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« Reply #330 on: September 06, 2017, 10:11:29 am »

A couple of glaring issues (amid a myriad of problems not the least of which was being outclassed by a good Army team) seem to be preparedness and clock management. I knew it was going to be a long evening for Fordham (and  a short one for me; I didn't watch the second half) when I hadn't had a bite of pizza or a sip of beer before I was yelling "snap the friggin' ball!" at the TV.

One of the things that drives me nuts about this offense is when they come up to the line, get in formation, signals are called, and then the QB steps back from the line, looks to the sideline, gets signals, and then re-sets. I know that the team has had some prolific production with this scheme. And I know it works almost all the time. But it still drives me crazy.

Can someone please explain what exactly is coming in from the sideline through the hand signals and symbol cards (and not something vague like "the defensive set-up"). What is the sideline seeing that the QB can't?  Why does this need to happen this way?
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« Reply #331 on: September 06, 2017, 10:26:56 am »

A couple of glaring issues (amid a myriad of problems not the least of which was being outclassed by a good Army team) seem to be preparedness and clock management. I knew it was going to be a long evening for Fordham (and  a short one for me; I didn't watch the second half) when I hadn't had a bite of pizza or a sip of beer before I was yelling "snap the friggin' ball!" at the TV.

One of the things that drives me nuts about this offense is when they come up to the line, get in formation, signals are called, and then the QB steps back from the line, looks to the sideline, gets signals, and then re-sets. I know that the team has had some prolific production with this scheme. And I know it works almost all the time. But it still drives me crazy.

Can someone please explain what exactly is coming in from the sideline through the hand signals and symbol cards (and not something vague like "the defensive set-up"). What is the sideline seeing that the QB can't?  Why does this need to happen this way?

Different coaches use these different ways. 

The cards are usually a "kill series". It's actually four different plays to choose from on the card.  The one chosen is "live". The rest are killed (not used).  It's basically the old "check with me", when the QB called his own plays. 

The hand signals are either sending in the play, formation or blocking.  I don't know exactly how Fordham does this.  The other assistants or players making signals are decoys.  It does seem like overkill.  In the old days the offensive center could call the blocking himself.  The QB could look at the defense and change the play on the line.  I've heard the argument made that all these options the offense takes the time to go through, help the defense.
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« Reply #332 on: September 06, 2017, 10:53:00 am »

Pretty funny if true!

Was it the Bates Motel?


It was a Motel 6, but nobody left the light on.  The guys were all wandering around in the dark looking for the light switch.
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« Reply #333 on: September 06, 2017, 11:08:56 am »

71- I understand your point, but you made the rebuttal for me. The offense has put up some very serious numbers since Moorhead changed the way we do things. It drives me nuts when I see people here, or hear people at games, start yelling "GO UNDER CENTER! RUN A POWER PLAY! C'MON COACH!" BLAH BLAH BLAH... That's NOT the offense we run. We do not go under center, we do not run power plays. Its not our offense. There's no such thing as an offense that works 100% of the time. There will be success and there will be failure. Critiquing the offensive scheme in these situations is pointless. Its the way we've done things for what... 5 years now? More? It's not going to change.

I don't understand why people think it'll be so much easier to pick up a yard or two with a traditional I formation or whatever. Chase is approaching the FCS and NCAA rushing records (NCAA record probably out of reach after last week) using this very offense. He's never once ran a power play and never once lined up in the I. Absolutely kills me when I hear/see those arguments.
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« Reply #334 on: September 06, 2017, 11:36:47 am »

71- I understand your point, but you made the rebuttal for me. The offense has put up some very serious numbers since Moorhead changed the way we do things. It drives me nuts when I see people here, or hear people at games, start yelling "GO UNDER CENTER! RUN A POWER PLAY! C'MON COACH!" BLAH BLAH BLAH... That's NOT the offense we run. We do not go under center, we do not run power plays. Its not our offense. There's no such thing as an offense that works 100% of the time. There will be success and there will be failure. Critiquing the offensive scheme in these situations is pointless. Its the way we've done things for what... 5 years now? More? It's not going to change.

