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NYRam07
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 11:25:52 am »

I was one of the first to call attention to the lack of "coaching" by Pecora.  However, he was able to get "local" players.  Local in this sense means NY and NJ.  Recall the following:
                                       Ryan Rhooms
                                       Chris Gaston
                                       Brandon Frazier
                                       Mandell Thomas
                                       A. Anderson
                                       Jon Severe
                                       B. Smith
                                       Eric Pascall
Some of these individuals worked out fine and others, not so much.  The point being that there was some local recruiting. Now-???

Id challenge how many of these guys are "locals." Anderson and Thomas were from so far upstate that they might as well be Canadian.
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 11:33:23 am »

I believe Pekarek, Nych Smith, Slanina and Havsa were all guys who committed after the signing period ended.  So I think it's a little premature to say we're done recruiting or that we should be disappointed with the recruiting class.  Let's see what the roster looks like in August (or better yet in December when we've seen the new guys get to play) before calling the off season a disappointment.  As far as where the guys come from, who cares.
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2017, 11:47:48 am »

While I suspect one or more foreign players might show up, it's pretty disappointing that a school offering a 4-year ride valued at $67K per year, with a gorgeous campus in the most exiting city on the continent, cannot persuade a single American HS or prep hoopster to accept a scholarship offer. That makes exactly 1 such player in 2 years to sign on.

Perhaps it was bad luck of the draw with the kids we offered this year, maybe something else. The one that stung me was losing Myles Johnson to Rutgers, of all places. He had the academic tools clearly was willing to relocate to the East coast, and signs with a school that's been out of the Dance for longer than we have, and competing in a conference they have little chance of prospering in. We've got to do something to rebrand this program (winning would be nice).

I'm not totally dejected, though. I think JN has a certain "type" of player he wants, and pretty challenging performance expectations. [Like Tom Penders, who was accused of being a "lazy" recruiter -- a charge that could not be leveled at JN & Co.  But in fact, Penders was just looking for a certain type of player, and he put some tough SOBs on the court during his time here. I'd like to think JN's the same way.

Have you ever considered that he may not prefer to recruit HS seniors. Drunkle has mentioned it many times and he is right, the tourney teams at EKU were built on Jucos. Who says you need to recruit frosh? I want the best players no matter where they are from.
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« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 11:47:57 am »

I was one of the first to call attention to the lack of "coaching" by Pecora.  However, he was able to get "local" players.  Local in this sense means NY and NJ.  Recall the following:
                                       Ryan Rhooms
                                       Chris Gaston
                                       Brandon Frazier
                                       Mandell Thomas
                                       A. Anderson
                                       Jon Severe
                                       B. Smith
                                       Eric Pascall
Some of these individuals worked out fine and others, not so much.  The point being that there was some local recruiting. Now-???

And how did Pecora s  recruits do in A-10 play?  They sucked. So your point is no point at all. You want us to get NY players who lose as opposed to non NY players who win a lot more games in the A-10?

St. Johns had just 2 players from the metro area on their team this year.  

How many NYC players made their all conference team this year? Do you know? here is a thought, maybe the local players arent the dominant players that they were 20-40 years ago. Its a global game now. Look at the NBA. You want to live in the heyday of NYC hs basketball and it doesnt exist anymore.

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Scott W 86
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 11:51:39 am »

John...I think that's  an astute analysis.

Re Myles going to Rutgers, I think we need to rethink our old ideas about them (their program problems, lack of wins, conference confusion, lack of brand, etc)  ..... They are Big 10 and that advantage for them will get bigger year after year.  It will be easier to create.a MBB power than a FB power.

I think in 5-7 years we'll all be acknowledging Rutgers as the area's best program.  That's all about the conference advantage (and a good coach)

I think the old model of getting most players locally is gone because schools nationwide have exponentially more access to seeing players from middle school up through technology.  NYC kids are getting more far flung offers, and the grass is usually greener in places with subways.

We know like we knitted them the advantages and disadvantages Fordham has in the recruiting game.  The longer we delay fixing our disadvantages, the longer we'll experience signing days with no USA 4 stars and 3stars.

I hate crossing my fingers waiting for for a foreign rabbit being pulled out of a strange looking hat!

I'll love that foreign kid from the moment he enrolls...but it always seems like a slap-dash crap shoot.

Also, if circumstances at Fordham dictate that we must rely on international recruiting, the more we become a prisoner to a coaching staff that has that in their bag of tricks.  If JN or Ali Ton leave, we are forced to find coaches that specialize in this recruiting game.

