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HKRam
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« on: October 17, 2017, 10:47:03 pm »

As most of the PL coaches have been complaining about scheduling opponents, travel, budgets, and injuries, the PL is apparently thinking extending offers to several DIII programs to join the PL - preferably for ALL sported. Who, how or when is a mystery.

Sounds quite a lot different than the direction of Villanova, W&M, and Richmond.
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 06:05:15 am »

As most of the PL coaches have been complaining about scheduling opponents, travel, budgets, and injuries, the PL is apparently thinking extending offers to several DIII programs to join the PL - preferably for ALL sported. Who, how or when is a mystery.

Sounds quite a lot different than the direction of Villanova, W&M, and Richmond.

They would have to join D-I across their entire athletic departments.  I can't imagine that being a remote possibility.
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 06:57:05 am »

As most of the PL coaches have been complaining about scheduling opponents, travel, budgets, and injuries, the PL is apparently thinking extending offers to several DIII programs to join the PL - preferably for ALL sported. Who, how or when is a mystery.

Division I rules prohibit D-III schools from moving to D-I directly--they must apply for and serve a minimum number of years in Division II-- something that few (if any) schools want to do.

Next, there are no D-III schools interested in a 60 scholarship program to which the annual spend would dwarf its entire budget.

If the PL adds anyone in the next five years, it would be Monmouth.
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 07:13:15 am »

most coaches and and ADs complain about budgets especially for low revenue sports like I-AA football.  That's what they do.

The PL clearly needs another team simply to get an even number of teams that would ease scheduling and avoid the bye week that kills the end of the season for some schools. Such a school would preferably be in the PL's current footprint and since there are few schools in the NE that fit the PL's profile and play I-AA/FCS football.  That leads to the occasional speculation of a DIII school like Hopkins moving up but they neither have the resources nor the ability to do it.  Schools must play all sports at the same level, they would have to move all their sports up to DI.  Hopkins an exemption for lax but that's it and I doubt the NCAA is in the mood for broadening exemptions.

Good to find an 8th team.  A DIII school isn't the option.
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 07:44:26 am »

As most of the PL coaches have been complaining about scheduling opponents, travel, budgets, and injuries, the PL is apparently thinking extending offers to several DIII programs to join the PL - preferably for ALL sported. Who, how or when is a mystery.

Sounds quite a lot different than the direction of Villanova, W&M, and Richmond.

Exactly who gave you this information from the PL ?   Right now the PL is pretty solid across the board with the exception of football.  Ironic since it was started as a football first conference but basketball has picked up and they are are doing pretty well in the other sports.  This sounds like wild speculation ...... and there is a process, as posted above, that means it is not possible to just extend offers. ..... probably the one school that might make sense would be Johns Hopkins.....I could see that happening down the road.....
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 11:01:17 am »

Exactly who gave you this information from the PL ?   Right now the PL is pretty solid across the board with the exception of football.  Ironic since it was started as a football first conference but basketball has picked up and they are are doing pretty well in the other sports.  This sounds like wild speculation ...... and there is a process, as posted above, that means it is not possible to just extend offers. ..... probably the one school that might make sense would be Johns Hopkins.....I could see that happening down the road.....

The annual or semi-annual "which is the next school to join the PL" topic seems to have raised its head here first.  Acknowledging that there aren't any great or realistic candidates that also WANT to join the PL, this has been a topic that has gone down many rabbit holes. 

If we ignore the chorus for the usual suspects of Villanova, Richmond and W&M, Army would be a terrific candidate:  high academics, good standards, similar size, ideal location, etc.  Of course, they aren't dropping from FBS without Navy and Navy isn't dropping.  So there goes my #1 option.  If we suspended the reality of the NCAA requirements for DIII schools to move right to DI, Hopkins is a good start.  I'd also make the argument that RPI is as good or a better candidate.  Private, similar sized, good academics, top notch facilities and gives the northern end of schools (HC and Colgate specifically) an attractive close-in rival.  I don't know that they would move without their rival Union (114 gridiron meetings), so maybe that is a package deal. 
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 11:19:01 am »

The annual or semi-annual "which is the next school to join the PL" topic seems to have raised its head here first.  Acknowledging that there aren't any great or realistic candidates that also WANT to join the PL, this has been a topic that has gone down many rabbit holes. 

