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Should Coach Breiner be on the "Hot Seat"


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Question: Should Coach Breiner be on the "Hot Seat"
Absolutely, he should be on the hot seat now - 38 (45.8%)
Yes, if we lose next week - 5 (6%)
Let's give it a few more games - 5 (6%)
Wait til the end of the year - 26 (31.3%)
No - 9 (10.8%)
Total Voters: 83

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Author Topic: Should Coach Breiner be on the "Hot Seat"  (Read 12466 times)
Ram-Spouse
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« Reply #330 on: October 15, 2017, 05:54:53 pm »

http://www.niuhuskies.com/coaches.aspx?rc=802&path=football

I think that the Mid American Conference is a good spot to look for coordinators to take over at our level.

+1
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Ramrookie21
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« Reply #331 on: October 15, 2017, 07:15:24 pm »

I have read the Football posts all season and have been entertained, amused, annoyed and bemused. As an ex D1 college player and parent of a D1 player, I am disappointed with the direction of the team under AB. I think it is a combination of things that have contributed to the poor performance this year but I don’t blame the players. Having 9 out of 14 coaches on staff join in 2016-2017 is a huge problem and those coaches have very little to no connection with the players. Offense AND Defensive play calling has been interesting to say the least. Execution in all three facets of the game has been problematic: special teams, defense and offense all need to be in step to have success. Playing kids out of position and injured doesn’t help. I agree that AB is in over his head but does he not recognize his limitations and challenges? Does he not have someone who can help him and guide him when he struggles?
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« Reply #332 on: October 15, 2017, 07:23:15 pm »

We have two times in (fairly) recent memory promoted a top assistant to fill the vacancy created by a successful coach moving on.  In both instances, we had a top 25 program that nosedived within two seasons.

Promotions of a top assistant are done in the name of continuity, but I'm not sure "continuity" is actually what you get when you promote an assistant.  

At major FBS programs, promoting an assistant often works.  At major FBS programs, you not only a deep and talented roster, but every coach on the staff has EARNED their way onto a major FBS staff, having proven themselves elsewhere.   You have a deep and proven staff.  When such a program promotes the assistant, that assistant has enough experience to understand that the manner by which he must now relate to the players must change. The relationship that the head football coach maintains with players differs from the relationship that an assistant coach can have with players.  So from the coach's perspective, there is no "continuity."  He knows he must change to fit the job of being the head coach.

When a major FBS program promotes from within, it is not do that for "continuity" sake.  It is done because the AD, or whoever makes the hire, believes that the top assistant has been groomed to be a top man and is now the best man available for the job.  And ultimately he gets the job because he is the best man available[/b] -- not because of "continuity."

When we have an opening, we have to hire the best man available. Period.  On an FCS, that man is seldom the top assistant.  FCS staffs just don't have that depth and experience.

So, the next time this happens,


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« Reply #333 on: October 15, 2017, 07:51:02 pm »

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/holy-cross-fire-gilmore-name-rock-interim-coach-101517

Holy Cross fires their coach today after 4 straight losses
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FUCoP69
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« Reply #334 on: October 15, 2017, 08:13:23 pm »


You're late to the party, Guru24. This was discussed this morning on the Patriot League Is Now The Worst...thread.  Cheesy
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« Reply #335 on: October 15, 2017, 08:29:19 pm »

I have read the Football posts all season and have been entertained, amused, annoyed and bemused. As an ex D1 college player and parent of a D1 player, I am disappointed with the direction of the team under AB. I think it is a combination of things that have contributed to the poor performance this year but I don’t blame the players. Having 9 out of 14 coaches on staff join in 2016-2017 is a huge problem and those coaches have very little to no connection with the players. Offense AND Defensive play calling has been interesting to say the least. Execution in all three facets of the game has been problematic: special teams, defense and offense all need to be in step to have success. Playing kids out of position and injured doesn’t help. I agree that AB is in over his head but does he not recognize his limitations and challenges? Does he not have someone who can help him and guide him when he struggles?

He has a young staff, noticeably absent of a couple of grey beards that could serve as senior counsellors. I believe that was out of design. 
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« Reply #336 on: October 15, 2017, 09:36:39 pm »

We have two times in (fairly) recent memory promoted a top assistant to fill the vacancy created by a successful coach moving on.  In both instances, we had a top 25 program that nosedived within two seasons.

Promotions of a top assistant are done in the name of continuity, but I'm not sure "continuity" is actually what you get when you promote an assistant.  

