fordhamfans.com
November 25, 2017, 02:44:32 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Gallery Login Register  

Why I no Longer Donate $$ (example 2,465).


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why I no Longer Donate $$ (example 2,465).  (Read 534 times)
85
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12341


View Profile
« on: October 09, 2017, 09:27:07 am »

I stopped a long time ago. Because I don't trust the people in charge to do the right thing with the money.

Executing no process or coaching search whatsoever. Simply handing the keys to a top 25 program to a 31 y/.o glorified position coach from Lock Haven, to take over the highest budgeted program in the department.

Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water, the old Frank-era Fordham re-emerges.
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 09:33:46 am »

I heard the army bus disaster was the last straw for Frank.  Maybe the football debacle ends Gray being involved in athletics.  If Roach got passed over for this hire then it is on Gray. 
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
85
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12341


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 09:35:55 am »

I hope so. It seems completely illogical that a guy with Dave Roach's pedigree would mail it in and just give the job to an unproven, unqualified kid like Breiner.  However, given his contractual status, Roach should have made more noise if this is how the hire went down.

Go back and look at the posts from this time last year. Some of the more prolific football posters and purported donors have simply dropped off the face of the earth.  Did their computers break?
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2017, 09:39:56 am »

I hope so. It seems completely illogical that a guy with Dave Roach's pedigree would mail it in and just give the job to an unproven, unqualified kid like Breiner.  However, given his contractual status, Roach should have made more noise if this is how the hire went down.

Go back and look at the posts from this time last year. Some of the more prolific football posters and purported donors have simply dropped off the face of the earth.  Did their computers break?

Tough call.  If the hire was done you do not want to undermine him before he starts.
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
85
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12341


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2017, 09:52:47 am »

True but subtle ways to do it.  My intuition tells me he this was the handiwork of the Gridiron Club. But I could be wrong.

But to the salient point. They no longer get my money because of situations like this. Influenced by a few folks to completely abandon the sound management principles that have turned around the entire department. 
Report Spam   Logged
PA Ram
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2190



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 10:23:17 am »

I've posted this a few times but you keep coming back to the GC.  Some schools have GC or alums on hiring committees but that's never been done at Fordham.  The decision rests solely with the administration.  I think the simplest explanation is the right one in that he received a strong recommendation from his legendary predecessor who left the cupboard very full in terms of returning starters, thus making it seem like he was not only in position to succeed but also that getting a new staff could bring turmoil.  Maybe some kids will transfer, maybe the new systems don't fit this great group of returning players, etc.  All stuff that seems ridiculous in retrospect given how it's played out but may have been compelling at the time.  I'm sure the idea is that we'd be kicking ourselves for not err'ing for continuity if/when you see AB continue to ascend elsewhere. Throw in a nice budget savings from the reduced salary and it was an easy choice.  Some of that is guesswork but my biggest point is that I haven't seen or heard of any GC involvement in this.  That said, not sure if it was thrust upon Roach or if it was his choice.  I assume it was his decision.  Anything else is conjecture that's mostly rooted in disdain for JG imo.
Report Spam   Logged
85
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12341


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 10:31:02 am »

I was and am a huge Moorhead fan but I heard that he was very much at odds with Roach and the admin. when he left. That makes your scenario less probable.

I just can't fathom how a seasoned AD, who appears to understand the unique challenges at Fordham, and who has had such great success here, would be ok to ignoring the very management principles that got us here.  There was no harm in tagging him interim and doing an abbreviated search. Where exactly was Briener going to go and what leverage did he have?  I don't see any.
Report Spam   Logged
ace93
Arbitrary and Capricious Administrator
Raging Lunatic
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20899



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 10:39:41 am »

I heard Moorhead was at odds with Roach and got along wonderfully with others in the admin.
Report Spam   Logged

Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State
PA Ram
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2190



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 10:40:09 am »

I was and am a huge Moorhead fan but I heard that he was very much at odds with Roach and the admin. when he left. That makes your scenario less probably.
He was (and is, I assume) revered by Fr. McShane and has a huge amount of respect from what I've seen from everyone in admin.  Every coach, particularly wildly successful ones, butt their heads up against their higher ups at some point.  There's just simply not enough support to keep a true stud coach around who sees worse performing programs with better facilities and support, etc. despite the great budget.  That's why imo it's critical that our hires be guys who want to accept the plusses and minuses (and there are huge plusses imo), make a big impact and move on up and out.  Rinse, repeat.  A lifer is the last thing this program needs.  

Back to JM, I just think whatever friction was there at the end was a sign that it was time for him to go and, most important, would not make them tune him out when he's giving his recommendation for AB as he's leaving.  He was still respected a ton as he left for PSU.
Report Spam   Logged
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 10:47:42 am »

I was and am a huge Moorhead fan but I heard that he was very much at odds with Roach and the admin. when he left. That makes your scenario less probable.

