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The real person on hot seat should be the AD


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Question: Should Dave Roach be fired over the football hire?
Yes - 8 (21.1%)
No - 14 (36.8%)
Maybe - 7 (18.4%)
No-outside forces were responsible for this hire - 9 (23.7%)
Total Voters: 38

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Author Topic: The real person on hot seat should be the AD  (Read 855 times)
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« on: October 01, 2017, 08:21:32 am »

In my view, a 31 y/o guy with a light resume' is always going to accept a promotion. Not his fault. The real issue is we thought, at least I did , that the Frank mentality was behind us.

Lazy, uninspired hire with no work effort, zero rationale, a guy who had zero leverage to make us flip a quick switch. The decision was made to place the youngest head coach in all of D1 football at Fordham.  Does Fordham finally get tough and fire an AD over such a bad decision?

Was this really Dave Roach or was it the Gridiron folks who made this hire? That to me is the key issue.
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 08:59:28 am »

This looked like a purely financial decision, and Moorhead's recommendation gave the clown car administration cover.
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 09:04:03 am »

That doesnt fly. Roach had the onions to fire Pecora ovder some loud objection form a couple of big donors. He hired a top notch consulting firm and got us a good coach for basketball. Why roll over on this one?

My sense is that this was the Gridiron folks who pushed this hire through, but I could be wrong. Either way, we have gone from a top 25 team, with significant holdover talent, to a laughingstock, non-competitive team, in a very short period of time.  The AD needs to be held accountable here.

Its very odd for anyone at the D1 level to hire a 31 y.o as head coach. With our issues that are well documented, it makes zero sense whatsoever for Fordham to do this with apparently no due diligence or process whatsoever. That is simply inexcusable and should cost the AD his job.
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 09:11:13 am »

This hire made sense on paper.  You had our best coach ever recommending him and it kept continuity to keep things moving.  It may back fire but there were valid reasons to hire him.
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 09:12:40 am »

This hire was approved all the way up the line. JM made the recommendation and Roach carried the ball from there.  There were a couple of things in play and money was on top of the list.  That is a fact.
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2017, 09:16:15 am »

This hire made sense on paper.  You had our best coach ever recommending him and it kept continuity to keep things moving.  It may back fire but there were valid reasons to hire him.

The hire made no sense on paper.  Whenever Fordham has hired without a search we get bit in the ass.  Any professional administrator looking at his resume is going to need to be convinced to make this hire. Or he has to be told, "just do it". 
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2017, 09:17:41 am »

This hire made sense on paper.  You had our best coach ever recommending him and it kept continuity to keep things moving.  It may back fire but there were valid reasons to hire him.

Disagree there Rich. It's Fordham.. We all know the issues. You dont hire the youngest coach in the country to be the coach here. Its a unique job with unique challenges. Due diligence is crucial at Fordham. Breiner didnt have any leverage. You could have hit him with an interim tag and done a search. This appears to have been a knee jerk.

You must learn from past mistakes. Sadly, they never do. Unfortunately, this thing is not just backfiring, its exploding.
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 09:24:45 am »

The hire made no sense on paper.  Whenever Fordham has hired without a search we get bit in the ass.  Any professional administrator looking at his resume is going to need to be convinced to make this hire. Or he has to be told, "just do it". 

When your legendary coach says this guy can do the job it makes sense.  Moorhead was this genius coach and he said he could do the job.  So you have the opportunity to stay inhouse and keep the train rolling with Moorhead's recommendation.   Makes perfect sense.

Roach fired Pecora and took a lot of heat for it.  I think this season is making people judge the hire now looking back.  At the time it was a risk but worth taking and there were solid reasons for it.
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 09:29:31 am »

You still need to do your job as AD. Ok Joe, we will make him the interim but then complete a proper due diligence. Who knows what red flags may have popped up. You can't just hand over the job to the youngest head coach in college football ........no matter who is recommending him.........
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 09:31:46 am »

Was chase a factor in this?   At the time he was talking about transferring.
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 09:34:02 am »

When your legendary coach says this guy can do the job it makes sense.  Moorhead was this genius coach and he said he could do the job.  So you have the opportunity to stay inhouse and keep the train rolling with Moorhead's recommendation.   Makes perfect sense.

How do you know that Coach Joe overwhelmingly approved AB?  What if Roach and Jeff Jerry Jones Gray with his Tom Cruise sunglasses on said to Coach Joe.....