At major FBS programs, promoting an assistant often works.  At major FBS programs, you not only a deep and talented roster, but every coach on the staff has EARNED their way onto a major FBS staff, having proven themselves elsewhere.   You have a deep and proven staff.  When such a program promotes the assistant, that assistant has enough experience to understand that the manner by which he must now relate to the players must change. The relationship that the head football coach maintains with players differs from the relationship that an assistant coach can have with players.  So from the coach's perspective, there is no "continuity."  He knows he must change to fit the job of being the head coach.

When a major FBS program promotes from within, it is not do that for "continuity" sake.  It is done because the AD, or whoever makes the hire, believes that the top assistant has been groomed to be a top man and is now the best man available for the job.  And ultimately he gets the job because he is the best man available[/b] -- not because of "continuity."

When we have an opening, we have to hire the best man available. Period.  On an FCS, that man is seldom the top assistant.  FCS staffs just don't have that depth and experience.

So, the next time this happens,

To be fair, Clawson did not leave Foley a top 25 program. We went into Clawson’s final season in the top 25 but did not finish there. We finished 4-3 in the PL and not nationally ranked.
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« Reply #337 on: October 15, 2017, 10:59:36 pm »

Thanks for the insight. why would the Fordham brass have a young inexperienced coach lead a top 25 FCS program with having a mentor available or someone around to provide some degree of advisement? The youth of the staff is also a problem as it doesn’t seem any of them have any experience dealing with this type of poor performance (as evidenced by the sideline tantrums at Lafayette)  As Fordham Lurker accurately points out, promoting a “top” assistant doesn’t always work out. To me, lack of leadership is the root of the problem.
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« Reply #338 on: October 16, 2017, 09:11:07 am »

As Fordham Lurker accurately points out, promoting a “top” assistant doesn’t always work out. To me, lack of leadership is the root of the problem.
no, it doesn't but when Clawson and Moorhead left they both pressured the administration into elevating one of their assistants.  Clawson publicly endorsed Foley at the meet the recruits night which occurred the week he announced that he was leaving.  The late Richie Marin then endorsed hiring Foley and essentially threw the weight of the Gridiron club behind Foley.  Moorhead endorsed Breiner but not in the same way as Clawson and in both cases, the players pushed for the assistant to be promoted.  Both were bad decisions but let's not ignore the pressure that Fordham was under.  I'm sure everyone on this board thinks that they could have stood up to that pressure but don't kid yourself.  When a highly successful coach endorses a successor and the booster club is behind it and the players want it, it would take an unusually strong and bold AD to reject that candidate and hire someone else.
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« Reply #339 on: October 16, 2017, 09:28:34 am »

no, it doesn't but when Clawson and Moorhead left they both pressured the administration into elevating one of their assistants.  Clawson publicly endorsed Foley at the meet the recruits night which occurred the week he announced that he was leaving.  The late Richie Marin then endorsed hiring Foley and essentially threw the weight of the Gridiron club behind Foley.  Moorhead endorsed Breiner but not in the same way as Clawson and in both cases, the players pushed for the assistant to be promoted.  Both were bad decisions but let's not ignore the pressure that Fordham was under.  I'm sure everyone on this board thinks that they could have stood up to that pressure but don't kid yourself.  When a highly successful coach endorses a successor and the booster club is behind it and the players want it, it would take an unusually strong and bold AD to reject that candidate and hire someone else.
Very true. 
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Rich93
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« Reply #340 on: October 16, 2017, 09:34:09 am »

Good post on how the hire occurred.  Breiner does not deserve the personal vitriol he is getting from some.  He took a job and his shot to be a head coach.  You can’t fault him for that. He worked hard gave it his best shot. Lesson to be learned is that hiring an FCS coordinator to be a head coach is not the way to go. As someone else said the budget limits the depth of an FCS staff as opposed to FBS which pays coordinators well and prepares them to be head coaches.  Make a change after the year but no need to go after Breiner on a personal level. 
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« Reply #341 on: October 16, 2017, 09:47:07 am »

Good post on how the hire occurred.  Breiner does not deserve the personal vitriol he is getting from some.  He took a job and his shot to be a head coach.  You can’t fault him for that. He worked hard gave it his best shot. Lesson to be learned is that hiring an FCS coordinator to be a head coach is not the way to go. As someone else said the budget limits the depth of an FCS staff as opposed to FBS which pays coordinators well and prepares them to be head coaches.  Make a change after the year but no need to go after Breiner on a personal level. 

Another interesting point... Battering Ram notes that the players pushed for AB, yet there's a few posters on this board - most notably HK and Fred - that AB has lost the players and they don't want to play for him anymore. I personally find it hard to believe that the players have abandoned ship, but I can't be sure. It would be nice if someone with any credibility could shed some light on the situation.