I don't understand why people think it'll be so much easier to pick up a yard or two with a traditional I formation or whatever. Chase is approaching the FCS and NCAA rushing records (NCAA record probably out of reach after last week) using this very offense. He's never once ran a power play and never once lined up in the I. Absolutely kills me when I hear/see those arguments.

I am not a "get under center, run a power play" guy. I am just wondering what the hell is going on pre-snap when the QB steps back and looks to the sideline. What's happening there?
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« Reply #335 on: September 06, 2017, 01:15:02 pm »

I am not a "get under center, run a power play" guy. I am just wondering what the hell is going on pre-snap when the QB steps back and looks to the sideline. What's happening there?

Sorry - didn't mean you specifically! AOC gave a pretty good explanation above.
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« Reply #336 on: September 06, 2017, 04:34:11 pm »

I am not a "get under center, run a power play" guy. I am just wondering what the hell is going on pre-snap when the QB steps back and looks to the sideline. What's happening there?

Overkill is what's happening.  Everyone wants to be a guru. 
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« Reply #337 on: September 06, 2017, 04:47:30 pm »

Overkill is what's happening.  Everyone wants to be a guru. 

Why is it overkill? we've been doing it quite successfully for 5+ years.... are you really going to complain about our offensive production?
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« Reply #338 on: September 06, 2017, 05:07:39 pm »

Why is it overkill? we've been doing it quite successfully for 5+ years.... are you really going to complain about our offensive production?

With the players we've had in the past 5 year and the general level of competetion, we would get good production out of the old Delaware Wing T or The Houston Veer. 

We have had great players and a solid play book.  I don't know all the bells and whistles do much for us.  They certainly haven't helped when we go outside the PL.  Get to the line and run the play and I bet we have the same production, maybe better, because you don't give the defense time to adjust and they get tire because they have to rush back and line up.
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« Reply #339 on: September 06, 2017, 11:30:56 pm »

Why is it overkill? we've been doing it quite successfully for 5+ years.... are you really going to complain about our offensive production?

We will need the production for sure since this program is solely focused on one side of the ball.  We will have to put up 40 a game just to have a chance to win.
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« Reply #340 on: September 07, 2017, 07:25:06 am »

We will need the production for sure since this program is solely focused on one side of the ball.  We will have to put up 40 a game just to have a chance to win.

No argument from me on that point.
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« Reply #341 on: September 07, 2017, 09:09:27 am »

With the players we've had in the past 5 year and the general level of competetion, we would get good production out of the old Delaware Wing T or The Houston Veer. 

We have had great players and a solid play book.  I don't know all the bells and whistles do much for us.  They certainly haven't helped when we go outside the PL.  Get to the line and run the play and I bet we have the same production, maybe better, because you don't give the defense time to adjust and they get tire because they have to rush back and line up.

I honestly don't know whether or not it makes a difference, but its the offense we run and its the way we've always run it (under this regime). We've had quality wins outside the PL, but its pretty obvious that we're still a step or maybe even two behind the next level of conferences.
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« Reply #342 on: September 07, 2017, 09:09:45 am »

delayed checkin on the Army game.

Thankfully I missed the game and the misery and enjoyed a day with family at an amusement park.  One I saw the score of 57-6 with about 5 minutes left, I had the same feeling as everyone on here and was not even brave enough to see the comments until yesterday.  Ouch, what a horrific outing.  Not much more to add as I can only gather info from a box score, a few lowlight video shots and the comments here. No doubt the team has to rebound big time with a dominant win over CCSU.

I am not throwing in the towel but I do my my concerns about Breiner.  I worry that he was hired to keep the continuity as their was obvious familiarity with him as a top assistant.  It is early in his head coaching career, but my concerns warranted or not are:
- not sure if he is a leader
- is he only focused on the offense, and if so can he actually call plays
- can he prepare his team for a game (4 straight penalties with a delay of game on the first play, wow)
- if you cant find a way to get the best running to have a productive game, there is an obvious concern.  
- that he is not a true leader and only wants to focus on the offense.am concerned that
- he is young and some young coaches make it, but maybe he doesn't really have the drive
- how is he as a recruiter? (maybe too early to tell).  I do like he is bringing in lineman, but how good are they?
- when I see the press conferences, the comments seem to be surface comments and don't have much depth. In other words, just mentioned the effects and not what the the action(s) that caused the effects.  I realize sometimes you have to see the film to get tot he bottom of things, but some causes are very easy/obvious to determine.
- hope he is humble and not a cocky millennial
- maybe he is too young and inexperienced to run the show at this level.