I just can't fathom how a seasoned AD, who appears to understand the unique challenges at Fordham, and who has had such great success here, would be ok to ignoring the very management principles that got us here.  There was no harm in tagging him interim and doing an abbreviated search. Where exactly was Briener going to go and what leverage did he have?  I don't see any.

I believe Roach wanted a search.  I know a couple prominent Gridiron Club members were not thrilled.   I don't know exactly what the process was but it came from above Roach. I was told this at the time and I still believe it.
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 10:51:23 am »

Hopefully the GIC guys use this to oust gray from athletics.  Let Roach handle it. 
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 10:59:13 am »

Hopefully the GIC guys use this to oust gray from athletics.  Let Roach handle it. 

Gridiron Club will hopefully stick to supporting the program.  Don't get involved in the political stuff.  Nothing good comes from it.  Last I heard the office project is not doing great.   Kind of tough to have muscle with something like that floundering.
Report Spam   Logged
85
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12341


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 10:59:59 am »

It doesnt matter how revered a coach may be. An outgoing coach never should able to trump the athletic director. Period. Basic management 101.
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 11:01:42 am »

Gridiron Club will hopefully stick to supporting the program.  Don't get involved in the political stuff.  Nothing good comes from it.  Last I heard the office project is not doing great.   Kind of tough to have muscle with something like that floundering.

Fair point. I donít understand why that project is not funded.  We were told for years how they raise a ton of money. It is odd seems there has to be a reason.
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
toby
Freshman
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 106


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 11:02:20 am »

Gosh, it would be an early Christmas present if Jeff Gray were finally sent out to the pasture.  You think McLaughlin had it good, have we ever looked into the Country Club Memberships and Home Loans we have given Gray??  If we compounded the money that the university had invested in their country clubs, homes and tuition, those Football Offices would have been completed by 2007.

DIII has called and they want Jeff Gray back at SUNY Oneonta or wherever he attended undergrad.  

I hear Edwards Parade will be renamed Gray's Parade by 2020.
Report Spam   Logged
Ram-Spouse
Junior
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1441


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2017, 11:43:31 am »

Gosh, it would be an early Christmas present if Jeff Gray were finally sent out to the pasture.  You think McLaughlin had it good, have we ever looked into the Country Club Memberships and Home Loans we have given Gray??  If we compounded the money that the university had invested in their country clubs, homes and tuition, those Football Offices would have been completed by 2007.

DIII has called and they want Jeff Gray back at SUNY Oneonta or wherever he attended undergrad.  

I hear Edwards Parade will be renamed Gray's Parade by 2020.

Gray Family Parade.....to keep uniformity with the McLaughlin Family basketball floor.
Report Spam   Logged
Ram-Spouse
Junior
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1441


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2017, 11:44:49 am »

Fair point. I donít understand why that project is not funded.  We were told for years how they raise a ton of money. It is odd seems there has to be a reason.

The office funding is a huge Head scratcher.....I can see when they threw in the towel for the JCF Renovation, but the offices should be a no-brainer.
Report Spam   Logged
xtey92a
Hall of Famer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8266



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2017, 07:44:04 pm »

I'm fairly certain McShane wants nothing to do with Athletics, hence the AD reporting to Grey.

Report Spam   Logged

#GoRamsGo!
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 07:23:23 am »

The office funding is a huge Head scratcher.....I can see when they threw in the towel for the JCF Renovation, but the offices should be a no-brainer.

It's not a priority.  No head scratching needed.
Report Spam   Logged
DamnRam
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4340


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2017, 11:08:06 am »

It's not a priority.  No head scratching needed.

Just to state the obvious, "not a priority" does not mean "don't understand how it would benefit Fordham" or "they just don't want it".  It does mean Fordham has a lot of demands on limited resources and so they have to focus on a few most important things.
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2017, 11:12:43 am »

It's not a priority.  No head scratching needed.

The offices are a priority for Fordham fundraising as they are begging for money to get it done.  It is not a priority for the football donors which is a head scratcher for me. 
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
Ram-Spouse
Junior
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1441


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2017, 11:15:06 am »

It does mean Fordham has a lot of demands on limited resources and so they have to focus on a few most important things.

"demands" and "limited resources"......and what to focus on....LOL, now that is funny.

Report Spam   Logged
Ram-Spouse
Junior
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1441


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2017, 11:17:45 am »

I'm fairly certain McShane wants nothing to do with Athletics, hence the AD reporting to Grey.



