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Fordham vs. Miami (OH) Pre-Game/Game Thread 11/10/17 at RHG


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Author Topic: Fordham vs. Miami (OH) Pre-Game/Game Thread 11/10/17 at RHG  (Read 3949 times)
greenwood
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« Reply #150 on: November 11, 2017, 09:00:08 am »

Down the stretch we tried to hit home runs with early 3s and thread the needle passes when settling for singles would've been fine.  We forgot we were in control.  Miami Oh had a lot less forward momentum than Sacred Heart did IMO.

I like what Hicks brought defensively. Aside from Ohams he was our most passive offensive player and I'm interested in seeing more there. When Chartouny and Evans are off and Havsa is a non factor, Hicks scoring pedigree should allow him to fill the void.

Ohams cannot be effective down low at this point in his career. Slanina sort of can but also is not too comfortable with back to the basket. If we have 2-3 other guys going good from outside, really Slanina has no offensive purpose. We haven't seen much scoring from Bunting other than putbacks and an occasional midrange j.  We're just not going to post up much.
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« Reply #151 on: November 11, 2017, 09:07:23 am »

I'm not saying these guys are great down low, but in fairness, you cant evaluate them either since they rarely if ever even get the chance. Even if they are not overly skilled, given the lack of size out there, they should be able to reasonably successful. I mean, what the heck is the point of having a 6ft 11 guy out there if he doesnt rebound and drifts out to the 3 point line on offense?  Hopefully, this was just one awful shooting night, but we have been having awful shooting nights consistently for 20 years.....

Ohams and Slanina combined for 3 rebounds, 9 points and 7 personal fouls....so what exactly are they contributing in this coaching scheme?  Nothing.
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« Reply #152 on: November 11, 2017, 09:21:08 am »

they contributed nothing last night that is for sure.  Ohams had two cringe worthy moments on offense last night.  One resulted in a TO the other he got rejected by the net after driving baseline.  Captain obvious says he needs to get better. 
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« Reply #153 on: November 11, 2017, 09:22:56 am »

The point is that it's the Fordham/Miami thread, not a UCONN/AA update/Fordham transfer thread.

Yes, yes, I get it, Mein Capitan. There was literally nothing else to say about our game, and I had the other one on. Thought it might interest some non-doctrinaire Fordham fans...carry on...
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« Reply #154 on: November 11, 2017, 09:24:02 am »

Young team

cbbdan, Miami started three frosh. That is a young team.
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« Reply #155 on: November 11, 2017, 09:30:06 am »

This obsession with the 3 ball is mind numbing.  The schools that can do it effectively have superior athletes and shooters. I understand the game has changed and this is the biggest part of the change but you can still win playing traditional at times. We proved it with Rhoomes. I really hope we are not just going to heave it up every night from 3 and hope for the best...if we do that, given the lack of interior D, you may as well just play 5 guards.

85 - Love it or Hate it, thatís incorrect. If anything, weíre seeing more mid-tier and lower level D1 programs live and die by the 3. FYI, Davidson knocked down 26 of them last night. 26.Ē
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #156 on: November 11, 2017, 09:31:00 am »

There is nothing acceptable about losing that game nothing.  It is the first game of a long season but if this team does not come out mad on Monday it is a horrible sign. Win Monday stabilize after an early horrible loss then we move on.
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« Reply #157 on: November 11, 2017, 09:45:20 am »

85 - Love it or Hate it, thatís incorrect. If anything, weíre seeing more mid-tier and lower level D1 programs live and die by the 3. FYI, Davidson knocked down 26 of them last night. 26.Ē

I dont see how one A-10 team hits 26 and that means that it is effective across the country..... I think more teams are "dying" by the 3, as opposed to living by it. But its irrelevant to Fordham, we have some bigs, but the scheme is causing them to produce nothing and hurt the team a lot more than help it....... Why play any bigs if the role is to never post up, run back early on D so they dont get rebounds and foul out every game? Ohams had 5 fouls in 21 minutes.......Play 3 guards and 2 swingmen....they (bigs) dont help, they end up guarding at top of key and picking up fouls.....when your team shoots 12.5% from 3 and your coach is advocating any player to have a green light to shoot a wide open three, that's a problem.
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« Reply #158 on: November 11, 2017, 09:52:31 am »

