I hope he does.

A lot depends on JN's recruiting haul, about which little has been said. Even if CS and AA were coming back, I know coach felt the need for this team to become more athletic. The assistants have been fanning the country and the globe for talent. The "oppo" and negative recruiting by conference and local rivals has been brutal. The goal for next season remains the same -- winning conference and overall records, and a shot at the postseason. Fingers crossed.

Not sure I follow this logic. We would have been counting on a lot of unproven players even if CS and AA stayed. At least those like you that were absolutely sure we would be better next year 8 months before the season started and before we had signed any recruit. Little has been said about recruiting because we have no commitments, just a bunch of players we have offered. The negative recruiting as you reference happens all the time. Problem is we have little to combat this because our coach has disappeared. Maybe an appearance on FUV would have at least made those loyal to the program breathe a bit easier.  Right now the situation is a mess and the only thing that will help is getting some good talent here. I am not as optimistic being this late in the season and not one commitment. I hope I am wrong. Finally you can talk all you want about a winning conference and overall record but we need to put a team together first.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 10:09:20 pm »

For those interested Sengfelder supposedly visited Boise state.
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2017, 10:17:08 pm »

Not sure I follow this logic. We would have been counting on a lot of unproven players even if CS and AA stayed. At least those like you that were absolutely sure we would be better next year 8 months before the season started and before we had signed any recruit. Little has been said about recruiting because we have no commitments, just a bunch of players we have offered. The negative recruiting as you reference happens all the time. Problem is we have little to combat this because our coach has disappeared. Maybe an appearance on FUV would have at least made those loyal to the program breathe a bit easier.  Right now the situation is a mess and the only thing that will help is getting some good talent here. I am not as optimistic being this late in the season and not one commitment. I hope I am wrong. Finally you can talk all you want about a winning conference and overall record but we need to put a team together first.

If CS and AA had stayed, we'd have returned about 3500 points of career scoring, 4/5 of our starting lineup, and had 4 players returning from injury. In a league where upperclassmen tend to deliver you to the top of the standings, that would have been no small thing. Losing them certainly cuts down the optimism for next year. That being said, as many have noticed, those two players are not completely irreplaceable. The right JUCO recruit and 5th year transfer could get us back in the game. JN has not been silent, he and the staff have been deadly serious in hitting the recruiting trail. I expect the plan is to assemble the entire recruiting class and announce it at once. Let's wait and see.
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2017, 10:26:07 pm »

For those interested Sengfelder supposedly visited Boise state.

They have a 6-11 center I believe CS knows from the German National Team.
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2017, 08:22:24 am »

They have a 6-11 center I believe CS knows from the German National Team.

Well, the mountains there are more like his home
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2017, 10:19:35 am »

Could be the intriguing masters in raptor biology.
https://graduatecollege.boisestate.edu/programs2/raptor-biology-2/

They appear to have some unique grad programs.

Or perhaps the abundance of potatoes, its about the Bratkaroffein?
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2017, 10:41:22 am »

Well, the mountains there are more like his home

Well, Leverkusen's actually pretty flat, sitting on the banks of the Rhine at an elevation of about 120 feet above sea level. Leverkusen-New York-Boise. Interesting progression.
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 12:38:50 pm »

If CS and AA had stayed, we'd have returned about 3500 points of career scoring, 4/5 of our starting lineup, and had 4 players returning from injury. In a league where upperclassmen tend to deliver you to the top of the standings, that would have been no small thing. Losing them certainly cuts down the optimism for next year. That being said, as many have noticed, those two players are not completely irreplaceable. The right JUCO recruit and 5th year transfer could get us back in the game. JN has not been silent, he and the staff have been deadly serious in hitting the recruiting trail. I expect the plan is to assemble the entire recruiting class and announce it at once. Let's wait and see.

I think we are all happy they are deadly serious hitting the recruiting trail but that should happen every year. Again with the 4 injured players. Zarkovic should be a role player not someone getting major minutes. Pekarek in my mind falls into the unproven or inconsistent category. Based on what he has done the first 2 years still needs to prove he can consistently perform. Slanina showed promise but needs to take a step up and Hicks is unproven at this level. IMO unlike others I do think CS and AA are big losses but even if they had come back and even if some of the others continue to show promise, it was no slam dunk we would have been that much better or at least what this thread contends. IMO if we get the right JUCo and a 5th year transfer it kind of gets us back to where we would have been if CS and AA had stayed.
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2017, 12:50:45 pm »

Im in the Greenwood camp, where the only hard to replace aspect of CS/AA lose -is AA's defense. We can find a 40% 3 point shooter and a guy who can average 10-12 points a game with above average athleticism. Maybe Hicks is that guy. I thought Slanina looked very promising and should be better this year with some game time under his belt. Hopefully recruiting is going well.
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2017, 01:21:35 pm »

. . . We can find a 40% 3 point shooter and a guy who can average 10-12 points a game with above average athleticism. . . .

Really? Where?  Let Ali Ton know immediately!
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2017, 01:41:15 pm »

Not sure I follow this logic. We would have been counting on a lot of unproven players even if CS and AA stayed. At least those like you that were absolutely sure we would be better next year 8 months before the season started and before we had signed any recruit. Little has been said about recruiting because we have no commitments, just a bunch of players we have offered. The negative recruiting as you reference happens all the time. Problem is we have little to combat this because our coach has disappeared. Maybe an appearance on FUV would have at least made those loyal to the program breathe a bit easier.  Right now the situation is a mess and the only thing that will help is getting some good talent here. I am not as optimistic being this late in the season and not one commitment. I hope I am wrong. Finally you can talk all you want about a winning conference and overall record but we need to put a team together first.