You mean Jeff, Jerry Jones, Grey....
Report Spam   Logged
DamnRam
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4340


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2017, 12:14:29 pm »

"demands" and "limited resources"......and what to focus on....LOL, now that is funny.

Then you are easily amused, confused, and clearly not in any sort of position of responsibility which comes with a budget.
Report Spam   Logged
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2017, 12:32:37 pm »

The offices are a priority for Fordham fundraising as they are begging for money to get it done.  It is not a priority for the football donors which is a head scratcher for me. 

The offices, an essential part of doing business, are not a priority for the University.  They passed this off to the donors for a reason, I believe, to see if they were up to the challenge. A year in, it doesn't seem that the support is there. Not a good sign for the future IMO.
Report Spam   Logged
toby
Freshman
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 106


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2017, 01:01:37 pm »

Are there any forthcoming physical plant upgrades that are a priority for the University?  What did the race to 2016 Campaign return?  Any odds when the University eventually places the sign, "Gone Fishing" on the entrances to RHG and JCF?

Has the administration ever-done an "earned media" analysis when our athletic programs are successful (basketball + football) and the increase in donations, applications etc...It is mind boggling how this university still lives in 1986 across all departments...Marketing, Fundraising, Operationally.
Report Spam   Logged
71
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4575



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2017, 01:21:28 pm »

Are there any forthcoming physical plant upgrades that are a priority for the University?  What did the race to 2016 Campaign return?  Any odds when the University eventually places the sign, "Gone Fishing" on the entrances to RHG and JCF?

Has the administration ever-done an "earned media" analysis when our athletic programs are successful (basketball + football) and the increase in donations, applications etc...It is mind boggling how this university still lives in 1986 across all departments...Marketing, Fundraising, Operationally.

Giving them a lot of credit here . . .   Wink
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2017, 01:41:05 pm »

The offices, an essential part of doing business, are not a priority for the University.  They passed this off to the donors for a reason, I believe, to see if they were up to the challenge. A year in, it doesn't seem that the support is there. Not a good sign for the future IMO.

Up to the challenge for what next?   If they raised the money and met the challenge, what would that lead to other than new offices?   If the raise the money is JCF next? Under your explanation if they meet this challenge there is something next.  What is it?

For years the grid iron club raised a ton of money, or so we were told.  Now when new offices are needed they are no where to be found.  Why is that? 
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2017, 01:48:23 pm »

Up to the challenge for what next?   If they raised the money and met the challenge, what would that lead to other than new offices?   If the raise the money is JCF next? Under your explanation if they meet this challenge there is something next.  What is it?

For years the grid iron club raised a ton of money, or so we were told.  Now when new offices are needed they are no where to be found.  Why is that? 

Define "a ton of money".   

I think the challenge to raise the money for offices was put out there to see if there was tangible, major support for football and to see if a campaign for JCF was feasible.  While the Gridiron Club has certainly aided the program with its support, I question what the bottom line on a ton of money is. 
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2017, 02:04:09 pm »

Define "a ton of money".   

I think the challenge to raise the money for offices was put out there to see if there was tangible, major support for football and to see if a campaign for JCF was feasible.  While the Gridiron Club has certainly aided the program with its support, I question what the bottom line on a ton of money is. 

I disagree.  They are not redoing any of these facilities while there is no science center or student center.  Every statement by the administration has made this clear, they are not building new athletic facilities.  They would rightfully be crucified if they replaced JCF and they know it.  The offices are not a challenge, they are offices. Maybe the GC is pissed they have to pay for them instead of the university.

As for a ton I was told they raised a million one year.  Pretty good if true if not then the donors support football narrative is garbage.  Weíve been told for years big donors support football where is the money?   Remeber there was the weight training facility what happened to that?   Did football boosters pull their money because it was for all athletes not just football?   There is a back story here.  I am sure of it. Maybe they had grand designs for a complete redo of the facilities and it got shut down so they wonít donate to this project. 
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
jimbo65
Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2595


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2017, 02:04:47 pm »

Not that many years ago, a wealthy Alum, possibly Mr. Walsh of our library fame , authorized a matching fund up to, I believe, $250,00.  He matched all contributions and $500,000 was raised for football. As I recall, he also gave a tidy sum for football when he donated to the library. Seems he played fball on our freshman team under Lombardi who took him aside at season end and told him John you are going to be a success but not in fball.
Report Spam   Logged
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2017, 02:20:52 pm »

I disagree.  They are not redoing any of these facilities while there is no science center or student center.  Every statement by the administration has made this clear, they are not building new athletic facilities.  They would rightfully be crucified if they replaced JCF and they know it.  The offices are not a challenge, they are offices. Maybe the GC is pissed they have to pay for them instead of the university.

