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« Reply #210 on: September 13, 2017, 09:51:13 am »

It might be splitting hairs, but you went there. He inherited the OC as the same time he inherited the HC, so he was never an OC before being a HC.  As southcarolinaram pointed out, there is a correlation in that there was no national search. Perhaps not enough of a correlation, that can be argued, but certainly not zero correlation.

I agree that the leash right now should be short. Need to be on top of it now, so that it does not spiral.

He was still the OC, even for a short period of time. He was not the HC he was the interim HC. Like Jared.

Comparing the national champions and a coach with Alabama pedigree to a coach with Lock Haven pedigree is no correlation. You want to find a very young HC at our level who succeeded, then we can discuss, but tapping into a guy who played at Alabama and coached for 7 years at Alabama , to me, is apples and oranges. We obviously have one very pertinent example in Ed Foley. 

The leash is shorter because we were a perennial national power and have a very large budget and a any roll back to mediocrity should not be tolerated. Its been definitively proven that you can win here. The bar should be set very high.  And, I am just surmising but I would assume he is not locked into a long term, high dollar contract, which always shortens a leash.  That's what killed us with Hill and Pecora. You want a seasoned HC then you have to give them a long term deal. You take a flyer on a hot up and comer, you dont need to do that.
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« Reply #211 on: September 13, 2017, 09:57:23 am »

He was still the OC, even for a short period of time. He was not the HC he was the interim HC. Like Jared.

Comparing the national champions and a coach with Alabama pedigree to a coach with Lock Haven pedigree is no correlation. You want to find a very young HC at our level who succeeded, then we can discuss, but tapping into a guy who played at Alabama and coached for 7 years at Alabama , to me, is apples and oranges. We obviously have one very pertinent example in Ed Foley. 

The leash is shorter because we were a perennial national power and have a very large budget and a any roll back to mediocrity should not be tolerated. Its been definitively proven that you can win here. The bar should be set very high.  And, I am just surmising but I would assume he is not locked into a long term, high dollar contract, which always shortens a leash. 

I said I agree with the leash being short.

As to the correlation, you are splitting hairs.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #212 on: September 13, 2017, 09:59:09 am »

Clemson are the national champions and they hired a coach who played and coached at Alabama. That's a different world than the Patriot League and a coach from Lock Haven,

   
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« Reply #213 on: September 13, 2017, 10:06:16 am »

Clemson are the national champions and they hired a coach who played and coached at Alabama. That's a different world than the Patriot League and a coach from Lock Haven, 

At that level, hiring a coach with zero HC/OC experience after no national search is crazier than a PL team that has had average success in the playoffs hiring their current OC as head coach.
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« Reply #214 on: September 13, 2017, 10:56:15 am »

I actually pointed that out maybe 2-3 pages ago but was told that I "don't get it." Whatever that means.

hahahah this place is a trip

I love it though
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« Reply #215 on: September 13, 2017, 11:00:35 am »

hahahah this place is a trip

I love it though

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« Reply #216 on: September 13, 2017, 11:11:07 am »

I actually pointed that out maybe 2-3 pages ago but was told that I "don't get it." Whatever that means.

No, you get it.  And "it" is despite obvious preparation concerns evident at the start of our first two games, this coach has to date done what is expected of him, and should be allowed to work on these concerns without negativity from us.  I'm sure he's well aware that the team has not come onto the field adequately prepared and that he's working on that.
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« Reply #217 on: September 13, 2017, 11:37:37 am »

Likely new thread worthy but the issue to me is what is the expectation of the program in the post Morehead era?  To me its to be in the playoffs every year or be in contention for a bid at year's end. Some of that of course is out of your hands. Its been proven it can be done here. Last year, one bad loss and we just missed, so that is pretty close. 9-3 I would say is meeting  expectation level. But if we slip to .500 this year, then what?  I like this coach and with a new DC, its a lot of work, but expectations are high as the bar was set very high by the prior coach.   
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« Reply #218 on: September 13, 2017, 12:19:13 pm »