If we ignore the chorus for the usual suspects of Villanova, Richmond and W&M, Army would be a terrific candidate:  high academics, good standards, similar size, ideal location, etc.  Of course, they aren't dropping from FBS without Navy and Navy isn't dropping.  So there goes my #1 option.  If we suspended the reality of the NCAA requirements for DIII schools to move right to DI, Hopkins is a good start.  I'd also make the argument that RPI is as good or a better candidate.  Private, similar sized, good academics, top notch facilities and gives the northern end of schools (HC and Colgate specifically) an attractive close-in rival.  I don't know that they would move without their rival Union (114 gridiron meetings), so maybe that is a package deal. 

You understand that their athletic departments would have to become full fledged D-I members, right?  Do you really see that happening?
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 11:32:59 am »

You understand that their athletic departments would have to become full fledged D-I members, right?  Do you really see that happening?

Please re-read my post, but yes.
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 11:52:49 am »

Please re-read my post, but yes.

Any reason at all to believe this has been entertained?
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 11:56:20 am »

You understand that their athletic departments would have to become full fledged D-I members, right?  Do you really see that happening?

what did you not understand when he wrote this???

If we suspended the reality of the NCAA requirements for DIII schools to move right to DI,

 Huh?
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 12:10:34 pm »

what did you not understand when he wrote this???

 Huh?

I don't understand why he'd throw this crap against the wall.  Now we're suspending reality to post?
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 12:55:23 pm »

some ideas for 8th PL member..  

Monmouth - starting to dominate PL competition  but they cant be happy in Big South
URI  - tired of cellar dweller in CAA ..maybe in PL they are contender
Davidson  - good school would they re try the PL (80's ?)
Marist  -  Pioneer but maybe a fit in PL
Dayton - Ohio presence for PL
Duquense -
Bryant -  well they can compete with us already ;(
William and Mary - CAA better league but maybe ready for a move
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I think New Hampshire was interested a few years ago but didn't like no redshrt rule. Plus they put money into facilities recently so think that ship has sailed.
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 12:56:27 pm »

PL has very good lacrosse. Will the addition be a lax school?  URi doesnt fit the academic model, in my view.  Bryant would be a better fit there.
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 01:02:46 pm »

when evaluating possible candidates, I'm pretty sure that any invitation would be up the full-time members and not associate members like us.  I don't see many schools on people's lists that would either be interested in the PL or that would get the PL's attention even for associate membership.
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 01:39:56 pm »

when evaluating possible candidates, I'm pretty sure that any invitation would be up the full-time members and not associate members like us.  I don't see many schools on people's lists that would either be interested in the PL or that would get the PL's attention even for associate membership.

Actually< I think the PL would happily accept associate members for football if they could find them.  No school is leaving the CAA unless they are downgrading football.  I can't imagine any reason in the world why W&M would even have the conversation.

I agree some Pioneer League teams could match but do they want to add millions to their football budget to cover scholarships?  Not likely... Possibly one or teams from the NEC would consider an invite.  Do they match up, though?   How do they deal with the AI?

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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 01:44:11 pm »

I don't understand why he'd throw this crap against the wall.  Now we're suspending reality to post?

You suspend reality whenever you talk about us moving to another league. Whats the difference? Its an interesting discussion.
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 01:46:10 pm »

I don't understand why he'd throw this crap against the wall.  Now we're suspending reality to post?

My earlier "yes" response was to the question about whether I knew about the NCAA rule.  My response to your question about entertaining a change to rules is no.  Sorry if you thought this was crap.  This whole thread struck me as a big hypothetical anyway.   Wink
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 02:51:26 pm »

The PL discussions about adding one or two current D-III programs and upgrading to full D-I are occurring. There are apparently 2-4 which have been targeted. The issue is cost for D-III and the PL is contemplating a bit of an interim subsidy for a taker or two. This is all that I'm aware of for the moment.
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 03:55:30 pm »

The PL discussions about adding one or two current D-III programs and upgrading to full D-I are occurring. There are apparently 2-4 which have been targeted. The issue is cost for D-III and the PL is contemplating a bit of an interim subsidy for a taker or two. This is all that I'm aware of for the moment.