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« Reply #342 on: October 16, 2017, 09:49:14 am »

Agreed. All that Breiner did was accept a promotion. DW,Hill, Pecora, Grasso acted as first class jerks so the vitriol aimed at them had justification. Not here. Just a young guy who took a promotion.

I disagree as to the pressure on the hire. I know Roach pretty well and he has the onions to stand up to such pressure. Especially when you factor in that you were hiring the youngest coach int he country at the time, it would have given anyone reason to pause and investigate further.  Roach stood up to the big donors that were in Pecora's back pocket and he fired him.  He should have handled this. He has 40 years of experience and he has a contract into retirement. He should have known better and not hired him. And never, ever, ever let the players dictate a hire, that is sports 101.

Roach owns this hire.
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« Reply #343 on: October 16, 2017, 09:49:57 am »

Lesson to be learned is that hiring an FCS coordinator to be a head coach is not the way to go.
not necessarily.  Dave Clawson did not have HC experience.  

I think the lesson that needs to be learned is for the Gridiron Club to show some restraint in the matter.  They do great work but they have not helped in these searches.  If they can limit their input then I think the players' pressure becomes less of an influence.
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« Reply #344 on: October 16, 2017, 09:50:12 am »

We are talking football here 07....stop acting like Jonathan Martin from the Dolphins.  Anyone voting against AB on the Hot Seat is part of the problem.

no-one here is part of the problem because no-one here has anything to do with the hiring or firing of our football coach.

You're mentality of "IM RIGHT BECAUSE IM LOUD AND YOU NEED TO DO WHAT I SAY" is the same type of mentality that possibly got AB hired ("HIRE MY ASSISTANT HES GREAT DO IT NOW").

We need less of that and more rational and reasoned decision making.
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« Reply #345 on: October 16, 2017, 09:51:38 am »

Again, in my view the Mid America Conference is where we should be looking for a coordinator who wants to be a head coach.  Lot of up and coming talent there and the money would work here.
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« Reply #346 on: October 16, 2017, 09:53:12 am »

not necessarily.  Dave Clawson did not have HC experience.  

I think the lesson that needs to be learned is for the Gridiron Club to show some restraint in the matter.  They do great work but they have not helped in these searches.  If they can limit their input then I think the players' pressure becomes less of an influence.

Roach owns this hire. The man has 40 years of experience and IVY and PL pedigree. He should have known better than to hire a 31 y.o coach at Fordham.  Influence, yes, they certainly have influence, but Roach makes the decision and he blew this one big time.  He fired Pecora in the face of very big donors objection.  He did it by the book. He has a contract to take him to retirement. He owns this. Anyone who knows Fordham, knows that Fordham is definitely a place with unique challenges and definitely not the place to take a huge gamble on hiring the youngest coach in the country.
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« Reply #347 on: October 16, 2017, 09:57:59 am »

Roach owns this hire. The man has 40 years of experience and IVY and PL pedigree. He should have known better than to hire a 31 y.o coach at Fordham.  Influence, yes, they certainly have influence, but Roach makes the decision and he blew this one big time.  He fired Pecora in the face of very big donors objection.  He did it by the book. He has a contract to take him to retirement. He owns this.
the donor base was split re: Pecora.  Yes, some big donors wanted to keep TP.  Others wanted him out.  Different circumstances than with the AB hire.  IMO, the Gridiron Club holds a lot more away over the football program than the Rebounders Club and hoops donors do over the basketball program.
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« Reply #348 on: October 16, 2017, 10:00:03 am »

Not doubting you but in the end, there were so many better options. At a minimum, tag Breiner as interim then argue your case and do a thorough vetting. There was no down side to doing that.
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« Reply #349 on: October 16, 2017, 10:15:53 am »

...Make a change after the year but no need to go after Breiner on a personal level. 
+1
The personal criticism of AB has been over the top.  Criticize his strategies, recruitment or other aspects of his football credentials, not him personally.
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« Reply #350 on: October 16, 2017, 10:53:56 am »

Heat just went up a notch.   Holy Cross let Tom Gilmore go after the Yale game.  Mid season canning for a guy who has been there 14 years.  Mediocre records for the most part but a PL title in 09. 
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« Reply #351 on: October 16, 2017, 10:55:32 am »

not necessarily.  Dave Clawson did not have HC experience.  

I think the lesson that needs to be learned is for the Gridiron Club to show some restraint in the matter.  They do great work but they have not helped in these searches.  If they can limit their input then I think the players' pressure becomes less of an influence.