That will be our cross to bear.
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 11:56:14 am »

I am withholding judgment until we know that recruiting for next season has finished

The recruiting game has changed, international players, the rise of transfers, the focus on ,ore national instead of local recruiting, completely different ballgame from even five years ago and every coach has to adjust

I do think that JN talking about his recruiting philosophy would help us understand better what he hopes to accomplish and I wouldn't mind a leak or two beyond a Twitter post that " Good news is coming". Could be something as simple as a background conversation that indicates we are recruiting Euro post players or something similar, that would help some fans step back from the ledge

Is part of the staff's job to make sure we aren't on a ledge? I thought it was to win games? Your response is very reasoned so not an attack on you but more about this thread. This has to be one of the dumbest threads in the board's history and that is saying a lot. The fact posters think the staff owes them anything in terms of information is pretty funny. That staff owes us a winning team and so far they have delivered two of our most successful A-10  seasons. The paranoia around here is real. It is well earned by years and years of incompetence but it is real.
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 12:00:30 pm »

Big East had one player on their second team all conference team ( Kareem Carrington) from the NY metro area. Nobody on first team and nobody else on second team.

It seems as if we do not recruit New Jersey very much with this staff.
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2017, 12:11:51 pm »

Is part of the staff's job to make sure we aren't on a ledge? I thought it was to win games? Your response is very reasoned so not an attack on you but more about this thread. This has to be one of the dumbest threads in the board's history and that is saying a lot. The fact posters think the staff owes them anything in terms of information is pretty funny. That staff owes us a winning team and so far they have delivered two of our most successful A-10  seasons. The paranoia around here is real. It is well earned by years and years of incompetence but it is real.
I certainly respect your opinion, but the fact is that a record of 13 wins and 19 loses and a 7-11 record in A-10 competition can hardly be called successful.  When compared to past history, one might say that Fordham's record under Coach JN, is better then previous.  I do believe the Coach has an obligation to the fans, at a minimum, to talk about the direction of the program and/or type of recruits the program is seeking.  With Fordham, no news is not good news. Total silence is not "golden"
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2017, 12:22:40 pm »

And how did Pecora s  recruits do in A-10 play?  They sucked. So your point is no point at all. You want us to get NY players who lose as opposed to non NY players who win a lot more games in the A-10?

St. Johns had just 2 players from the metro area on their team this year.  

How many NYC players made their all conference team this year? Do you know? here is a thought, maybe the local players arent the dominant players that they were 20-40 years ago. Its a global game now. Look at the NBA. You want to live in the heyday of NYC hs basketball and it doesnt exist anymore.


The Fordham team, under Pecora's "coaching" was just BAD!  However, his recruits were fairly good.  Chris Gaston finished his
time at Fordham and was our # 8 all time point leader.  B. Frazier was # 9, and Mandell Thomas finished as # 13 all time scorer.
Even Bryan Smith scored almost 1000 points.  Ryan Rhooms finished with almost 1000 rebounds.  If, and it is a big if, these players
had the benefit of actual coaching, i.e. under JN, who knows how Fordham would have succeeded.  The sad truth is that the vast majority   of "local" (tri-state) players leave the NYC area but it would appear that Fordham now places little effort in attempting to
recruit these players.  
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 12:40:32 pm »

Id challenge how many of these guys are "locals." Anderson and Thomas were from so far upstate that they might as well be Canadian.

I was going to say Rochester is a longer drive than D.C., much less Baltimore or Philly.  Actually, Rochester is a 1 mile longer drive than Richmond, Virginia.
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2017, 12:46:01 pm »

The Fordham team, under Pecora's "coaching" was just BAD!  However, his recruits were fairly good.  Chris Gaston finished his
time at Fordham and was our # 8 all time point leader.  B. Frazier was # 9, and Mandell Thomas finished as # 13 all time scorer.
Even Bryan Smith scored almost 1000 points.  Ryan Rhooms finished with almost 1000 rebounds.  If, and it is a big if, these players
had the benefit of actual coaching, i.e. under JN, who knows how Fordham would have succeeded.  The sad truth is that the vast majority   of "local" (tri-state) players leave the NYC area but it would appear that Fordham now places little effort in attempting to
recruit these players.  


1. Chris Gaston was a DW recruit.

2. Nobody cares about scoring lists. They are beyond skewed. Frazier and others were playing against walk and 3rd teamers due to blowouts by halftime, totally irrelevant to anything.

Again, if you have some examples of local players who are thriving elsewhere that we should have gotten, please post them. Otherwise there is nothing to debate or compare.
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2017, 12:47:02 pm »

While I suspect one or more foreign players might show up, it's pretty disappointing that a school offering a 4-year ride valued at $67K per year, with a gorgeous campus in the most exiting city on the continent, cannot persuade a single American HS or prep hoopster to accept a scholarship offer. That makes exactly 1 such player in 2 years to sign on.

   Add to that list that we play in a top league, offer a great chance at significant playing time, and have had several up moments.

