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Patriot league is now the worst fcs conf in the country


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Author Topic: Patriot league is now the worst fcs conf in the country  (Read 3228 times)
2ram
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« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2017, 10:33:12 pm »

I basically agree. I think the PL is a great place for Fordham to be.  No issue with 3 less scholarships, the AI or red shirting.

i have no issue with the AI or 3 less scholarships, but redshirting i do.
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xtey92a
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2017, 07:48:11 pm »

What do you suggest we do to improve the PL?
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2017, 09:02:04 pm »

Get schools that'll  think football is important.  There are 3 IMO.
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2017, 09:15:36 pm »

What do you suggest we do to improve the PL?

We must reinitiate the JCF Renovation that was cancelled/postponed 5 years ago.  The plan was in place, the baseball team had a temporary home during construction....it all made sense.  Our facilities are a laughingstock and now that the scholarship landscape is totally equal in the PL we must get the JCF restarted.  If we don't then we will have an inferior football program for the next 15 years until another group of concerned Fordham loyalists rattle the cage of the BOT.....anything else is not going to work.  The carrot dangling for the new coach is to make concrete promises that construction will start within the next 12 months.  No other option will make a difference.

A JCF renovation will also put the other PL members on notice to do something with their facilities to keep up.  It will help the entire conference.
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Rich93
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2017, 09:25:05 pm »

We must reinitiate the JCF Renovation that was cancelled/postponed 5 years ago.  The plan was in place, the baseball team had a temporary home during construction....it all made sense.  Our facilities are a laughingstock and now that the scholarship landscape is totally equal in the PL we must get the JCF restarted.  If we don't then we will have an inferior football program for the next 15 years until another group of concerned Fordham loyalists rattle the cage of the BOT.....anything else is not going to work.  The carrot dangling for the new coach is to make concrete promises that construction will start within the next 12 months.  No other option will make a difference.

A JCF renovation will also put the other PL members on notice to do something with their facilities to keep up.  It will help the entire conference.

Doing that before fixing our student center, building a science center and getting a legitimate convocation center would be the stupidest thing of all time.  You donít spend that money on FCS PL football when your student facilities are a disgrace.  Ready fire aim!
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2017, 09:42:28 pm »

Doing that before fixing our student center, building a science center and getting a legitimate convocation center would be the stupidest thing of all time.  You donít spend that money on FCS PL football when your student facilities are a disgrace.  Ready fire aim!

it is actually "Fire, Ready, Aim"....but who is keeping track?  Well I was just responding to "what needs to be done".  Enjoy inferior football for the foreseeable future then.
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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2017, 10:09:04 pm »

it is actually "Fire, Read, Aim"....but who is keeping track?  Well I was just responding to "what needs to be done".  Enjoy inferior football for the foreseeable future then.

Read or ready?  Letís get this right.  Inferior football I laughed at that good one. Really nailed it.
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« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2017, 10:11:17 pm »

Read or ready?  Letís get this right.  Inferior football I laughed at that good one. Really nailed it.

Yes, my mistake.  Ready, obviously.
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NYRam07
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2017, 08:44:05 pm »

i have no issue with the AI or 3 less scholarships, but redshirting i do.

What is your problem with red shirts? Just wondering.
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« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2017, 09:26:46 pm »

What is your problem with red shirts? Just wondering.

I actually 100% agree with NYRam07 here on this issue.
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2017, 10:16:22 pm »

What is your problem with red shirts? Just wondering.

I think he is saying that he has no issue with the AI, the lack of 3 more scholarships, but he does have an issue with the PL not allowing redshirts.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2017, 10:21:53 pm »

I think he is saying that he has no issue with the AI, the lack of 3 more scholarships, but he does have an issue with the PL not allowing redshirts.

Ahh ok after rereading I could see That. If that's the case, my bad 2ram
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« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2017, 03:31:13 pm »

on the any given Saturday website ..  in addition to the AI and no redshirt rule.. 

another hurdle,  Lehigh Football Nation - supporter and a few other posters think what hurts is the smaller size of PL rosters (90 PL limit) in comparison to CAA, NEC , IVY etc.  the tough academic requirements and the high cost of PL schools limits the number and quality walk ons they get.  HS players who feel they are FCS level skill set (but dont have scholarship offers) have to excellent grades,  and cough up a lot of money just to walk on.  Sure guys 61-80 generally don't affect the W-L column   but with injuries,  bodies for practice and lack of depth during games its another obstacle the PL has in regard to its competition.       
 
