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NYRam07
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« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2017, 04:15:50 pm »

Yes we have a kicker to replace him who just happens to be one of the highest rated players we have recruited.

I wonder why he didn't win the job out of camp? The current situation is clearly not working for us.
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« Reply #181 on: September 11, 2017, 04:26:50 pm »

I am still of the thought that maybe CCSU is better than we thought. Time will tell.

I do think that right now we are not as good as many of us originally thought or had hoped, to state the obvious. Our D is as average as it was last year, and that might be generous. Our O seems a step back. Not sure the O is good enough to win in the gunslinging fashion that might be necessary. We are fortunate that we do not have any PL games for a few weeks.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #182 on: September 11, 2017, 04:41:09 pm »

The hiring of Breiner reminds me of the hiring of Dabo Swinney by Clemson. I believe Dabo was the tight ends coach and I know he was promoted over several coaches on the staff and there was no national search. That hire has worked out pretty well.

As far as Rich Rodriguez is concerned, a young coach could pick a lot worse mentor.
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« Reply #183 on: September 11, 2017, 04:59:41 pm »

I am still of the thought that maybe CCSU is better than we thought. Time will tell.

I do think that right now we are not as good as many of us originally thought or had hoped, to state the obvious. Our D is as average as it was last year, and that might be generous. Our O seems a step back. Not sure the O is good enough to win in the gunslinging fashion that might be necessary. We are fortunate that we do not have any PL games for a few weeks.

Having Chase and Longhi healthy are obviously huge for us on getting the O clicking. I think they along with KA are our 3 best players on offense.
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« Reply #184 on: September 11, 2017, 05:01:55 pm »


As far as Rich Rodriguez is concerned, a young coach could pick a lot worse mentor.

here's the quote from the article:  

Quote
"To prepare for that, Breiner uses a "cheat sheet," a tip he took from a talk given by Arizona coach Rich Rodriguez during a clinic.
"He listed different coverages and different fronts and just a call or two that were his favorite calls against those," Breiner said. "So that if he ever got into a game and they showed him something different or they were stuck and couldn't seem to get the right plays called, he would go back to that cheat sheet."

I don't read "mentor" out of that.  I read "he had a good idea at a clinic I attended".  
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« Reply #185 on: September 11, 2017, 05:04:57 pm »

here's the quote from the article:  

I don't read "mentor" out of that.  I read "he had a good idea at a clinic I attended".

Excellent was to bring reason into this.

In southcarolinaram's defense, he was only replying to the claims by at least on other poster that referred to RR as Breiner's mentor.
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« Reply #186 on: September 11, 2017, 05:13:51 pm »

I'm not understanding the issue with a "cheat sheet".  I don't know a lot of coaches who don't use something like that.  I've always thought it was pretty basic to coaching.
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« Reply #187 on: September 11, 2017, 06:13:08 pm »

Just one other thought on the CCSU game.  It actually may have looked worse than it was.

We were down 17-0 after the first few minutes of the game because we allowed a 95 yard kickoff return for a touchdown, a fumble on offense which set up a 32 yard field goal and a fumble on offense which was returned for a touchdown.  Really, really bad.....2 fumbles and bad kickoff coverage in the first few minutes.

However, after that, we outscored CCSU by 38-14, not great, but not bad, considering that Chase had gone out by the third quarter with his injury.

Those initial mistakes really made us look bad and it does look bad for a team to do that, but in totality, after our mistakes, we weren't that bad and our defense came through for us at the end.

I'm hoping for no mistakes against EWU and our defense to hold up.  Apparently, their defense is no great shakes either (although they did play two really good teams to start).
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« Reply #188 on: September 11, 2017, 06:25:06 pm »

I agree with this post ....either way we are still 1 and 1 after the first 2 games....pretty much where we thought we would be
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« Reply #189 on: September 11, 2017, 06:40:02 pm »

and then to add insult to injury we see this article in the New Jersey Herald of all places (I have never heard of it) that walks through a day in the life of AB as a coach.  The article mentions ZERO about Defense or Special Teams.
Are you familiar with the Associated Press? Because that's who wrote the story.  And the article makes zero mention of defense and special teams, because the whole article is about creating an offensive game plan, an aspect of the game in which Breiner has earned a strong reputation due to the role he played in our offense the last five years.  You have some points I agree with scattered throughout this thread, but 07 is eating your lunch in this debate, and I think 71 summed up most of our feelings best.  A lot of it comes back to preseason expectations.

