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2017-18 Out Of Conference Schedule


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Rich93
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« on: April 18, 2017, 08:13:51 am »

We will play at Rutgers this year. 

Return games:

Harvard home
ETSU home
Manhattan home


Saint Johns may be  off the schedule completely. 
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 05:42:50 pm »

I am actually very curious as to what our OOC schedule looks like . I heard that , although the A-10 cannot have a say in it , they expressed their displeasure with  last season's line-up. Hard to believe we were 5-7. Can't wait for another showdown with Lipscomb.
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 09:46:14 pm »

I find that hard to believe. We win our games and the A10 has nothing to complain about.
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 10:16:10 pm »

Lipscomb won 20 last year, just saying.
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 07:38:06 am »

I am actually very curious as to what our OOC schedule looks like . I heard that , although the A-10 cannot have a say in it , they expressed their displeasure with  last season's line-up. Hard to believe we were 5-7. Can't wait for another showdown with Lipscomb.

when and how did the A-10 express displeasure with our A-10 schedule?
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 11:30:42 am »

I think we've been over this.  Fordham's OOC schedule was appropriate for where it was (talking strength, not necessarily regional or "name" match-ups or timing, etc., which also drew complaints).

I find it hard to believe the A-10 would complain.  Five A-10 schools had easier OOC schedules than Fordham per Kenpom.  Fordham's OOC rank was 244 (Fordham itself ranked 202).  And Syracuse always has a weak OOC even with some big time games salted in.  Their OOC was 248, lower than Fordham's.  I doubt the Big east or now ACC ever complained.

Duquesne's OOC was ranked 345 (it ranked 224).  UMass OOC was 289.  Saint Louis 298.  The Bonnies 281.  George Mason 259. 

GW was at 207, Richmond 214.  Given their ranks well below weight class.  Then we start getting into tougher schedules.  La Salle 124 was clearly above its weight class.   Sain Joseph's 64.  Dayton 77.  davidson 98.  Rhodey 113.  VCU 128.  Most teams have weaker schedules than their rank.  Rhode Island was ranked in the top 25 and ended as Kenpom 34.  Their opponents are 77 spots lower, Fordham's 42 spots lower.  The Bonnie's were ranked 180 spots higher than their average OOC opponent.

You can't always tell how strong your slate will be.  This year's OOC was stronger than last year's, which was ranked 350.  The second worst in all D-1.

I someone points out Lipscomb won 20 games.  Their kenpom rank was 165.  Saint Peter's was 95.  UTA 75.  St. John's 99.  Rutgers 135.  East Tennessee 67. 

Fordham was 4-2 against lower ranked teams (although Rider was actually ranked fairly close to Fordham, and NYIT isn't Div-I) and 2-5 against higher ranked teams in OOC.  The Manhattan and Sacred Heart losses were the bad losses. 

Kenpom isn't the be all and end all.  He doesn't distinguish between D-1 or D-II games and uses scoring margin, which is fine, but Lipscomb beat the crap out of a few non-D-I teams.  Piedmont, Sewanee and Fisk.  They also beat Missouri on the road.  And they beat Florida Gulf Coast.   

All in all Fordham's OOC strength was fair for where the team was.  The team was a little worse than expected, and no doubt Sacred Heart and Manhattan were bad losses.  Manhattan was of course a road traditional rivalry game.  It's the losses more than the schedule itself.  Duquesne lost to Tennessee-Martin, UMBC and Robert Morris, none quite as bad as the Sacred Heart, but not exactly murderer's row.  The Bonnie's lost to Little Rock, Kenpom 245.  Teams schedule some cupcakes and upsets happen.



   
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 11:37:03 am »

I am actually very curious as to what our OOC schedule looks like . I heard that , although the A-10 cannot have a say in it , they expressed their displeasure with  last season's line-up. Hard to believe we were 5-7. Can't wait for another showdown with Lipscomb.

Did you hear that they expressed displeasure with the 5 other schools that had weaker schedules? Where does one here something like this? I'm curious.
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 11:48:12 am »

I, and others who attend games, are over the cupcake no-name teams we play. One or two fine, you need that at the very beginning of the season, but we need games that will challenge us and also that will draw interest for people to come watch.
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 11:56:19 am »

I, and others who attend games, are over the cupcake no-name teams we play. One or two fine, you need that at the very beginning of the season, but we need games that will challenge us and also that will draw interest for people to come watch.

It's a bit of Catch-22.

Games that will challenge us and also draw interest can often lead to very poor OOC records and subsequently to lack of interest b/c we are always getting beat. Is getting 500 to 1000 more people in the stands going to make us a better program? I think that getting some winning way going is more important, then you can upgrade your schedule as you progress. I thought next year would have been a good year for a slight upgrade, but I do not feel that way anymore due to the recent developments.
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2017, 12:07:35 pm »

I believe that our OOC schedule needs to reflect first and foremost where we are as a program each year and over the past few seasons and likely next season we need to be able to rack up some wins heading into the A10 schedule

That could well mean that we continue to  play games against teams that do not get the fan base excited, but until we improve we will not be booking games against top notch teams unless we want to run the risk of losing, potentially badly

Could we play weaker teams that generate more interest,  maybe, but who would those teams be?  Local teams possibly but does anyone care about lower conference teams like LIU or FDU? We barely fill the gym when we play supposed long term rivals like Manhattan

Would we or should we play schools in areas where we want to recruit?  With the changes in recruiting and transfers it seems that that old traditional logic has no value

This is a tough question for a struggling program to answer
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 12:10:08 pm »

It's a bit of Catch-22.