Defense at end was really disappointing. Gave up 2 baskets underneath one being a 3 point play with the foul. As many said Sacred Heart all over. Just overall a bad game. poor offensive sets, forced shots. Yes we have new players but Miami was younger. JC needs to play better. He is a Junior and made some bad plays and took some bad shots. Airball on 3 attempt worse. One thing for sure if they don't recruit a legitimate big man things will not get much better. We have no inside presence. Yes even in today's game you need it in certain points.I really don't want to see our big take a 3 with the game on the line in the last minute.
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« Reply #159 on: November 11, 2017, 09:53:15 am »

I dont see how one A-10 team hits 26 and that means that it is effective across the country..... I think more teams are "dying" by the 3, as opposed to living by it. But its irrelevant to Fordham, we have some bigs, but the scheme is causing them to produce nothing and hurt the team a lot more than help it....... Why play any bigs if the role is to never post up, run back early on D so they dont get rebounds and foul out every game? Ohams had 5 fouls in 21 minutes.......Play 3 guards and 2 swingmen....they (bigs) dont help, they end up guarding at top of key and picking up fouls.....when your team shoots 12.5% from 3 and your coach is advocating any player to have a green light to shoot a wide open three, that's a problem.


Not once have you pointed to a skill set these guys have other than height to show they can post up.  Iíve seen nothing in these guys to say they are going to be physical on the blocks and finish like Rhoomes. Not one thing.
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« Reply #160 on: November 11, 2017, 09:54:54 am »

Donít you guys get it?  We are not recruiting post players get it through your heads. If that is what you want stop watching not going to happen. It is 2017 not 1987.
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« Reply #161 on: November 11, 2017, 09:57:16 am »

You are wildly missing the point.

Then recruit some flipping guys who can shoot the damn basketball. You talk about me not pointing to a skill set?   What skill set do these bigs have for shooting outside? None. So there is no point playing them if they cant rebound, foul, out every game and dont score. They shouldnt be on the floor if this is the scheme, that is the point.  If this is the system, then tell me how Slanina or Ohams will contribute?
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« Reply #162 on: November 11, 2017, 09:57:45 am »

Donít you guys get it?  We are not recruiting post players get it through your heads. If that is what you want stop watching not going to happen. It is 2017 not 1987.

That's right. There are two positions in 2018, point guard and guard.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #163 on: November 11, 2017, 09:59:18 am »

That's right. There are two positions in 2018, point guard and guard.

I dont disagree. So exactly what is the point of using these bigs in this scheme? To me they hurt a lot more than they help. Slanina, Ohams and Bunting are foul machines.  And if they dont score or rebound, then what is the point?  Go small and bomb away. 
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« Reply #164 on: November 11, 2017, 10:01:55 am »

You are wildly missing the point.

Then recruit some flipping guys who can shoot the damn basketball. You talk about me not pointing to a skill set?   What skill set do these bigs have for shooting outside? None. So there is no point playing them if they cant rebound, foul, out every game and dont score. They shouldnt be on the floor if this is the scheme, that is the point.

Itís one game. Chuba was supposed to be able to take the ball to the basket his offensive skills are limited.  If he does not start to rebound we will play small.  Slanina taking 3 threes game is fine depending on when that is why he was recruited.  Reality we shoot 3-25 from 3 we will lose a lot of games.  Evans goes 2-10 we lose. Chartouny plays that poorly we lose.  That is who we are.  Ohams and Slanina are supposed to block shots and rebound on defense.
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« Reply #165 on: November 11, 2017, 10:03:37 am »

39 minutes for the three (3) bigs and 8 personal fouls....that will kill us if it continues.....and it will, we saw it last year.......I just dont see how their play offsets the fouling..
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« Reply #166 on: November 11, 2017, 10:07:15 am »

39 minutes for the three (3) bigs and 8 personal fouls....that will kill us if it continues.....and it will, we saw it last year.......I just dont see how their play offsets the fouling..