That said, offline I have been critical of Breiner since the Navy game last year, mostly for reasons already mentioned, so I get the current level of concern, frustration, disappointment, criticism, etc.  I also think the comparisons to Pecora have some merit - I'd rather see Breiner drawing up new plays in the dirt with a stick than sticking to his playbook as we're getting our asses kicked.  Obviously if he succeeds we succeed, so I want to see him right the ship.  Maybe CCSU and Army are better than we expected.  Did Monmouth just smoke Lehigh? Maybe I was overreacting to that loss last season.  I felt penalties were a problem under Moorhead too, so maybe this isn't such a red flag.  Maybe the first two games were an anomaly or maybe the beginning of a sophomore slump for the young head coach.  Time will tell, but a lot of the conclusions and criticisms are unwarranted and just plain silly.  Rich Rodriguez is a poor mentor?  Breiner took one idea from the guy at a coaching clinic!  Breiner's unfit to coach?  We'll be lucky to win three games?  He still has a winning record and two of his losses came against offenses that legitimate FBS squads have difficulty defending.  I would've liked to have seen a real coaching search two years ago, and I think his hiring was probably premature (game preparation, play calling, defense, special teams, penalties are driving me nuts too), but I'm sure as Hell not running Breiner out of town in week 2.
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« Reply #190 on: September 11, 2017, 08:08:55 pm »

I'm not understanding the issue with a "cheat sheet".  I don't know a lot of coaches who don't use something like that.  I've always thought it was pretty basic to coaching.
I believe the point is, of course he uses a cheat sheet. Everyone does. The piece written positions him as some guru, when in fact, he is doing the same $hit most coaches do at the high school level. IMO it shows a lack of self awareness and maturity. It is comical.
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« Reply #191 on: September 11, 2017, 10:55:41 pm »

Just one other thought on the CCSU game.  It actually may have looked worse than it was.

We were down 17-0 after the first few minutes of the game because we allowed a 95 yard kickoff return for a touchdown, a fumble on offense which set up a 32 yard field goal and a fumble on offense which was returned for a touchdown.  Really, really bad.....2 fumbles and bad kickoff coverage in the first few minutes.

However, after that, we outscored CCSU by 38-14, not great, but not bad, considering that Chase had gone out by the third quarter with his injury.

Those initial mistakes really made us look bad and it does look bad for a team to do that, but in totality, after our mistakes, we weren't that bad and our defense came through for us at the end.

I'm hoping for no mistakes against EWU and our defense to hold up.  Apparently, their defense is no great shakes either (although they did play two really good teams to start).


Richie, there were two instances later in the game when CCSU receivers were wide open in the secondary. Wide open.

EWU will make us pay for that.
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« Reply #192 on: September 12, 2017, 07:34:28 am »

The hiring of Breiner reminds me of the hiring of Dabo Swinney by Clemson. I believe Dabo was the tight ends coach and I know he was promoted over several coaches on the staff and there was no national search. That hire has worked out pretty well.


He was the OC and then made interim head coach before he was hired.

For every Dabo there is an Ed Foley. If you go in this unorthodox direction and promote a 31 y/o coach, the leash is likely short.  Hopefully it works out but it will inevitably lead to high scrutiny if things go sideways, based on the nature of the hire.  We are still 1-1 and 1-0 in our level of play, so its not all bad at this juncture. Plenty of talent on this team.
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« Reply #193 on: September 12, 2017, 08:30:09 am »

Programs that are winning oftentimes hire from within. I was and am still ok with the hire. I think the program had a bit more sustained success than under Clawson and the move was worth taking. I do agree that the leash should be shorter in this type of situation since it was a calculated risk.
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« Reply #194 on: September 12, 2017, 08:39:03 am »

here's the quote from the article:  

I don't read "mentor" out of that.  I read "he had a good idea at a clinic I attended".  