Again, not throwing in the towel,as it is a small sample size, BUT.... if we do not soundly beat CCSU and at least be competitive with EWU on at JCF, then the red flags are legitimate.  
I can't deal with another Pecora on the sidelines.  Roach, I hope you are paying attention.




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« Reply #343 on: September 07, 2017, 09:17:40 am »

I watched the game about two days later. I am not saying it was good or even ok, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be after reading the comments here.
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« Reply #344 on: September 07, 2017, 09:43:17 am »

I am not a "get under center, run a power play" guy. I am just wondering what the hell is going on pre-snap when the QB steps back and looks to the sideline. What's happening there?

few options i think:

Its a hard count/there is no play called. then based on defensive formation breiner will call a play he thinks will work.

Anderson see's how they are lined up and decides it wont work. he looks to the sideline for what breiner wants to do.
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« Reply #345 on: September 07, 2017, 11:06:06 am »

does any remember coach ed foley.  was hethe one who was picked to replace clawson cuz he was players choice?  and oc? and never head coach? he failed miserably.  Is breiner him?

No. Foley is at Temple and Breiner at Fordham. Breiner is definitely not Foley.

What I meant was are they the same archetype.  I know they're not the same actual person (though I've never seen them together).  I meant it as a way to spark convo about whether our football team is headed where that one went after Clawson less.  Both Foley and BReiner had similar backgroudns...wanted by the players, no prior head coaching experience, recrutiing guru, offensive asst, pourous defense.
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« Reply #346 on: September 07, 2017, 11:09:52 am »

does any remember coach ed foley.  was hethe one who was picked to replace clawson cuz he was players choice?  and oc? and never head coach? he failed miserably.  Is breiner him?

No. Foley is at Temple and Breiner at Fordham. Breiner is definitely not Foley.

What I meant was are they the same archetype.  I know they're not the same actual person (though I've never seen them together).  I meant it as a way to spark convo about whether our football team is headed where that one went after Clawson less.  Both Foley and BReiner had similar backgroudns...wanted by the players, no prior head coaching experience, recrutiing guru, offensive asst, pourous defense.
d

And both were not in a position to make demands of the administration for additional resources. 
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« Reply #347 on: September 07, 2017, 11:22:50 am »

does any remember coach ed foley.  was hethe one who was picked to replace clawson cuz he was players choice?  and oc? and never head coach? he failed miserably.  Is breiner him?

No. Foley is at Temple and Breiner at Fordham. Breiner is definitely not Foley.

What I meant was are they the same archetype.  I know they're not the same actual person (though I've never seen them together).  I meant it as a way to spark convo about whether our football team is headed where that one went after Clawson less.  Both Foley and BReiner had similar backgroudns...wanted by the players, no prior head coaching experience, recrutiing guru, offensive asst, pourous defense.

I know what you meant.
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« Reply #348 on: September 07, 2017, 11:32:53 am »

  Both Foley and BReiner had similar backgroudns...wanted by the players, no prior head coaching experience, recrutiing guru, offensive asst, pourous defense.

I'm not going to defend Breiner (it's too early to judge him, IMO) but criticizing him and Foley for their lack of HC experience is bogus.  What head coaching experience did Dave Clawson or Joe Moorhead have before taking the Fordham job?
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« Reply #349 on: September 07, 2017, 11:36:38 am »

delayed checkin on the Army game.