As for a ton I was told they raised a million one year.  Pretty good if true if not then the donors support football narrative is garbage.  Weíve been told for years big donors support football where is the money?   Remeber there was the weight training facility what happened to that?   Did football boosters pull their money because it was for all athletes not just football?   There is a back story here.  I am sure of it. Maybe they had grand designs for a complete redo of the facilities and it got shut down so they wonít donate to this project. 

While it is very helpful and appreciated, I don't think $1 mil is a ton in this day and age and it certainly isn't enough to by much influence.  I believe I read Holy Cross is raising all the money privately for a new facility and had a lead gift of $25 mil.   In the fundraising world that is much closer to "a ton'. 

Failure to support the office campaign gives the University the ability to say, "there isn't enough support from alumni to justify more resources for football."  Which I think they like having in their back pocket.
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2017, 02:24:58 pm »

The University has publicly stated they arenít putting more money into athletic facilities. Not sure why they need anything more in their back pocket, they arenít doing it.  They arenít raising money to replace RHG or JCF. Everyone knows this because theyíve said it publicly numerous times.  Maybe that refusal is leading to the offices project not getting done. In the end I donít want to hear the big donors support football nonsense anymore.
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2017, 02:37:47 pm »

The University has publicly stated they arenít putting more money into athletic facilities. Not sure why they need anything more in their back pocket, they arenít doing it.  They arenít raising money to replace RHG or JCF. Everyone knows this because theyíve said it publicly numerous times.  Maybe that refusal is leading to the offices project not getting done. In the end I donít want to hear the big donors support football nonsense anymore.

They're trying to raise money for two projects and it's not going all that well although I hear the Fund for Frank is limping somewhat faster.  So, they are trying to raise some money...

Can't help you on the last point.  Don't listen. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 03:18:10 pm by An Old Coach » Report Spam   Logged
An Old Coach
Raging Lunatic
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 12844


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2017, 03:23:17 pm »

The University has publicly stated they arenít putting more money into athletic facilities. Not sure why they need anything more in their back pocket, they arenít doing it.  They arenít raising money to replace RHG or JCF. Everyone knows this because theyíve said it publicly numerous times.  Maybe that refusal is leading to the offices project not getting done. In the end I donít want to hear the big donors support football nonsense anymore.

I guess you're more of the high roller mailing lists than I am but I don't believe I've ever recieved any communication from Fordham saying that they aren't putting any more money into athletics.  I think it's pretty obvious but I don't recall the Board, the president or the AD coming out and saying that. 

It's good to have that in their back pocket because it's always better to blame someone else for failure then to look inward.  Human nature...
Report Spam   Logged
Rich93
Class of 93
Raging Lunatic
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12387


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2017, 03:23:58 pm »

They're trying to raise money for two projects and it's not going all that well although I hear the Fund for Frank is limping somewhat faster.  So, they are trying to raise some money...

Can't help you on the last point.  Don't listen. 

Thanks I sort of knew they are raising money for these two projects what they have made clear is they are not doing any heavy projects like RHG and JCF. They have publicly said this time and again so there is no need to say there is no support for it.  They told us it is not happening no matter what. Roach has said they are not redoing JCF. Gray came out and said no new arena.  They are not doing it period end of story. No need for the back pocket they are not doing it.  The university isnít paying for offices or a new floor, they donít want to put more money into athletics not sure what more you need  they arenít paying for this stuff. 

As for the last point that really was not to you as I donít recall you saying more of a general donít bring that garbage around anymore it has been debunked.  
Report Spam   Logged

WINNING MATTERS
toby
Freshman
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 106


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2017, 05:29:47 pm »

While it is very helpful and appreciated, I don't think $1 mil is a ton in this day and age and it certainly isn't enough to by much influence.  I believe I read Holy Cross is raising all the money privately for a new facility and had a lead gift of $25 mil.   In the fundraising world that is much closer to "a ton'. 

Failure to support the office campaign gives the University the ability to say, "there isn't enough support from alumni to justify more resources for football."  Which I think they like having in their back pocket.

My understanding from HC folks is the lead donor ($25M - $37M) awaited for the passing of Fr. Brooks (cannot recall if he was the impetus for their move to the PL and removal of scholarships at the Wooster Campus) since he/she was against dropping any coin until a commitment was made by the university to invest in their athletic program(s).

If these small projects are having a difficult time producing donors, could it be a silent protest from alums against the past/present and future path of the university?  Would be interesting to know how the general fund is doing YoY...I for one, would never donate for the Grank Campaign but do donate for football every year, although, I am sure the university would rather it move to the general fund or an academic department.
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Buy traffic for your forum/website
traffic-masters
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.203 seconds with 12 queries.