What do you mean by "upgrading to full D-I?"
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 04:12:53 pm »

One of the posters above mentioned if a Division III program moves one sport to DI, then they must move all sports. That is what was meant by full DI.
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 04:15:16 pm »

If I were a betting man and I'm not, to me the likes of Carnegie Mellon, Williams, Bowdoin or something like a Wittenberg is likely being considered.
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 04:16:48 pm »

One of the posters above mentioned if a Division III program moves one sport to DI, then they must move all sports. That is what was meant by full DI.

gotcha.  and you just answered my next question.
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 04:30:46 pm »

The PL discussions about adding one or two current D-III programs and upgrading to full D-I are occurring. There are apparently 2-4 which have been targeted. The issue is cost for D-III and the PL is contemplating a bit of an interim subsidy for a taker or two. This is all that I'm aware of for the moment.

I find this very very very hard to believe.  Anyone giving serious consideration to paying $1 for a DIII team to move up to the PL would/should be fired immediately.  Merely entertaining that idea is a fireable offense.  If they want to move up they need to fund their programs.  We canít rebuild offices so considering this would be insanity. 
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2017, 05:08:37 pm »

The PL discussions about adding one or two current D-III programs and upgrading to full D-I are occurring. There are apparently 2-4 which have been targeted. The issue is cost for D-III and the PL is contemplating a bit of an interim subsidy for a taker or two. This is all that I'm aware of for the moment.

This is pure b.s.   A great D-III program might be paying slightly over $1mil to find their program. They're going to pump an additional $5 mil into their program to play Bucknell and Georgetown.  And the PL would subsidize this? 

Where did you get this information?
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2017, 06:31:29 pm »

Conversation with my kid's coach at Carnegie Mellon. I don't know the other schools for sure. I certainly wouldn't have brought this up in conversation myself. Sounds like they are at least thinking about doing something.

Interim subsidies would amount to about $400,000 per school the way I understand it - not just the football school's  They'd allow them to add other  PL sports that they do not participate in over close to a decade. I thought it was interesting and creative which is why I passed it along.

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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2017, 06:38:37 pm »

Carnegie Mellon with the $1.7 BILLION endowment?

It's not raining.  They really were peeing on your leg.
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 07:16:59 pm »

If I were a betting man and I'm not, to me the likes of Carnegie Mellon, Williams, Bowdoin or something like a Wittenberg is likely being considered.

I don't see any of these schools moving up to D-1.  And if one (or more) did make the move and entered the Patriot League with a subsidy from the league schools, Fordham should find another league - NEC, CAA, whatever...
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 08:06:42 pm »

I think Fordham needs to win a few games in the PL before thinking about any changes of conference
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2017, 09:41:14 pm »

I think Fordham needs to win a few games in the PL before thinking about any changes of conference

I only said that they should leave the PL if the idiotic proposal supposedly floating around regarding D3 school(s) moving up to D1 and getting a PL subsidy sees the light of day - which I highly doubt it will.  No way in hell should Fordham or any other school be paying for that. 
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2017, 10:59:41 pm »

I only said that they should leave the PL if the idiotic proposal supposedly floating around regarding D3 school(s) moving up to D1 and getting a PL subsidy sees the light of day - which I highly doubt it will.  No way in hell should Fordham or any other school be paying for that. 

You are right, it is highly doubtful it would ever happen. In fact, I would go as far as saying that there is a 0% chance it happens. What would the PL have to gain? The only sport it would aid is football and these schools just do not care that much about football. Half of the schools had to be convinced to go ahead with scholarships. They don't want to spend anymore money for the sake of football.

I am cool with HKRam bringing it up, as he is only relaying something he heard, though I do think he was fed a bunch of bull. But even the person who told him could have been relaying what he was told and so on. Probably like a game of telephone, it probably started with a PL school wanting to run some summer camps with some nearby DIII school.   Wink
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2017, 11:47:41 pm »

Ace, You could be right that the coach was pulling my leg. My daughter is looking to transfer to a D-I program and its possible he was tossing BS at me tontry and convince her to stay. My daughter didn't care - she just wants out.