"Hey Joe, we have decided to go a bit in a "different direction", but yet the same direction and we think that we can sell this to the Rambacker, et al Rose Colored Glasses Brigade.  We have decided to cut the coaching budget and head coach salary in half from where you were and hire AB.  Can he do the job?"  

Coach Joe's response......

"No, we need and experienced coach and coaching staff and we actually need to raise the coaching salary budget from where I was in order to take the next step.  That is my recommendation."  


Jeff Jerry Jones Gray responds......"that ain't happening, the head coaches salary is going to be $300k plus incentive, who do you recommend?"

Coach Joe....."Hire the kid"
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 09:39:20 am »

No one here said it happened that way.  Everything I've read is that Moorhead wanted him to get the job. If it happened the way you said minus the poor attempts at humor (good effort poor execution) then this is a different conversation.  Specifically what did they want to spend and was it appropriate for our level of football? 
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 09:41:38 am »

I pulled up the thread at the time. Some revisionist history from the poster here. He didnt post this back then.

What's clear from that thread is nobody seemed to think Breiner was even a candidate, let alone would get the job.
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 09:55:52 am »

When your legendary coach says this guy can do the job it makes sense.  Moorhead was this genius coach and he said he could do the job.  So you have the opportunity to stay inhouse and keep the train rolling with Moorhead's recommendation.   Makes perfect sense.

Roach fired Pecora and took a lot of heat for it.  I think this season is making people judge the hire now looking back.  At the time it was a risk but worth taking and there were solid reasons for it.

When your legendary coach at the time says the guy can do the job, you thank him for his input and you take it under advisement.  Then you do a search and he can be a top candidate.  You do this because you don't want history to repeat itself with the Foley and Pecora hires, both in recent memory.  Staying in-house is great, if you have a lights out successor.  AB was not that.

Roach didn't take heat for unloading Pecora from anyone who matters. No million dollar donors pulled back their pledges.  The only damage that was done was Fordham was left holding the bag on whatever the payout was.

I don't know anyone with any understanding on how this should work thought this hire was a great idea. 
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 09:58:58 am »

It was a head scratcher. Look at the thread from the time. TD17 nailed it with his post.
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2017, 10:06:03 am »

When your legendary coach at the time says the guy can do the job, you thank him for his input and you take it under advisement.  Then you do a search and he can be a top candidate.  You do this because you don't want history to repeat itself with the Foley and Pecora hires, both in recent memory.  Staying in-house is great, if you have a lights out successor.  AB was not that.

Roach didn't take heat for unloading Pecora from anyone who matters. No million dollar donors pulled back their pledges.  The only damage that was done was Fordham was left holding the bag on whatever the payout was.

I don't know anyone with any understanding on how this should work thought this hire was a great idea. 

He took a lot of heat from big donors firing Pecora.  That is a fact.

I have an understanding we had a great run and the architect of that run who everyone canonized said Breiner could keep it going.  As an administrator you have an opportunity to keep continuity and yes save some money.  This FCS PL football not FBS.
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 10:13:35 am »

He took a lot of heat from big donors firing Pecora.  That is a fact.

I have an understanding we had a great run and the architect of that run who everyone canonized said Breiner could keep it going.  As an administrator you have an opportunity to keep continuity and yes save some money.  This FCS PL football not FBS.

The fact that we have gotten paid peanuts from all of these FBS schools and gotten zero to show for it (Yes, we beat Temple and a terrible West Point team) just shows how much over our ski's this program really is.  West Point and Navy got paid huge paychecks this year to step up and play the Big boys and they did not embarrass themselves like we did. 

Enough with trying to be "big time" and lets move forward and focus on the Patriot League and put Columbia, Elizabeth State City College University back on the schedule.

Good thing Columbia wasn't on the schedule this year because they would beat us.
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 10:20:38 am »

He took a lot of heat from big donors firing Pecora.  That is a fact.

I have an understanding we had a great run and the architect of that run who everyone canonized said Breiner could keep it going.  As an administrator you have an opportunity to keep continuity and yes save some money.  This FCS PL football not FBS.

Ya, I saw all those names come off the endowed scholarships they set up.  Set the university back decades...

You always do your due diligence unless you're lazy or the decision was made for you.  The head football coach at Fordham is running a $6 million+ operation.  That is a great deal of money.  It's just irresponsible not to do a search, even if the legendary coach suggests a successor,  with that much money on the line.
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2017, 10:28:39 am »

Does anyone think a young, unproven HC would have difficulty attracting top notch assistants?
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2017, 10:37:21 am »

Ace, why do we even have a bulletin board if you keep locking everything?
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2017, 10:46:18 am »

Does anyone think a young, unproven HC would have difficulty attracting top notch assistants?