Thankfully I missed the game and the misery and enjoyed a day with family at an amusement park.  One I saw the score of 57-6 with about 5 minutes left, I had the same feeling as everyone on here and was not even brave enough to see the comments until yesterday.  Ouch, what a horrific outing.  Not much more to add as I can only gather info from a box score, a few lowlight video shots and the comments here. No doubt the team has to rebound big time with a dominant win over CCSU.

I am not throwing in the towel but I do my my concerns about Breiner.  I worry that he was hired to keep the continuity as their was obvious familiarity with him as a top assistant.  It is early in his head coaching career, but my concerns warranted or not are:
- not sure if he is a leader
- is he only focused on the offense, and if so can he actually call plays
- can he prepare his team for a game (4 straight penalties with a delay of game on the first play, wow)
- if you cant find a way to get the best running to have a productive game, there is an obvious concern.  
- that he is not a true leader and only wants to focus on the offense.am concerned that
- he is young and some young coaches make it, but maybe he doesn't really have the drive
- how is he as a recruiter? (maybe too early to tell).  I do like he is bringing in lineman, but how good are they?
- when I see the press conferences, the comments seem to be surface comments and don't have much depth. In other words, just mentioned the effects and not what the the action(s) that caused the effects.  I realize sometimes you have to see the film to get tot he bottom of things, but some causes are very easy/obvious to determine.
- hope he is humble and not a cocky millennial
- maybe he is too young and inexperienced to run the show at this level.

Again, not throwing in the towel,as it is a small sample size, BUT.... if we do not soundly beat CCSU and at least be competitive with EWU on at JCF, then the red flags are legitimate.  
I can't deal with another Pecora on the sidelines.  Roach, I hope you are paying attention.



You made the right choice Chaka; this one seemed over before it started.  Time will tell about the coach. But I will say that there seemed in be a "deer in the headlights" look on both the field and the sidelines at times on Friday evening. A little disturbing . . .

Who would have thunk that CCSU would be an important game on this schedule?!
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« Reply #350 on: September 07, 2017, 11:45:41 am »

few options i think:

Its a hard count/there is no play called. then based on defensive formation breiner will call a play he thinks will work.

Anderson see's how they are lined up and decides it wont work. he looks to the sideline for what breiner wants to do.


Thanks guys for the feedback on this. I guess I chalk a lot of it up to the prohibition of headset technology (coach to helmet) in college ball. When that changes I think a lot of this will be old history in the near future.

(and BTW, I'm a guy who would rather have zero technology in the game, no replay etc. But that's just a bit of personal wackiness on my part . . .)
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« Reply #351 on: September 07, 2017, 11:49:27 am »

Thanks guys for the feedback on this. I guess I chalk a lot of it up to the prohibition of headset technology (coach to helmet) in college ball. When that changes I think a lot of this will be old history in the near future.

(and BTW, I'm a guy who would rather have zero technology in the game, no replay etc. But that's just a bit of personal wackiness on my part . . .)

How about Apple Watch?
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« Reply #352 on: September 07, 2017, 11:50:14 am »

I watched the game about two days later. I am not saying it was good or even ok, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be after reading the comments here.

Outside of the well organized pre-game stretch, what part of the game did you feel wasn't vomit inducing?
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« Reply #353 on: September 07, 2017, 12:01:15 pm »

How about Apple Watch?

Particularly Apple Watch.    Wink
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« Reply #354 on: September 07, 2017, 12:22:48 pm »

Outside of the well organized pre-game stretch, what part of the game did you feel wasn't vomit inducing?

To be clear, based on what I read here, I thought we did zero, never drove the ball or anything like that. Not trying to say that any of these things were any consolation in the end.

1. The 4:13, 79 yard drive in the 2nd that resulted in a TD.
2. 7:37 drive in the end of 1st Q and into 2nd Q.  Ended in disaster and was vomit inducing, but the drive was not.
3. 5:38 drive in the 3rd.

Again, not saying it was good and not saying it was not bad. Just saying that based on the comments here, some basically calling for Breiner's head, I thought it was worse than it was.
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« Reply #355 on: September 07, 2017, 12:55:42 pm »

Coach B  is a good recruiter in my opinion.  We're getting solid FCS players and a # of them are choosing Fordham ,  over CAA teams , other PL schools and even over a few MAC (FBS) programs.