   It is mind-boggling that that these are our results.
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2017, 12:48:18 pm »

We cant attract a "single American" ?   Antwoine Portley is American, so is Tre Evans.  So is Hicks, so is Taveras, so is Ohams.   
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2017, 12:49:19 pm »

We cant attract a "single American" ?   Antowine Portley is American, so is Tre Evans.  So is Hicks.

and last year: Ohams, Taveras and Hawk.
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2017, 12:49:29 pm »

I believe Pekarek, Nych Smith, Slanina and Havsa were all guys who committed after the signing period ended.  So I think it's a little premature to say we're done recruiting or that we should be disappointed with the recruiting class.   

   If the late additions are not an improvement over that group, it would be a disappointment.
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2017, 12:50:40 pm »

I reserve judgment now. I was all over Havsa last year thinking he wasnt a player and he ended up dazzling at time late in season. It sucks but we have to tough it out and see these guys on the floor....which is a long ways off..again the one are we seem to be completely absent in is New Jersey......seems a bit odd to me.....
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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2017, 12:51:27 pm »

  If the late additions are not an improvement over that group, it would be a disappointment.

What's wrong with Havsa and Slanina? Slanina has the size and athleticism to be a big time player for us. May take another year but he'll get there.
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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2017, 12:54:16 pm »

  Have we had only 1 US high school or prep kid over 2 years or not?
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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2017, 12:54:21 pm »

I am withholding judgment until we know that recruiting for next season has finished

The recruiting game has changed, international players, the rise of transfers, the focus on ,ore national instead of local recruiting, completely different ballgame from even five years ago and every coach has to adjust

I do think that JN talking about his recruiting philosophy would help us understand better what he hopes to accomplish and I wouldn't mind a leak or two beyond a Twitter post that " Good news is coming". Could be something as simple as a background conversation that indicates we are recruiting Euro post players or something similar, that would help some fans step back from the ledge

I am hoping "good news is coming" would mean more than we are recruiting. It should mean we have a commitment that is waiting to be cleared or whatever that is holding up any announcements.
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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2017, 12:55:42 pm »

What's wrong with Havsa and Slanina? Slanina has the size and athleticism to be a big time player for us. May take another year but he'll get there.

   2 of the 4 mentioned didn't pan out and I'm just not sold on these 2.  We'll see.
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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2017, 01:00:45 pm »

Well, obviously not this year but Ohams is local, Slanina is foreign but played for ASA, which is based in NYC.  Tavares is from Providence but played for Monroe, also local.  So maybe not the cream off the top of the PSAL but they were all playing basketball in NYC.

It is disappointing we haven't had more signees to announce yet, but we didn't know about Havsa until August last year, so there may be more in the works.  Right now we have 10 guys on scholarship active for next season, assuming the eligible guys all come back.  Miami played last year with 9.  Not comparing Fordham to them but it happens sometimes you don't use them all up, departures, etc.  And Miami made the tournament.

I like the 2 guys we signed, even though Portley sits out.  We do need more.  

While depth is important I rather have quality than quantity. The fact that Miami played with 9 last year and made the Tournament has to do with quality.
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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2017, 01:01:05 pm »

I was going to say Rochester is a longer drive than D.C., much less Baltimore or Philly.  Actually, Rochester is a 1 mile longer drive than Richmond, Virginia.

Don't I know it! AA and Mandel were not "locals".

Recruiting's changed, it's become an industry, and now involves a national "sifting" process. The best prospects get sifted into the Power 5 conferences; geography doesn't matter. The next pool of players spreads onto the next group of conferences, including the A-10.  You just don't see a Bob Lanier winding up at St. Bonaventure any more. And the recruiting stream doesn't run through the high schools, it's largely through AAU ball.

That being said, it is very disappointing that we went head-to-head with a number of A-10 schools for prospects this year, and did not come away with a single "win". Foreign players are a consolation only if they are as good, or better, as the guys we were chasing at home.
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« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2017, 01:16:07 pm »

  Have we had only 1 US high school or prep kid over 2 years or not?

 We are building a team now like Gaitley. 5th year player ( Hawkins) JUCOS and a mix. I think that is how it has to be done these days. Nobody complains that gaitley always has foreign players, because she wins. There are 5 foreign players on the womens team.
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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2017, 01:18:47 pm »

While depth is important I rather have quality than quantity. The fact that Miami played with 9 last year and made the Tournament has to do with quality.

Maybe hold one for a mid year transfer?
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2017, 01:44:19 pm »

Big East had one player on their second team all conference team ( Kareem Carrington) from the NY metro area. Nobody on first team and nobody else on second team.

It seems as if we do not recruit New Jersey very much with this staff.