I think this is an important point.  Football more than any other sport is one where staffing is paramount.

On reflection, I think this was mostly about trying to save money and to avoid the inevitable facilities question (prospective coaching candidate: "show me the football offices . . ."). My speculation is that the approach taken (no search) wasn't from Roach but came from Gray.

Well, anyway, now we're stuck.  The program's momentum has been reversed, the greatest player in modern Fordham history is graduating, the league is down, the facilities are still an issue. Any search will probably not be turning up stellar experienced FCS candidates. Good grief, we've already seen the calls to "hire the coach from St. (fill in your favorite martyr) in Jersey."

It was nice while it lasted . . .
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2017, 11:06:41 am »

  Any search will probably not be turning up stellar experienced FCS candidates.
 

Come on now with that. We will have top candidates lined up around the block. Its a head coaching job that pays very good money at a very good school. Our former coaches going back nearly  20 years have all landed at 1A schools in some capacity. Its a great stepping stone. Every time we lose in anything, this silly argument is raised, its been dis-proven over and over again. This was a one-off,  hair brained decision that should cost the AD his job. Fire AB, national search, you get a real good coach. Absolutely.
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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2017, 11:36:14 am »

Jeff Jerry Jones Gray responds......"that ain't happening, the head coaches salary is going to be $300k plus incentive, who do you recommend?"

Coach Joe....."Hire the kidĒ

Per Fordhamís last 990, AB didnít crack the highest paid employee list that starts around $175k.
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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2017, 11:36:32 am »

The poll question in this thread should not even be asked. One hire that does not appear to be working out and the AD should be fired?

On a different note, plenty of open threads Ram-Spouse. Stop whining.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2017, 11:36:44 am »

Roach didn't take heat for unloading Pecora from anyone who matters.
This statement is absolutely false.
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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2017, 11:37:21 am »

The poll question in this thread should not even be asked. One hire that does not appear to be working out and the AD should be fired?
And this statement is absolutely correct.
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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2017, 11:48:30 am »

Per Fordhamís last 990, AB didnít crack the highest paid employee list that starts around $175k.

If this quote is accurate and I have no reason to question if it is true.......People who keep laughing at me for bringing up the New Jersey Parochial Coach, Greg Toal better start preparing for the inevitable.....bad football for the foreseeable future, unless you go after a proven winner, even if it is at the High School level.  We actually would get beaten by the top tier high school programs this year.  (I know, bash me for this, I know that would never happen, just making a point.)
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2017, 11:49:05 am »

The poll question in this thread should not even be asked. One hire that does not appear to be working out and the AD should be fired?

On a different note, plenty of open threads Ram-Spouse. Stop whining.

Yes the question is important to be asked. Dave Roach decided that of all places, Fordham, was the place to hire the youngest coach in the country, with zero due diligence or search process. This is a monumental dereliction of duty as an AD. Millions of dollars thrown down the drain because the AD didnt do his job. This will hit the nadir in a few weeks

You want to censor the questions now?   
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« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2017, 11:54:43 am »

Yes the question is important to be asked. Dave Roach decided that of all places, Forhdam, was the place to hire the youngest coach in the country, with zero due diligence or search process. This is a monumental dereliction of duty as an AD. Millions of dollars thrown down the drain because the AD didnt do his job. This will hit the nadir in a few weeks.

I disagree. I do not think this a reason to fire the guy who you yourself have said has done a wonderful job overall.

Millions of dollars down the drain? How so? Win or lose the money is being spent and not being recouped in FCS football.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
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« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2017, 11:58:03 am »

And one bad decision can cost the AD or anyone else his/her job.   

Of course the money is down the drain. its a quid pro quo, you spend all that money to have success. You dont spend all that money and then just ignore due diligence and hire a green kid with little experience to take over a top 25 program. That's enough to get you fired. One really colossally bad decision is enough. My issue is that he should be fired for not doing his job. If he did a search and he made AB a candidate and decided after the search that he was the best guy, then it's a little different.  Breiner had zero leverage, none.  We finally had ourselves positioned where we needed to be. A terrific stepping stone HC job to constantly attract great candidates, let the move up, then rinse repeat. We blew it and are now set back.

Of all places in sports, you think Fordham, with all of the drawbacks and problems that are harped upon ad nauseum here, is the place to take this gigantic gamble to hire a kid with no experience, the youngest in the country? At Fordham of all places?
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