Games that will challenge us and also draw interest can often lead to very poor OOC records and subsequently to lack of interest b/c we are always getting beat. Is getting 500 to 1000 more people in the stands going to make us a better program? I think that getting some winning way going is more important, then you can upgrade your schedule as you progress. I thought next year would have been a good year for a slight upgrade, but I do not feel that way anymore due to the recent developments.

Agreed.  And some casual fans have no idea who cupcakes are, anyway.  East Tennessee and Texas Arlington are top 75 Kenpom teams but folks around here probably think Iona and Hofstra are better.  Not that I'd mind some games with teams like that, or Georgetown, Notre Dame.  You still need some cupcakes now and then.  
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 12:22:21 pm »

The Johnny Bach Classic if made annual is a good opportunity to bring balance to the OOC schedule.  St Peter's and Lipscomb ended up decent but those 3 games looked fairly dreadful at first.  If we are going to get a team who would not ordinarily come to the RHG here, it would be in that format where they don't have a pre-conference tournament invite but want to replicate a tourney experience with back-to-back-to-back games.  You could integrate an invite to them into a home and home arrangement, just throwing out feasible options maybe DePaul, or Charlotte, or South Florida (though I don't think USF even has 5 players right now).

I was looking at this year to get into another preseason tournament but we would have likely needed 15+ wins to be considered and then our transfers have made it a poor idea.
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 12:23:14 pm »

If the A-10 was going to complain about our line-up it would have been in 15-16 as that was a weaker schedule than last year.  Any complaints last year would have been about losing to the lineup but I doubt that happened although it would have been justified. 
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 12:27:04 pm »

We will play at Rutgers this year. 

Return games:

Harvard home
ETSU home
Manhattan home


Saint Johns may be  off the schedule completely. 

I'm not a huge fan of playing St. John's every year but if we're not playing them I hope we're adding a couple of local teams.

Any reason given why we're not playing St. John's this year?
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Rich93
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 12:31:14 pm »

I'm not a huge fan of playing St. John's every year but if we're not playing them I hope we're adding a couple of local teams.

Any reason given why we're not playing St. John's this year?

None was given but it seemed clear to me that they will not be on the schedule this year barring a change of mind. 
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ace93
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 12:38:39 pm »

None was given but it seemed clear to me that they will not be on the schedule this year barring a change of mind. 

A change of mind on whose part?
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 12:44:04 pm »

A change of mind on whose part?

Not St. Johns' part.
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ace93
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 12:58:23 pm »

Not St. Johns' part.

Please clarify what you mean by that.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2017, 10:38:56 am »

Please clarify what you mean by that.

St. John's wants to play. Specifically, their head coach.
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ace93
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2017, 10:48:56 am »

St. John's wants to play. Specifically, their head coach.

Interesting. Do you know the conditions? When, where, etc.?
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 06:39:48 pm »

I was told by a SJU source that Mullin would play Fordham but Neubauer does not want to play. No information on why not.

SJU will play Iona in the holiday festival.     
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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2017, 07:37:44 pm »

I was told by a SJU source that Mullin would play Fordham but Neubauer does not want to play. No information on why not.

SJU will play Iona in the holiday festival.     

My guess is JN won't play because Mullin won't return to Rose Hill.
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2017, 08:25:06 pm »

As of now, Fordham and Duquesne are the only two A-10 schools that have not been reported as participants in an early season tournament.  There are several power conference teams that are in the same boat, and some interesting tournaments that have not been filled.  I am not hitting the panic button, but would like to see some positive news.  Here is a link to a site that tracks OOC tournament schedules:

http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2016/10/18/13318944/2017-18-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2017, 11:27:05 pm »

We will play at Rutgers this year. 

Return games:

Harvard home
ETSU home
Manhattan home


Saint Johns may be  off the schedule completely. 

When was the last time we played a B1G team?
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2017, 12:01:57 am »

When was the last time we played a B1G team?

We played Rutgers last year at MSG as part of a double header.
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ace93
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 12:02:53 am »

When was the last time we played a B1G team?

Last season, but if you are looking for other than Rutgers then 2014, I believe.
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2017, 08:54:03 am »

Last season, but if you are looking for other than Rutgers then 2014, I believe.

Right, Penn State and Maryland, though I'm not sure the terps were big10 yet.
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ace93
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« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2017, 09:24:21 am »

Right, Penn State and Maryland, though I'm not sure the terps were big10 yet.

That was their first year in the B1G.
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« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2017, 10:14:41 am »

As of now, Fordham and Duquesne are the only two A-10 schools that have not been reported as participants in an early season tournament.  There are several power conference teams that are in the same boat, and some interesting tournaments that have not been filled.  I am not hitting the panic button, but would like to see some positive news.  Here is a link to a site that tracks OOC tournament schedules:

http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2016/10/18/13318944/2017-18-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
Positive news and Fordham Basketball- Contradiction in terms.... a true dichotomy...
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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2017, 04:14:25 pm »


Kenpom isn't the be all and end all.  He doesn't distinguish between D-1 or D-II games and uses scoring margin, which is fine, but Lipscomb beat the crap out of a few non-D-I teams.  Piedmont, Sewanee and Fisk.  They also beat Missouri on the road.  And they beat Florida Gulf Coast.   



Pomeroy doesn't use D-II games at all in his model.   Playing a D2 or D3 team is the same as taking the night off when it comes to his model.    Beating the crap out of a non-D1 team is irrelevant.
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