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Players I think we should look into. The Recruiting Speculation Game


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Author Topic: Players I think we should look into. The Recruiting Speculation Game  (Read 2136 times)
ace93
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« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2017, 03:48:48 pm »

Perhaps all it will take is an appeal to set the precedent. I'd like to hear the NCAAs argument in favor of forcing a kid to sit a year after having his scholarship revoked.

Fairly sure a walk-on who transfers has to sit. It is meant to protect programs from getting their players tampered with, but clearly it is being abused the other way too.
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« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2017, 05:16:47 pm »

Fairly sure a walk-on who transfers has to sit. It is meant to protect programs from getting their players tampered with, but clearly it is being abused the other way too.

I'd argue that there is a clear distinction between a walk-on and a player who was on formerly on scholarship. I don't think the tampering fear comes into play at all in this situation.

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ace93
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2017, 05:26:54 pm »

I'd argue that there is a clear distinction between a walk-on and a player who was on formerly on scholarship. I don't think the tampering fear comes into play at all in this situation.

I just used the walk-on as an example of how the rule forcing a player to sit out a year is far reaching. Tampering is just mentioned as one of the main reasons as to why the sit-out year is in place.
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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2017, 09:55:48 am »

does anyone have some inside scoop about some possible new players coming on to the roster.  It is getting late and time is ticking.
Sadly have to agree with Rothstein's prediction, as thus far we lost some good players and the replacement value is not there.  Hopefully a nice surprise or two is waiting in the wings and will surface soon.
I like JN as a coach but he needs to find and bring in the horses. 
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ace93
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2017, 10:12:16 am »

does anyone have some inside scoop about some possible new players coming on to the roster.  It is getting late and time is ticking.
Sadly have to agree with Rothstein's prediction, as thus far we lost some good players and the replacement value is not there.  Hopefully a nice surprise or two is waiting in the wings and will surface soon.
I like JN as a coach but he needs to find and bring in the horses. 

I am not sure I agree that the replacement value is not there. Tre Evans and Perris Hicks replace Antwoine Anderson and Javontae Hawkins. Sengfelder's replacement might be on the roster also. To me the recruiting is a concern for future years more than for this coming season.
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2017, 11:55:57 am »

Perhaps all it will take is an appeal to set the precedent. I'd like to hear the NCAAs argument in favor of forcing a kid to sit a year after having his scholarship revoked.

It does seem very unjust in the cases where a kid essentially got dumped through no serious fault of his own (injury, passed over, etc.).  However, I can envision where if you didn't have this kind of rule, kids who want to transfer could act up just to get themselves thrown off a team, at which point they would be rewarded with immediate eligibility.  If you wanted to fix this problem, I think you would have to give the coach of the former team or some NCAA panel the discretion to decide whether a kid should be immediately eligible or whether they should have to sit due to a problem on their part.
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2017, 12:21:58 pm »

It does seem very unjust in the cases where a kid essentially got dumped through no serious fault of his own (injury, passed over, etc.).  However, I can envision where if you didn't have this kind of rule, kids who want to transfer could act up just to get themselves thrown off a team, at which point they would be rewarded with immediate eligibility.  If you wanted to fix this problem, I think you would have to give the coach of the former team or some NCAA panel the discretion to decide whether a kid should be immediately eligible or whether they should have to sit due to a problem on their part.

You're giving the NCAA way too much power for the more than likely rare case. NCAA needs to be deregulated.... not given more power.
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2017, 02:13:48 pm »

You're giving the NCAA way too much power for the more than likely rare case. NCAA needs to be deregulated.... not given more power.

I disagree about needing deregulating the NCAA but that's for a different thread. 

I'm not sure it's going to be a rare case.  Once you open up a new route to immediate eligibility for transfers, I can guarantee that street agents and players who want to transfer will find ways to exploit it.  The 1 year sit out rule is there to prevent exploitation of smaller programs by bigger programs, so it's important to put in whatever safeguards are necessary to continue those protections.

I do see your point though.  I would say that the coach should be the first decision-maker, and if the student feels it's unfair they could appeal to the NCAA.  Most of the time I would imagine a coach would out of guilt or conscience allow a released player (where there wasn't some bad will) to transfer and play immediately, and whenever they don't then the player would immediately appeal the coach's decision to the NCAA.
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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2017, 02:37:47 pm »

I disagree about needing deregulating the NCAA but that's for a different thread. 

I'm not sure it's going to be a rare case.  Once you open up a new route to immediate eligibility for transfers, I can guarantee that street agents and players who want to transfer will find ways to exploit it.  The 1 year sit out rule is there to prevent exploitation of smaller programs by bigger programs, so it's important to put in whatever safeguards are necessary to continue those protections.

I do see your point though.  I would say that the coach should be the first decision-maker, and if the student feels it's unfair they could appeal to the NCAA.  Most of the time I would imagine a coach would out of guilt or conscience allow a released player (where there wasn't some bad will) to transfer and play immediately, and whenever they don't then the player would immediately appeal the coach's decision to the NCAA.

The NCAA By-Laws are so over engineered, I'm not even sure they understand why they made certain rules. My favorite... you're allowed to provide your student athletes bagels, but no cream cheese or butter! NO WAY!

It's simple. Don't revoke your players scholarships if you don't want them to have immediate eligibility. If they're being a bad teammate, handle it the old fashioned way - run them into submission, and sit their a$$ on the far end of the bench. I can't imagine players regularly sabotaging themselves in order to force their coaches hand into revoking a ship.
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ace93
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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2017, 02:43:48 pm »

I am at fault also, but let's not muddle this thread with talk about the NCAA.
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2017, 04:18:01 pm »

The NCAA By-Laws are so over engineered, I'm not even sure they understand why they made certain rules. My favorite... you're allowed to provide your student athletes bagels, but no cream cheese or butter! NO WAY!

It's simple. Don't revoke your players scholarships if you don't want them to have immediate eligibility. If they're being a bad teammate, handle it the old fashioned way - run them into submission, and sit their a$$ on the far end of the bench. I can't imagine players regularly sabotaging themselves in order to force their coaches hand into revoking a ship.

I didn't know that.  I'm assuming plain bagels are allowed, but everything bagels would considered "pure luxury"!  Grin

No, it wouldn't be a common occurrence at all.  Just saying that immediate eligibility would create a powerful temptation and inevitably it would be exploited.  There should be a process for countering it when that happens.  Keeping a player benched for a very long time once it's clear he really wants out is not a reliable solution because it's a waste of a scholarship and thus a huge opportunity cost.  Coaches have no reason to keep such a kid and it would be in the coach's best interests to cut him loose. 

Essentially I think what I described would be a way of giving a player either an honorable discharge (with no consequences) or a dishonorable discharge (you would have to sit a year).  It would actually reward kids for trying hard and discourage primadonnas.
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