2017 roster size
Villanova: 92
Monmouth: 101
Yale: 107
Penn: 102
Wagner: 130
Colgate: 83
Duquesne 101

 
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« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2017, 03:58:29 pm »

on the any given Saturday website ..  in addition to the AI and no redshirt rule.. 

another hurdle,  Lehigh Football Nation - supporter and a few other posters think what hurts is the smaller size of PL rosters (90 PL limit) in comparison to CAA, NEC , IVY etc.  the tough academic requirements and the high cost of PL schools limits the number and quality walk ons they get.  HS players who feel they are FCS level skill set (but dont have scholarship offers) have to excellent grades,  and cough up a lot of money just to walk on.  Sure guys 61-80 generally don't affect the W-L column   but with injuries,  bodies for practice and lack of depth during games its another obstacle the PL has in regard to its competition.       
 
2017 roster size
Villanova: 92
Monmouth: 101
Yale: 107
Penn: 102
Wagner: 130
Colgate: 83
Duquesne 101

 

I think you are missing the point on why the PL sets these limits.  The schools by and large don't want to compete on that level.  If we get there, great.  It's not the goal though. 
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« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2017, 04:11:21 pm »

I basically agree. I think the PL is a great place for Fordham to be.  No issue with 3 less scholarships, the AI or red shirting.

This is a far cry from the we spend too much money and should go to the Pioneer League opinion you set out in the unc thread.
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« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2017, 04:23:21 pm »

This is a far cry from the we spend too much money and should go to the Pioneer League opinion you set out in the unc thread.

I'm glad you pay so much attention to my posts!!!

My thoughts are evolving. If the university isn't going to support the program on equal terms with the competition, I'd rather be someplace where we are on a level field.  Our success was due to scholarships and a great coach who seized opportunity. I dont think we are on equal footing with the PL any longer. 

Depending on what the budget numbers look like, the NEC might make sense. 

Holy Cross is spending $75 mil on facilities.  Fordham is begging for offices and classroom space.  What am I missing?
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« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2017, 05:46:03 pm »

I'm glad you pay so much attention to my posts!!!

My thoughts are evolving. If the university isn't going to support the program on equal terms with the competition, I'd rather be someplace where we are on a level field.  Our success was due to scholarships and a great coach who seized opportunity. I dont think we are on equal footing with the PL any longer. 

Depending on what the budget numbers look like, the NEC might make sense. 

Holy Cross is spending $75 mil on facilities.  Fordham is begging for offices and classroom space.  What am I missing?

All that changed in the last 7 days?!
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2017, 07:01:58 pm »

All that changed in the last 7 days?!

Pretty much.  It's been gradual but I'm over the edge now.   I've come to the conclusion that $26mil+ for athletics and not much to show for is far too much.  I've been a proponent of returning to the MAAC for years.  No secret.  I don't think the University is serious about football.  The rest of the PL (except G'town) is pulling away. 

I can't think of an athletic program with any real measure of success that isn't investing in facilities.  Fordham will be the exception?  Really?  We can't get freakin' offices built.  What is that?  I said at the time that hiring AB could be the beginning of a long slow decline. I'm convinced of it now.   

We had a great run in football. Arguably the best run of any team in Fordham history.  We play a top program at home and have 3000 attendance?  The school didn't market the game.  Outside of entertaining a few dozen alums, is there a reason we have this program?  And basketball isn't much better.  We hear all the time that we make all kinds of money even though we never make the tournament.  It turns out we make $400k. What's the basketball budget, $ 5 million?   And it's not near enough because we don't have an arena that will cost $75 mil on the cheap. 

We need to fund these programs at the level it takes go be successful (operating and capital funding) or move to the level we can be with a $26 mil budget.   What we're doing doesn't work. 
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« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2017, 07:08:39 pm »

Pretty much.  It's been gradual but I'm over the edge now.   I've come to the conclusion that $26mil+ for athletics and not much to show for is far too much.  I've been a proponent of returning to the MAAC for years.  No secret.  I don't think the University is serious about football.  The rest of the PL (except G'town) is pulling away. 

I can't think of an athletic program with any real measure of success that isn't investing in facilities.  Fordham will be the exception?  Really?  We can't get freakin' offices built.  What is that?  I said at the time that hiring AB could be the beginning of a long slow decline. I'm convinced of it now.   

We had a great run in football. Arguably the best run of any team in Fordham history.  We play a top program at home and have 3000 attendance?  The school didn't market the game.  Outside of entertaining a few dozen alums, is there a reason we have this program?  And basketball isn't much better.  We hear all the time that we make all kinds of money even though we never make the tournament.  It turns out we make $400k. What's the basketball budget, $ 5 million?   And it's not near enough because we don't have an arena that will cost $75 mil on the cheap. 

We need to fund these programs at the level it takes go be successful (operating and capital funding) or move to the level we can be with a $26 mil budget.   What we're doing doesn't work. 