85...I usually agree with your post but I think you're wrong about the talent in the NY area.  Look at the A10 all conference teams for the past two years


2016-2017 A10 All-Conference
First Team
Scoochie Smith - Bronx

Second Team
Charles Cooke - Trenton
Hasaan Martin - Staten Island
Marquise Moore - Queens
Tyler Cavanagh - Syracuse

2015-2016 A10 All-Conference
First Team
DeAndre' Bembry - Union, NJ
Charles Cooke - Trenton
Melvin Johnson - Bronx

Second Team
Tyler Cavanagh - Syracuse

Third Team
Ryan Rhoomes - South Jamaica
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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2017, 01:47:52 pm »

While I suspect one or more foreign players might show up, it's pretty disappointing that a school offering a 4-year ride valued at $67K per year, with a gorgeous campus in the most exiting city on the continent, cannot persuade a single American HS or prep hoopster to accept a scholarship offer. That makes exactly 1 such player in 2 years to sign on.

Perhaps it was bad luck of the draw with the kids we offered this year, maybe something else. The one that stung me was losing Myles Johnson to Rutgers, of all places. He had the academic tools clearly was willing to relocate to the East coast, and signs with a school that's been out of the Dance for longer than we have, and competing in a conference they have little chance of prospering in. We've got to do something to rebrand this program (winning would be nice).

I'm not totally dejected, though. I think JN has a certain "type" of player he wants, and pretty challenging performance expectations. [Like Tom Penders, who was accused of being a "lazy" recruiter -- a charge that could not be leveled at JN & Co.  But in fact, Penders was just looking for a certain type of player, and he put some tough SOBs on the court during his time here. I'd like to think JN's the same way.

I will say we one thing about JN, he got wins out of this team that I don't think any other coach could have.  Sure some late game heroics by Anderson, but having the stamina and confidence to even be there with the traditional A10 elite was refreshing. The team had a different vibe and it was positive. Imagine if we could hit a few shots.
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2017, 01:49:52 pm »

While depth is important I rather have quality than quantity. The fact that Miami played with 9 last year and made the Tournament has to do with quality.
I believe 3 of the players are from New York Area... 1 Brooklyn..1 Queens..& 1 from New Jersey....
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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2017, 01:57:44 pm »

85...I usually agree with your post but I think you're wrong about the talent in the NY area.  Look at the A10 all conference teams for the past two years


2016-2017 A10 All-Conference
First Team
Scoochie Smith - Bronx

Second Team
Charles Cooke - Trenton
Hasaan Martin - Staten Island
Marquise Moore - Queens
Tyler Cavanagh - Syracuse

2015-2016 A10 All-Conference
First Team
DeAndre' Bembry - Union, NJ
Charles Cooke - Trenton
Melvin Johnson - Bronx

Second Team
Tyler Cavanagh - Syracuse

Third Team
Ryan Rhoomes - South Jamaica


Its a much different dynamic now. How many of these guys were at prep schools, far away from NYC, during the recruiting process?  The days of Penders going to the NYC Catholic League and grabbing 3 guys are gone. I dont view recruiting guys who are out of state at prep schools the same as recruiting the local high school players. Your recruiting  inroads are not with the NYC coaches but the New England Prep coaches and the like.  For every Rhoomes , there was a Fatty or a Short....Severe didnt work out, Frazier was very good, Estwick was horrible, Bethel was a true enigma, MJW was not too good.....we havent faired too well over the past 10-12 years with local players,,,,,,but maybe we didnt sign the right ones .......I just dont agree that guys who are from NY but are at prepp schools is the same as recruiting NYC HS players......
 
Personally, I would love to see local guys. But its not 25 years ago when this was the hub with all of the talent. There is talent all over the country and elsewhere. The prep schools only make it more difficult.  Recruiting is not an easy game these days. Side note, has DiPaoli ever signed anyone?
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2017, 03:14:01 pm »

   2 of the 4 mentioned didn't pan out and I'm just not sold on these 2.  We'll see.

I think you will change your tune by the time these guys are done but we'll see.
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2017, 03:26:08 pm »

While depth is important I rather have quality than quantity. The fact that Miami played with 9 last year and made the Tournament has to do with quality.

That's true.  And they have a great class coming in.  But it's interesting they couldn't fill out all their schollies when they can sell ACC, Miami, etc.  They had a transfer out, a guy they suspended, and they lost out on some guys.

Can any of the football players play?  Years ago, when UNC's cupboard was a little bare in the transition from when Dean Smith retired and Guthridge didn't recruit, Doherty was left his 1st year with playing football players.  Ronald Curry and Julius Peppers.  Peppers had actually gotten to the Final 4 in Guthridge's last year and these guys were both heavy rotation players on Doherty's team that got to number 1 in the polls in February.  Peppers was a beast of an inside player, as you can imagine.   
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