You can't ignore that the rest of the PL now has several years of scholarships.  The playing field is level so I would expect us to lose more games now regardless of who the coach is. 
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« Reply #219 on: September 13, 2017, 01:08:42 pm »


Regardless, anyone with a functioning brain stem can see that right now this team appears discombobulated from a coaching standpoint. You dont wait it out like Frank to let it hit rock bottom. You start to evaluate right now.  Anyone with 5 seconds of experience in sports knows that you start to evaluate the day the coach is hired. And right now there are a lot of red flags. Red flags often mean nothing this early, and things straighten out.....but it doesnt mean that you ignore them. This is a sports discussion board so of course people will be pointing to the obvious red flags.....porous D line, completely inept special teams and a kicker who cant lift it 2 feet off the ground.....the HC hired a new D coordinator this year and to me that is the biggest question mark right now....that hire by the HC...but again, the football and Gridiron folks have a proven track record of knowing what they are doing, so I trust it is in good hands.

I think that is fair. Evaluation from day 1 .... definitely.

I'll never forget the quote from one of the Mara's during Bill Parcell's first year as Head Coach.  He let it slip ... "well, what I think is Bill Parcells is a terrific Assistant Coach"

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« Reply #220 on: September 13, 2017, 01:44:38 pm »

No, you get it.  And "it" is despite obvious preparation concerns evident at the start of our first two games, this coach has to date done what is expected of him, and should be allowed to work on these concerns without negativity from us.  I'm sure he's well aware that the team has not come onto the field adequately prepared and that he's working on that.

FWIW, it would b great to hear words to that effect from the coach's post game remarks.
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« Reply #221 on: September 13, 2017, 02:28:12 pm »

FWIW, it would b great to hear words to that effect from the coach's post game remarks.
If you are referring to the e-mail we received earlier this week, I agree 100%.  Replied in a respectful fashion but cited our non-show at Army and falling behind by 17 v CCSU.  Almost, but didn't, take exception to him lauding the team effort coming back from a 17 point deficit.  The "team" are the ones who got us into the deficit in the first place with some help from the coaches.  Hope I am wrong but Saturday could be very ugly.
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« Reply #222 on: September 13, 2017, 03:00:53 pm »

If you are referring to the e-mail we received earlier this week, I agree 100%.  Replied in a respectful fashion but cited our non-show at Army and falling behind by 17 v CCSU.  Almost, but didn't, take exception to him lauding the team effort coming back from a 17 point deficit.  The "team" are the ones who got us into the deficit in the first place with some help from the coaches.  Hope I am wrong but Saturday could be very ugly.

Yes and this from post game (Hartford Courant):

"You had two teams who left it all out on the field today," said the 33-year-old, baby-faced Breiner, who went 8-3 in his first season after replacing Joe Moorhead. "We got the pick six at the end, and that was ultimately the difference but a testament to how special the game of football is. I'm incredibly proud of our young men and battling through some adversity, battling from being down and coming back. I'm really impressed by them and proud of them."

Now, I understand the power of positive thinking, but I like the idea (the necessity) of the coach setting the tone for the program. I think that it's great that he lauds the players for tenacity, but it would be entirely appropriate for him to say that the slow starts (and other negatives) in the first two games of the season are unacceptable.

Poor ball security, bad special teams play, blown assignments in the secondary. These need to be called out. Play like that in the league and they will be toast.
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« Reply #223 on: September 13, 2017, 04:11:54 pm »

Yes and this from post game (Hartford Courant):

"You had two teams who left it all out on the field today," said the 33-year-old, baby-faced Breiner, who went 8-3 in his first season after replacing Joe Moorhead. "We got the pick six at the end, and that was ultimately the difference but a testament to how special the game of football is. I'm incredibly proud of our young men and battling through some adversity, battling from being down and coming back. I'm really impressed by them and proud of them."