AOC, we aren't even in a "Fire, Ready, Aim" situation with our athletic programs.  We are in a complete Miss-Fire state with our athletic programs.
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« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2017, 07:22:50 pm »

We are winning in every sport.  The football situation is the result of one lazy, poorly thought out, ill conceived hire. It wiill be fixed in 5 weeks. Hang in there.

Kind of ironic the similarities between McAdoo and Breiner.

We have a good football program, good players. This was a flyer taken on a coach,  it will be fixed. Belichick, Shottenheimer, Carrol and many others failed at a job when they were too young, it happens. Parcells was damn close to getting canned too. Doesnt mean Breiner cant coach, he just isn't ready.
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« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2017, 08:04:12 pm »

We are winning in every sport.  The football situation is the result of one lazy, poorly thought out, ill conceived hire. It wiill be fixed in 5 weeks. Hang in there.

Kind of ironic the similarities between McAdoo and Breiner.

We have a good football program, good players. This was a flyer taken on a coach,  it will be fixed. Belichick, Shottenheimer, Carrol and many others failed at a job when they were too young, it happens. Parcells was damn close to getting canned too. Doesnt mean Breiner cant coach, he just isn't ready.

I hope you're right.  I don't know that this administration can or wants to rebuild the program.  Roach will do what he's told to do and I don't think his orders will be, "return to glory."
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« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2017, 08:11:02 pm »

whatever happened to hard work and perseverance?  Since when do we quit after a bad year and a bad hire?  Not sure this is how successful people and institutions approach obstacles. 
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« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2017, 08:21:42 pm »

I truly believe the administration does not want a program that is as successful as we were under Moorhead.  I think they want Georgetown with scholarships.   I will happily be wrong. 
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« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2017, 08:36:41 am »

I hope you're right.  I don't know that this administration can or wants to rebuild the program.  Roach will do what he's told to do and I don't think his orders will be, "return to glory."

He doesnt have to do a lot.  Even a dunce like Frank could get lucky and find a good coach and they take it from there. Good $, good school, schollies, D1. We can get a good coach, we have gotten several previously. It's a fantastic stepping stone job. You just need to do your homework. This hire was mailed in.
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« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2017, 10:19:08 am »

I truly believe the administration does not want a program that is as successful as we were under Moorhead.  I think they want Georgetown with scholarships.   I will happily be wrong. 

I'm sure you know, GTown is finally investing in Fball.
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« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2017, 11:10:21 am »

AOC has an interesting and perhaps accurate view of what is going on at Fordham.  I saw something like this happen 40+ years ago when the then NOVA administration starved a fairly competitive 1A program to death.  NOVA was able to attract top line athletes, think Howie Long, among others, and as late as the early 60's went to two bowls, when an invite meant you were a competitive team.  The Administration at the time was ambivalent about athletics in general and anti FB in particular, so it w/held resources until the program was on a path to non-competitivness and then, when no one was looking, pulled the plug.  Interestingly the last team was well stocked, 3 players made the Ohio State squad , two as starters, the following year and the coup de grace was administered before any success could be realized.  It took a concerted effort by interested alums to bring the sport back at 1AA but it is where it belongs today and resources are available to ensure competitiveness.

F's victory over a good NOVA team a few years back (an event that left me with somewhat mixed emotions) and its subsequent near dominance of PL was an opportunity to establish the program as an important element to F's brand, but efforts needed to be made to ride the wind.  It also was a threat to those who didn't desire the promised success so perhaps they took a page out of NOVA'S history.  Kill it before it becomes too difficult to accomplish.

I hope I am wrong, but AOC reminds me of a dark past.
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« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2017, 11:23:26 am »

NOVA It's certainly started to look that way. But I hope that you're wrong.
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« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2017, 11:25:46 am »

Nonsense this conspiracy theory. It was one bad, lazy coaching hire. You go get a good coordinator from the next level who wants to be a HC and we are back at it.
 
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« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2017, 10:46:26 pm »

I'm sure you know, GTown is finally investing in Fball.

Really? Here are the PL football budgets from 2016 per EADA reports:

Fordham, $6.0M
Colgate, $5.6M
Lafayette, $5.6M
Holy Cross, $5.1M
Lehigh, $4.9M
Bucknell, $4.5M
...
Georgetown, $1.8M
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« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2017, 11:09:58 pm »

think he was referring to the 50MM gift G'Town got last year for athletics (athletic facility stadium field house locker room upgrades etc).  Anyway Holy Cross  is spending big money to upgrade..  Lafayette Lehigh and Colgate  Bucknell all have nicer facilities than Fordham.  Actually the majority of FCS programs do.  We have a one sided field and no field house. Coaches offices are from the 80's and a weight room underneath the stands that resembles a HS gym.  Worse yet is there is no plan to improve the situation.. our BOT and Athletic folks - hope one day... to also have the oldest football field in the nation .. to go along with the oldest gym in nation !  Rose Hill Gym.   
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