You're barking up the wrong tree.  The GC had limited influence on this. This was JM going to high up in the administration..
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« Reply #352 on: October 16, 2017, 11:02:07 am »

the donor base was split re: Pecora.  Yes, some big donors wanted to keep TP.  Others wanted him out.  Different circumstances than with the AB hire.  IMO, the Gridiron Club holds a lot more away over the football program than the Rebounders Club and hoops donors do over the basketball program.

Exactly who are the " big donors".  I look in the annual report. I'm not seeing much at the $100k level.  Donors should have zero influence in these matters. They don't have enough skin in the game to have a say.  There have been a handful of people over the years who stepped up with checks over the years.  As far as I know they've been classy supporters who haven't interfered. 
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« Reply #353 on: October 16, 2017, 11:28:38 am »

what percent chance do you think a HC change is made after the season?    when this poll 1st came out ,  I voted for wait till after season and then consider how it played out..   I thought we would string together some W's and make a run in the PL.   Clearly that's not the case and were headed for a ~ 2-9 season.    Fordham usually doesn't make quick decisive coaching decisions.    but I'm moving over to the camp a change is necessary.   is it a 90% chance AB gets let go ..  or you guys think its more 50/50 range?       
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« Reply #354 on: October 16, 2017, 11:38:48 am »

what percent chance do you think a HC change is made after the season?    when this poll 1st came out ,  I voted for wait till after season and then consider how it played out..   I thought we would string together some W's and make a run in the PL.   Clearly that's not the case and were headed for a ~ 2-9 season.    Fordham usually doesn't make quick decisive coaching decisions.    but I'm moving over to the camp a change is necessary.   is it a 90% chance AB gets let go ..  or you guys think its more 50/50 range?       
Strictly a feeling but I suggest closer to the 90 percentile than the 50.  Who would have thought Holy Cross would fire the coach mid-season, assuming the dismissal was for poor performance.
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« Reply #355 on: October 16, 2017, 12:35:39 pm »

Strictly a feeling but I suggest closer to the 90 percentile than the 50.  Who would have thought Holy Cross would fire the coach mid-season, assuming the dismissal was for poor performance.

I think it depends on what happens in the next 4 games. If (here's hoping) it gets turned around, then I think there's a good chance AB could stay on. If it goes the way it's been going and the team is non competitive . . . well football coaches get fired for those kinds of results . . . even at schools where football isn't life and death.
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« Reply #356 on: October 16, 2017, 05:14:02 pm »

what percent chance do you think a HC change is made after the season?    when this poll 1st came out ,  I voted for wait till after season and then consider how it played out..   I thought we would string together some W's and make a run in the PL.   Clearly that's not the case and were headed for a ~ 2-9 season.    Fordham usually doesn't make quick decisive coaching decisions.    but I'm moving over to the camp a change is necessary.   is it a 90% chance AB gets let go ..  or you guys think its more 50/50 range?       

The team has taken a real nosedive, both offensively and defensively and you can throw in special teams.  I really can't see the administration not letting Breiner go after the season ends, unless the team wins 4 out of the next 4 ending at 5 and 6 and then they might keep him.   But I, for one, really doubt this team under Breiner is capable of winning out.

Who could we possibly replace him with now?  Another coordinator on the staff.  God forbid!  We could not secure a reputable guy to come in now on such short notice and succeed.  It's better to start drawing up the list of candidates now, get a consulting search firm like we did with Neubauer, and act as soon as the season is over.

Too bad.  I was really looking forward to this season in August.  Undecided
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« Reply #357 on: October 16, 2017, 08:17:09 pm »

Responding to the quote about all the players “wanting” AB as coach is not true.  Another post today discussed the clash with HC Breiner and one of his better defensive players. In addition, there is a lot of conflict between the players on the Offense and the Defense that needs to be addressed and handled by strong leadership. The sidelines during the Lafayette and Colgate games highlighted some of the current tension with the team.
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« Reply #358 on: October 16, 2017, 09:18:25 pm »

Responding to the quote about all the players “wanting” AB as coach is not true.  Another post today discussed the clash with HC Breiner and one of his better defensive players. In addition, there is a lot of conflict between the players on the Offense and the Defense that needs to be addressed and handled by strong leadership. The sidelines during the Lafayette and Colgate games highlighted some of the current tension with the team.

+1
I’m not going to explain my credibility, but at the time of AB’s hiring there was a significant number of players that were pretty unhappy about the decision.  So, he didn’t have the entire room from the start.
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« Reply #359 on: October 17, 2017, 06:18:30 am »

http://utrockets.com/coaches.aspx?rc=318&path=football


« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 06:49:24 am by 85 » Report Spam   Logged

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