Now, I understand the power of positive thinking, but I like the idea (the necessity) of the coach setting the tone for the program. I think that it's great that he lauds the players for tenacity, but it would be entirely appropriate for him to say that the slow starts (and other negatives) in the first two games of the season are unacceptable.

Poor ball security, bad special teams play, blown assignments in the secondary. These need to be called out. Play like that in the league and they will be toast.

I am not convinced it needs to be called out publicly.
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« Reply #224 on: September 13, 2017, 04:39:19 pm »

This week will be telling. Week 3. At Home vs a premier program. This is the type of game we should compete in like we did with Villanova when they played at our place. If we are not competitive then I think we need to start questioning the direction.
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« Reply #225 on: September 13, 2017, 05:04:50 pm »

Yes and this from post game (Hartford Courant):

"You had two teams who left it all out on the field today," said the 33-year-old, baby-faced Breiner, who went 8-3 in his first season after replacing Joe Moorhead. "We got the pick six at the end, and that was ultimately the difference but a testament to how special the game of football is. I'm incredibly proud of our young men and battling through some adversity, battling from being down and coming back. I'm really impressed by them and proud of them."

Now, I understand the power of positive thinking, but I like the idea (the necessity) of the coach setting the tone for the program. I think that it's great that he lauds the players for tenacity, but it would be entirely appropriate for him to say that the slow starts (and other negatives) in the first two games of the season are unacceptable.

Poor ball security, bad special teams play, blown assignments in the secondary. These need to be called out. Play like that in the league and they will be toast.

there's no question he's chewing them out behind closed doors. The media is no place for a coach to admonish his team, and neither is an email to alums.
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« Reply #226 on: September 13, 2017, 06:10:04 pm »

there's no question he's chewing them out behind closed doors. The media is no place for a coach to admonish his team, and neither is an email to alums.

I think it's perfectly OK to say "we need to value the ball more, we need to play better on special teams, we need to be ready before the first whistle, and we need to have the team better prepared."

There needs to be a clear, consistent message of expectations for the program, what is acceptable and what is not. That message should not vary from private to public. It won't (and shouldn't) be expressed in the same terms or at the same volume, and I'm not saying he should call out individuals.

But saying "I'm impressed" doesn't strike me as the message you want to send.

Players, family, and friends read the media. They see what he says.  There should be no mixed message.

It's a small thing, but I don't think it's insignificant.
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« Reply #227 on: September 13, 2017, 09:49:41 pm »

I know where you're coming from, '71.  There's a difference between saying something that accentuates the positive (even if behind closed doors you're ripping into them) versus coming off as genuinely pleased with how things played out.  Tough to pin it down exactly but this comes off too much like the former and not enough of the latter. 

Regardless, let's hope we show up and play like the team we were all hoping for on Saturday!
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« Reply #228 on: September 13, 2017, 10:01:00 pm »

I am not convinced it needs to be called out publicly.

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« Reply #229 on: September 14, 2017, 08:04:01 am »

there's no question he's chewing them out behind closed doors. The media is no place for a coach to admonish his team, and neither is an email to alums.

Unfortunately, coach speak is important these days.  You can lose a fan base very quickly if you talk nonsense to them.  Every coach has a style of speaking. Nick was the other way, his players always were awful ...... but it was somewhat comical to hear him speak.......Hill was a crackpot and that was pretty quickly understood when he opened his mouth.....Pecora talked utter nonsense about building a program and he lost the fans very quickly because of the complete disconnect between what was happening on the court and what he was saying......Moorhead I thought, spoke very well, and he made a lot of sense when he discussed things with the fans.....you start talking in Pecora-ese and you can alienate some fans very quickly....its not easy these days with all the media coverage.....some coaches take the high road and praise the team and then take the bullet and blame themselves for any shortcomings......but its just one game and we did win it...... but the jury is out on how we perform going forward.....a win this weekend shuts all of us up.....for quite some time!
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