Some people like to stretch the truth or just come up with their own version of the truth to fit their narrative. I try to ignore it, but I must admit I do a poor job of it  Evil
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« Reply #195 on: September 12, 2017, 11:25:33 am »

We are 1-1 which is exactly where we should be.  There is a ton of stuff that we need to clean up but let's not go into full on Category 5 panic mode just yet.  After watching the Army game, it is clear this was an unwinnable game for us.  I would be surprised if Army is not ranked before the season is throug.  The CCSU game was disappointing, and I have serious concerns about our injuries, but we bounced back from a 17-0 deficit which says something about us.  The poor special teams play and - at times - porous defense says something about us too.  Coach B and his staff clearly need to work on those things, but let's wait until the PL games begin before writing this team off.   
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« Reply #196 on: September 12, 2017, 11:56:00 am »

My God ... we sure can jump in the muck and roll around in it faster than any population I've ever seen.   

The young man starts his career 9-4 and gets this load of crap dumped on his locker room door!

When did we turn into entitled Crimson Tide fans?  When did we get the 'right' to be this way? Of course have the 'right' to be delusional, unreasonable, unrealistic, nit-picky (Rich Rodriguez cheat sheet triggers some!).... even bitter.  But it is corrosive. It's not a positive force.

It hurts fundraising
It hurts recruiting  (yes... recruits and their dads read these boards if they are serious about a program)

Here's a hypothetical  .... suppose we go a disappointing 7-4 or 6-5.  Would you really derail two years of recruiting, lose young players, lose the best assistants, push back program gains ... double down on risk ....  by switching horses?
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« Reply #197 on: September 12, 2017, 12:39:46 pm »

Wow, let's taste the soup before we salt it. There are people grumbling on the EWU fan board about their new HC a hire from within. Only two games into the season. Let's pump the breaks. Go Rams!
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« Reply #198 on: September 12, 2017, 01:43:12 pm »



It hurts fundraising
It hurts recruiting  (yes... recruits and their dads read these boards if they are serious about a program)

Here's a hypothetical  .... suppose we go a disappointing 7-4 or 6-5.  Would you really derail two years of recruiting, lose young players, lose the best assistants, push back program gains ... double down on risk ....  by switching horses?

Every coach is on the hot seat the day they accept the job.  When you hire a 31 y.o guy, the leash is shorter.....its reality.......but the football guys and Gridiron folks at Fordham have been pretty smart with the hiring and firing, so I agree to let it pan out.......if it doesn't the right folks are in place to make decisions, in my view.....they have proven themselves....
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« Reply #199 on: September 12, 2017, 05:24:18 pm »

Dabo was NOT the Offensive Coordinator.
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« Reply #200 on: September 13, 2017, 07:08:02 am »

Breiner is 9-4 in his head coaching career.  Two of those losses are to FBS teams.  He obviously must be fired.
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« Reply #201 on: September 13, 2017, 07:46:11 am »

Dabo was NOT the Offensive Coordinator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabo_Swinney

In 2008, he was the OC  interim HC, according to Wiki. He also played at Alabama and had 7 years of coaching experience under his belt at the best program in the country. 

Regardless, anyone with a functioning brain stem can see that right now this team appears discombobulated from a coaching standpoint. You dont wait it out like Frank to let it hit rock bottom. You start to evaluate right now.  Anyone with 5 seconds of experience in sports knows that you start to evaluate the day the coach is hired. And right now there are a lot of red flags. Red flags often mean nothing this early, and things straighten out.....but it doesnt mean that you ignore them. This is a sports discussion board so of course people will be pointing to the obvious red flags.....porous D line, completely inept special teams and a kicker who cant lift it 2 feet off the ground.....the HC hired a new D coordinator this year and to me that is the biggest question mark right now....that hire by the HC...but again, the football and Gridiron folks have a proven track record of knowing what they are doing, so I trust it is in good hands.
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ace93
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« Reply #202 on: September 13, 2017, 08:11:34 am »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabo_Swinney

In 2008, he was the OC  interim HC, according to Wiki. He also played at Alabama and had 7 years of coaching experience under his belt at the best program in the country. 