The spring signing period starts April 12 and goes to May 17.  We will start finding out soon.
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 03:13:35 pm »

I really believe the 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 Rhode Island Rams that made the NCAA Tournament and who should have beaten Oregon in the tournament to go to the Sweet 16. Oregon made the Final 4 and should have beaten North Carolina (77-76 loss) to advance to the NCAA Finals against Gonzaga. Rhode Island was the only team in the tournament that was blowing Oregon out by double digit leads most of the 2nd Half of that game before losing the lead in the last 40 seconds of the game. Who knows, if Rhode Island would have beaten Oregon maybe they would have been the team (not UNC) that would have played Gonzaga in the NCAA Finals.

I have seen the posts that say both Christian Sengfelder and Antoine Anderson have graduated and are leaving Fordham to play basketball at another school and I am really disappointed by this as a Fordham Fan! Although it is their choice to leave Fordham and to play at another school, I wish they knew how good Fordham's chances would have been next year to making the NCAA Tournament and being this years Rhode Island. I can understand that CS and AA want to play for a higher profile school that has a good chance of making next year's NCAA Tournament so they can get better exposure to help their future basketball careers. I get that but I really feel like CS and AA are underestimating the incredible progress that Fordham has made over the last 2 years and how good their chances would have been next year to winning the A-10 and to making the NCAA Tournament, and to at least finishing in the Top 2-3 in the A-10 with Rhode Island and St. Bonaventure. I wish them well but their decision to leave Fordham may backfire on them because there is no guarantee that the schools they transfer to will make the Tournament. I feel like CS and AA are wasting all of their hard work over the last 3 years (by leaving) to put Fordham and themselves in the position to make the NCAA Tournament and to win the A-10 next year and to finally get the national exposure/recognition that they/Fordham are both looking for. Hopefully Joe Chartouny will stay and play for Fordham next year because we really need him to stay.

I know some people on the chat line may think I am being overly optimistic, but here's why I believe the 2017-18 Fordham Rams could have been the 2016-17 NCAA Tournament Rhode Island Rams if CS and AA would have stayed at Fordham. Lets look at the 2015-16 Rhode Island team. R.I. went 17-15 overall and 9-9 in the A-10 last season (2015-16) but only a 2-7 A-10 road record and finished in 7th place only 1 game ahead of Fordham who came in 8th place and who had a 17-14 overall record and an 8-10 A-10 record including a 3-6 A-10 road record - better than R.I.'s. Fordham also beat R.I. at home last season. Last year's R.I. team had some key injuries like this year's Fordham team did.

Let's compare last year's R.I. Team with this year's Fordham team. Last season, R.I. lost to UMass twice while Fordham won at UMass this season and beat UMass twice last season, R.I. got blown out to VCU last season while this year's Fordham team beat VCU, R.I. got blown out at Davidson last season while this year's Fordham team won at Davidson. Also, Fordham won at Rhode Island this season 53-43 and has beaten R.I. 2 games in a row. Fordham's A-10 Road record this season was 5-4 and R.I.'s A-10 Road record last season was 2-7. Also, Fordham beat CIT Champion St. Peters (23-13) this year 63-41 which was a great win by Fordham! That was St. Peters worst loss by far all season and did you guys know that St. Peters only lost at nationally ranked Notre Dame 63-55 and only lost at Maryland 66-56 while Fordham beat St. Peters by 22 points. St. Peters scoring defense was ranked 4th nationally only given up 60.8 points a game. Also, Fordham only lost to (27-9) UT Arlington 67-63 and had their chances to win that game and UTA made the NIT Quarter Finals and finished #44 in the Final RPI. UTA won at #12 St. Mary's 65-51 this season and St. Mary's beat VCU in the Tournament, and also won at Dayton 61-57 - the same margin that they won at Fordham. This shows how competitive Fordham (2-2) was against 4 teams that they played that were ranked in the Final RPI Top #44. Fordham was only down 66-64 to Dayton with 3 minutes in that game and could have won that game as well. Fordham was very close to going 4-0 against 4 Final RPI Top 44 teams.

After comparing Fordham's impressive 5-4 A-10 road record this season including great quality wins at R.I., at Davidson, and VCU at home compared to last season's R.I. team that went 2-7 in the A-10 on the road and that had no quality wins and combine that with the fact that VCU, Dayton, GW, Umass, and Duquesne who just lost their coaches and best players as well as all the other A-10 teams that lost a lot of their best players (Rhode Island, Richmond, George Mason, Davidson, LaSalle, etc.) - why couldn't a healthy/injury free 2017-18 Fordham team which would have returned more starters (4 - CS, AA, JC, and Slanina) than any other 2017-18 A-10 Team - if CS and AA would have returned along with JC, Slanina, Havsa, Bunting, Ohams, and Hicks - be this year's NCAA Tournament and A-10 Champions R.I. Rams.

Please, someone alert me when a conclusive, objective answer on this speculation is arrived at.
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2017, 05:50:04 pm »

It's the off season. Welcome to the Twilight Zone.  Evil
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