I agree. Last night they were horrible.  But itís first game weíve seen Neubauer get this team going after bad losses. If it continues could see lineup of

Evans
Chartouny
Hicks
Tavares
Raut

Bombs away
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« Reply #167 on: November 11, 2017, 10:15:00 am »

I think we will have to play small in the A-10. Bunting, Slanina and Ohams will be taking 12-15 fouls every game and we will lose at the line if they get significant minutes. 

Even though its one game, there is clearly no improvement or adjustment for the bigs foul problems. This scheme leads to the bigs taking way too many fouls. If they are not skilled in other areas, then there is nothing to offset the fouls. 

I agree with your possible new lineup.
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« Reply #168 on: November 11, 2017, 10:15:01 am »

Was at the game last night and saw two well below average teams scramble all over the court.  We had a 12 point lead at home and let it slip away.  Very frustrating.  Miami (OH) is about as bad a team as we will face this year.  We have the players we have, the quality of their play must improve.  'Nuff said.
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« Reply #169 on: November 11, 2017, 10:22:41 am »

Well for better or worse we finally have an entire team equipped to play the same style and no square pegs in round holes (Sengfelder).  I vote better when all is said and done.
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« Reply #170 on: November 11, 2017, 10:37:16 am »

Well for better or worse we finally have an entire team equipped to play the same style and no square pegs in round holes (Sengfelder).  I vote better when all is said and done.

Definitely. If we had escaped by 4 points, the tone is very different. The fact that the bottom line is a L is difficult to accept. A couple wins against LIU and Tulane would be very helpful.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #171 on: November 11, 2017, 11:14:18 am »

I think the biggest concern with JN's strategy is the players seem to wear out through the game. At one point in the 2nd half one of the announcers pointed out that Ohams was signaling to the bench that he needed to come out. His request was ignored and after two additional possessions he again asked and according to the announcer - JN yells back "I heard you!" but did nothing.  I think the intense defense impacts the offense. Shooting accuracy falls when players are tired. We played better last year after we had a number of injuries and JN had to tone down the defensive intensity.
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« Reply #172 on: November 11, 2017, 11:27:13 am »

I think the biggest concern with JN's strategy is the players seem to wear out through the game. At one point in the 2nd half one of the announcers pointed out that Ohams was signaling to the bench that he needed to come out. His request was ignored and after two additional possessions he again asked and according to the announcer - JN yells back "I heard you!" but did nothing.  I think the intense defense impacts the offense. Shooting accuracy falls when players are tired. We played better last year after we had a number of injuries and JN had to tone down the defensive intensity.


That was in the first half for crying out loud.  Neubauer rightfully ripped him when he came out of the game.  Ohams played 21 Minutes  if you canít do that then you are not an A-10 player.  Neubauer also got on Tavares who responded with a strong second half. 

As for shooting we shot 3-25 throughout the game.  Come on with this stuff.
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« Reply #173 on: November 11, 2017, 11:45:22 am »

Taveras was getting to the rim at will in the 2nd half, yet we decide to hoist 3s down the stretch.  We were one foul away from shooting 1-and-1, but we never made them pay.  This Miami team was awful.  

I've seen Slanina get the ball in the post and not look uncomfortable, whether angling towards the basket or looking to pass out of the post.  Just the threat of having to defend the post and the off-the-ball issues for the defense make it worthwhile to attempt throughout the game.

A big issue with our bigs is that they are asked to cover a wide swath of the floor.  On offense, they are often above the FT line and on defense they are on an island with their teammates pressuring the ball high and far.

Havsa looked lost on both ends of the floor in his limited minutes

 
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« Reply #174 on: November 11, 2017, 11:56:14 am »

I waited to post like I always do after terrible losses. Letís make no mistake it was a terrible loss to a bad team at home. Unacceptable. My biggest concern right now is the lack of tested players who can gut one out on a bad shooting night. JC and WT didnít get it done last night down the stretch. I wish JN had gone with experience and played Havsa and PS at the end as they showed glimpses of accepting the big moment last year.