Regardless, anyone with a functioning brain stem can see that right now this team appears discombobulated from a coaching standpoint. You dont wait it out like Frank to let it hit rock bottom. You start to evaluate right now.  Anyone with 5 seconds of experience in sports knows that you start to evaluate the day the coach is hired. And right now there are a lot of red flags. Red flags often mean nothing this early, and things straighten out.....but it doesnt mean that you ignore them. This is a sports discussion board so of course people will be pointing to the obvious red flags.....porous D line, completely inept special teams and a kicker who cant lift it 2 feet off the ground.....the HC hired a new D coordinator this year and to me that is the biggest question mark right now....that hire by the HC...but again, the football and Gridiron folks have a proven track record of knowing what they are doing, so I trust it is in good hands.

From the same wiki page:
Many fans and pundits criticized his lack of coordinator let alone head coaching experience, as well as the fact that he had been on the staff of fired coach Tommy Bowden.

From Tommy Bowden's wikie page:
Assistant head coach/wide receivers coach Dabo Swinney was named as interim head coach for the remainder of the season.
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« Reply #203 on: September 13, 2017, 08:50:36 am »

He was "interim" HC and OC at the same time. Then after that short stint, they hired him as permanent HC. But its splitting hairs. He spent 7 years at Alabama and there is absolutely zero correlation between his hiring and success to us hiring a 31 y/o head coach with no search process.

I understand the dynamic,  a hot young up and comer and he could have been scooped up by a big program as OC . So Fordham struck quickly and took the calculated risk of hiring such a young coach. Is he the youngest HC in D1 football?  It will inevitably meet with great scrutiny and a short leash, that is how it works. Coaches understand that, goes with the territory.
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« Reply #204 on: September 13, 2017, 09:02:49 am »

He was "interim" HC and OC at the same time. Then after that short stint, they hired him as permanent HC. But its splitting hairs. He spent 7 years at Alabama and there is absolutely zero correlation between his hiring and success to us hiring a 31 y/o head coach with no search process.

I understand the dynamic,  a hot young up and comer and he could have been scooped up by a big program as OC . So Fordham struck quickly and took the calculated risk of hiring such a young coach. Is he the youngest HC in D1 football?  It will inevitably meet with great scrutiny and a short leash, that is how it works. Coaches understand that, goes with the territory.

It might be splitting hairs, but you went there. He inherited the OC as the same time he inherited the HC, so he was never an OC before being a HC.  As southcarolinaram pointed out, there is a correlation in that there was no national search. Perhaps not enough of a correlation, that can be argued, but certainly not zero correlation.

I agree that the leash right now should be short. Need to be on top of it now, so that it does not spiral.
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« Reply #205 on: September 13, 2017, 09:29:58 am »

It might be splitting hairs, but you went there. He inherited the OC as the same time he inherited the HC, so he was never an OC before being a HC.  As southcarolinaram pointed out, there is a correlation in that there was no national search. Perhaps not enough of a correlation, that can be argued, but certainly not zero correlation.

I agree that the leash right now should be short. Need to be on top of it now, so that it does not spiral.

What leash would you like to see?  He's the coach now.  Once you hire a guy it's his show.  This was a weak hire on the basis of not doing a search.  On paper, he's done well, as has been pointed out. He's the coach now until he's not. 
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« Reply #206 on: September 13, 2017, 09:44:58 am »

Breiner is 9-4 in his head coaching career.  Two of those losses are to FBS teams.  He obviously must be fired.

^^^ thank you
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« Reply #207 on: September 13, 2017, 09:45:04 am »

What leash would you like to see?  He's the coach now.  Once you hire a guy it's his show.  This was a weak hire on the basis of not doing a search.  On paper, he's done well, as has been pointed out. He's the coach now until he's not. 

If we're going to use basketball analogies... how about Foley's leash v. Pecora's leash. One extended about 2 years, the other about 5.
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« Reply #208 on: September 13, 2017, 09:45:50 am »

^^^ thank you

I actually pointed that out maybe 2-3 pages ago but was told that I "don't get it." Whatever that means.
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« Reply #209 on: September 13, 2017, 09:46:15 am »

What leash would you like to see?  He's the coach now.  Once you hire a guy it's his show.  This was a weak hire on the basis of not doing a search.  On paper, he's done well, as has been pointed out. He's the coach now until he's not. 

I do not want to see the leash. That's done internally. Point being, you give him less opportunity to fail than you would if say Moorhead had a down year. We are not there yet though.
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