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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2017, 12:13:44 am »

Ace, You could be right that the coach was pulling my leg. My daughter is looking to transfer to a D-I program and its possible he was tossing BS at me tontry and convince her to stay. My daughter didn't care - she just wants out.

Do note that I also said that the coach might just be relaying what he heard also.
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 11:16:32 pm »

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« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2017, 12:45:56 am »

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« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2017, 01:25:14 am »

pjd - This thread is about DIII schools possibly joining the Patriot League. If you want to discuss new topics, start new threads, donít change the current thread subject.
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« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2017, 11:47:18 am »

If I were a betting man and I'm not, to me the likes of Carnegie Mellon, Williams, Bowdoin or something like a Wittenberg is likely being considered.

I think it's hard to throw out all these names without knowing the athletic aspirations of these schools. 
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« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2017, 12:27:35 pm »

I think it's hard to throw out all these names without knowing the athletic aspirations of these schools. 

Not happening.  Ever. There is no upside in these historic small college programs moving to D-I.  They 100% buy into the small college athletics philosophy. They live in a different athletic universe. 
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« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2017, 02:59:49 pm »

Not happening.  Ever. There is no upside in these historic small college programs moving to D-I.  They 100% buy into the small college athletics philosophy. They live in a different athletic universe. 

And their universe looks better and better every year.
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2017, 08:27:04 am »

Monmouth would move to the PL in a heart beat.  This season they had four PL teams on their FB schedule. Looks like a measured move on the PL's part to have MU join...not sure if the PL would have them join as an associate member for FB only. In any event, I believe MU would join even as an associate member for FB.  I don't believe they care much for the Big South conference at all, saw it as a temporary situation while looking for a better conference as was the case with Stony Brook.
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 03:23:14 pm »

I would agree with Ramer.  The Big South just doesn't make sense for Monmouth. 
I am not sure if they would bring then on as as Associate or not, but I would agree in that I think they would jump at it.

 Keep in mind Liberty Univ is going FBS Independent soon (next year or year after I believe?) so they are leaving the Big South.  The BS only has 6 teams now and if Monmouth were too leave they would have only 4.  I believe you need at least 6 teams to have earn an autobid playoff spot.

I am not overly familiar with Monmouth Univ. but I have driven through their campus earlier int eh year and they it looks very nice.  Nothing sensational, but a nice college campus and close tot he beach.  They have a solid arena and were still building the football stadium when I drove by.  It is finished and seems Ok.

I think if the PL could add one more member that would be a good idea, bringing the league total to 8.  If they want more then they have to go big and shoot for 10 or 12 with 2 divisions.  I doubt the double digit membership will happen.  Regardless, if Fordham wants to compete they desperately need to upgrade the facilities.  As with the hoops floor, the new coaches offices should not have to go the donation route.  They both should have been budgted cap ex projects.  Even better, they shouldn't be implemented at all as we should be going big with new facilities instead of more lipstick on the pig.

This will never happen under Roach as he will not challenge the admin and BoT.

 


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« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2017, 03:37:28 pm »


This will never happen under Roach as he will not challenge the admin and BoT.


I'm less thrilled with Roach than I was a year ago but the facilities situation is well above his pay grade.  I'd even bet that he was told before he was hired that the topic of facilities isn't open for consideration. He understands that it's pointless to rock the boat on the topic.
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2017, 11:17:33 pm »

Roach is a decent guy but honestly he cleaned up Franks mess and otherwise has made minimal improvements.
I just wish this administration would understand athletics. 
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 09:33:27 am »

The teams are winning under Roach, that has to count for quite a bit. Hopefully the AB hire is a one-off bad decision.  He probably has avoided more heat since the PL as a whole is so bad this year. 
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« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2017, 01:32:03 pm »

Roach is a decent guy but honestly he cleaned up Franks mess and otherwise has made minimal improvements.
I just wish this administration would understand athletics. 

The teams are winning for the most part.  As you say, he cleaned up Frank's mess.  The program isn't a priority, I don't really know what else he can do.
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« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 04:29:44 pm »

I'd even bet that he was told before he was hired that the topic of facilities isn't open for consideration. He understands that it's pointless to rock the boat on the topic.

That would be my guess too, that he was told up front during the interview or first day on the job that it's not his job.
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