Where Coach B could improve is 
- team discipline (penalties/lack of focus)
-losing some of the gunslinger mentality (going for it 4th down too often/and our side of field early in game). 
- not giving enough emphasis to Defense.  It one thing to get beat by a better players, its another when guys don't know their assignment.   He did change DC this year but wasn't a good start.     

Last year  I gave him a grade of B.    8-3 record and a nice wins against Colgate and Penn.   
However the loss at Monmouth (play calling and in game decisions)  and got blow out at Lehigh..  we're not a good look.

I'm hoping we get a W this week,  Coach B grows into the job and we continue to improve from there.

BTW,  AD Roach was at game and on sidelines for Army. 



 
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« Reply #356 on: September 07, 2017, 03:00:24 pm »

Coach B  is a good recruiter in my opinion.  We're getting solid FCS players and a # of them are choosing Fordham ,  over CAA teams , other PL schools and even over a few MAC (FBS) programs.

Where Coach B could improve is 
- team discipline (penalties/lack of focus)
-losing some of the gunslinger mentality (going for it 4th down too often/and our side of field early in game). 
- not giving enough emphasis to Defense.  It one thing to get beat by a better players, its another when guys don't know their assignment.   He did change DC this year but wasn't a good start.     

Last year  I gave him a grade of B.    8-3 record and a nice wins against Colgate and Penn.   
However the loss at Monmouth (play calling and in game decisions)  and got blow out at Lehigh..  we're not a good look.

I'm hoping we get a W this week,  Coach B grows into the job and we continue to improve from there.

BTW,  AD Roach was at game and on sidelines for Army. 



I'm definitely on the same page with you here and the team could have folded last year after Navy but went 8 - 2 the rest of the way.  The only thing I would open up for discussion is the lack of focus on D.  He overhauled the entire staff and it seems like there's been a good recruiting focus on both sides of the line.  He seems to have more of a focus on it than Moorhead did imo.  Just not sure what else he needs to do in order to give it 'focus' - it's now time for the new coaches and players to have an impact.  We'll see.

As bitterly disappointed as I was over how we lost (not necessarily that we lost), there's no question Coach needs and deserves more time imo.  Let's hope we get back on track this weekend.
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« Reply #357 on: September 07, 2017, 04:26:27 pm »

Question on the D staff.
Did he overhaul it or did they leave.

I may be dead wrong, but  thought many of the D Staff bolted for other positions.  I got the impression that they were not asked to leave or fired, they left on their own.  IF that is the case, he simply refilled positions versus overhauled the staff. Please correct me if I am wrong here


And I agree with getting a little too over aggressive on the 4th down calls in your own end of the field.  I only see that as an option if you must in order to win a game, or the offensive is in a grove and has shown they can get a tough yard.

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« Reply #358 on: September 07, 2017, 04:59:33 pm »

I'm definitely on the same page with you here and the team could have folded last year after Navy but went 8 - 2 the rest of the way. 

Keep in mind not only did we lose to Navy, 52-16, last year, but that Navy team then lost to Army, 21-17, in December.

And I don't think there's any doubt that the 2017 Army team is better than last year's Army team.

In other words, a significant loss to Army to open this season was reasonably foreseeable. 

We need to re-focus and just get back to work, like we did last season.
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« Reply #359 on: September 07, 2017, 09:26:25 pm »

Keep in mind not only did we lose to Navy, 52-16, last year, but that Navy team then lost to Army, 21-17, in December.

And I don't think there's any doubt that the 2017 Army team is better than last year's Army team.

In other words, a significant loss to Army to open this season was reasonably foreseeable. 

We need to re-focus and just get back to work, like we did last season.

Irrelevant that Army beat Navy last year.  Navy is learning what it's like to play in a decent conference.  It's not like being an independent.  Very few weeks off and the season takes its toll.  Navy faded at the end of the year.  They are finding out what Army found out in Conference USA.  Playing in a conference is tough on the service academies.  They can't just open up a can of tackles like the other D-I programs can. 
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