Now that being said, one bad loss is not a reason to blow up the system you have been recruiting to and declare the JN era a disaster. Everybody take a breath and realize that we probably will not shoot 12% from 3 again in the next 3 years. That combined with the missed FTs was clear nerves from a young team and we still should have won. I think we actually got away from the 3 too much on the 2nd half. Guys missed and got tentative.

Make no mistake that Monday will be more bombs away and it should be. This is who we are and who will be and there is no doubt in my mind that it is the right way forward. The guys need to gout on Monday and play mad and with a swagger and rain 3ís all over LIU
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« Reply #175 on: November 11, 2017, 11:56:30 am »


Havsa looked lost on both ends of the floor in his limited minutes
 

Yes. He would pound the ball aimlessly and then give it up.
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« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2017, 12:55:35 pm »



Havsa looked lost on both ends of the floor in his limited minutes

 

Because he is. Which is why he received limited minutes. Fellow fans on here overrate him, IMO. 
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« Reply #177 on: November 11, 2017, 02:41:07 pm »

I waited to post like I always do after terrible losses. Letís make no mistake it was a terrible loss to a bad team at home. Unacceptable. My biggest concern right now is the lack of tested players who can gut one out on a bad shooting night. JC and WT didnít get it done last night down the stretch. I wish JN had gone with experience and played Havsa and PS at the end as they showed glimpses of accepting the big moment last year.

Now that being said, one bad loss is not a reason to blow up the system you have been recruiting to and declare the JN era a disaster. Everybody take a breath and realize that we probably will not shoot 12% from 3 again in the next 3 years. That combined with the missed FTs was clear nerves from a young team and we still should have won. I think we actually got away from the 3 too much on the 2nd half. Guys missed and got tentative.

Make no mistake that Monday will be more bombs away and it should be. This is who we are and who will be and there is no doubt in my mind that it is the right way forward. The guys need to gout on Monday and play mad and with a swagger and rain 3ís all over LIU

I don't mind taking 3s generally but as the game gets later and you have a lead you have to maximize your scoring chance per possession. We made 59%+ from inside the arc.  From Tavares 2s at 13 minutes and 5 minutes left in 2nd half we went 8 minutes with only 2 points. 0-4 from 3 and two JC TOs.  Then we missed some more, with some 2s from Slanina JC and Tavares rest of way.  Missed some late 3s late.  Those should have been 2s. With a late lead you are going for the shot least likely to lead to an empty possession.  The effectively higher points per possession off 3s math works over the entire game on average, but taking them with a late lead is poor clock management.

A very bad loss.  But it's one game. Unfortunately dredging up late game issues against Sacred Heart, GW and Gearge Mason last year.

Shoot better. My guess is they were tight and it showed.

On rebounding, last year after the early start, through most of conference the games were close in boarding give or take. But we have a few games with massive deficits.  Mason killed us.  But It shouldn't normally be that lopsided.  So let's nip this in the bud. 
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« Reply #178 on: November 11, 2017, 03:27:24 pm »

I agree. Last night they were horrible.  But itís first game weíve seen Neubauer get this team going after bad losses. If it continues could see lineup of

Evans
Chartouny
Hicks
Tavares
Raut

Bombs away

I like that lineup. I find it hard to believe that lineup could be outrebounded any worse than last night.
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« Reply #179 on: November 12, 2017, 08:06:53 pm »

HOWYADOIN?

Watching the game, I assumed that Miami had a lot of returning players very familiar with each other.  In reality, this was the first time many of them had played a game together.  We ran away from our offensive board as if it was radioactive.  There were few 50-50-balls most seemed to be 100-0 opportunities for Miami.  If their shots (created with smart, crisp passing (with a few sloppy ones thrown in), good plays and athleticism) were dropping and if their starting PG didn't commit a bad foul for his 4th at the 10 minute mark it would have been a blow-out.  Our "three and out" guys (did we invent that?) were clearly missed as were Zarc and Pek.

As for tomorrow night, if the same Rams show up, their will be some Blackbirds singing' in the EARLY night in the Bronx, broken wings or not! 
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