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Fordham vs. Florida State (Montego Bay) - 11/17/17


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Author Topic: Fordham vs. Florida State (Montego Bay) - 11/17/17  (Read 3059 times)
BuckeyeRAM
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« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2017, 09:14:58 pm »

Rough shooting night for Fordham. My prediction before the game was 82-62 FSU after seeing FSU destroy GW 87-67 a few days ago. I actually felt the effort was there especially defensively (we took numerous charges) and rebounding wise (37) but 1-22 shooting from 3 point range and 23 turnovers on only 3 assists is really bad. I know FSU's defense, size, length, and athleticism had something to do with it but there is still no excuse for that kind of shooting and for that amount of turnovers. These guys need to hit the gym and really practice their 3 point shooting and work on protecting the ball. Rout was 0-6 from 3 point range and had 5 turnovers, Evans was 1-7 from the floor with 3 to's, JC was 1-7 from the floor and only took two 3's the whole game, Havsa was 0-3 in 3 pointers including 2 air-balls and he had 4 turnovers too.  This is a game where we really missed the 3 point shooting of Sengfelder and Anderson who are shooting the lights out from 3 point range after there first couple of games for their new teams which are undefeated. We also miss AA's ball handling, speed, and athleticism.

There were a couple of bright spots tonight that we can take way from this game. Tavares has really improved his game and was really quick, fearless, and solid in attacking and driving to the basket, and finishing strong! Taveres lead all scorers tonight with 18 points and was 7-15 in field goals. He had 5 rebounds and is a good re-bounder too. Fordham did a great job of rebounding tonight despite FSU having two 7 footers. Fordham had 37 rebounds to FSU's 39 and we had 14 offensive rebounds. Fordham's defense played well despite FSU's size advantage. FSU normally scores 86-90 points a game and our defense held them to 67 points. We didn't give up or quit even after falling behind 50-22. We went on a 21-11 run to cut the score to 61-43 at one point. Also, we were only down 22-16 with 5 minutes to go in the 1st Half. Bunting battled when he was in there and had 3 rebounds, 2 points, a steal, and a block. Slanina had an off night shooting but had 5 off rebounds, 2 steals, and a block. JC was off with his shooting tonight but he did give a good effort in terms of rebounding (He had 11 rebounds/3 off and was the leading re-bounder for the game plus he had 4 steals (most in the game). He was not aggressive enough in terms of shooting more and looking to score more. He only took 1 or 2 shots the whole 2nd half. We need JC to score more points. Hopefully we will shoot better next game and beat Tulane Sunday night to get a split in Jamaica.

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« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2017, 09:19:33 pm »

85,
     Can't let this stuff make you crazy. I just think we are not that good and it's gonna take time to improve. We had no shot against FSU. They are bigger, stronger and better. The Miami loss bothered me a lot more than this. We just need to have a good practice and be ready to play Tulane. As for players not caring or not playing hard, that is our coaches responsibility to have these guys ready and if they are not ready then sit their ass. I'm worried about this years team but I believe the potential is there to be solid next year. With Tulane, Manhattan and Harvard coming up we better get our act together. Also, I hope your not right about Evans being most over rated you have ever seen at FU because there was lots of high hopes for him.
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« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2017, 09:21:44 pm »

The game was tough to watch. A number of our players (JC, Evans Havas) are not playing well.  The A10 looks very weak this year. ST Louis is getting smoked by Providence. Dayton lost to Hofstra. If FU can not improve their conference record, then a coaching change is warranted. The one JN comment that blew my mind was at the A10 media day when he said he did not realize that recruiting was so important.  
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« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2017, 09:29:51 pm »

The one JN comment that blew my mind was at the A10 media day when he said he did not realize that recruiting was so important.  

He actually said that? Wow.
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« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2017, 09:41:32 pm »

85,
     Can't let this stuff make you crazy.

Too late. Did you read his posts in this thread?

And he tells someone else they should be institutionalized. Precious.
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« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2017, 09:52:14 pm »

He actually said that? Wow.
I went back and listened to the interview again. He actually said that recruiting was the key to winning at FU. He said he has been recruiting in Europe and now is concentrating on recruiting HS seniors. My issue here really is I think the staff was not prepared to recruit HS seniors last year - lost out on a number of targets and had to scramble to get Evans and Raut. It looks like things are better with the 2 early signings this year.
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« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2017, 10:31:47 pm »

I'm pretty happy with our defense. When you're that abysmal offensively it's really hard to sustain defensive effort, we did have a few more breakdowns as the game went on but in general that half of the game was really high level.  Some nitpicking there would be unnecessary reach-ins by Hicks, and Tavares getting caught up high too often, though I'm sure guarding a seven footer wasn't his idea of a fun day.

So, the offense.  A few cardinal sins each occurred multiple times today.  Don't act like you're going to set a screen and then decide not to, that's damn confusing for the ballhandler.  Don't dump the ball to one of your guards in the forest on the baseline unless there's a really good plan what to do next. And if you're too psyched out to shoot straight, give it up to those that aren't (only 2 guys fell in that category).

I make a distinction between psyched out and intimidated - I didn't see anyone who played scared, but a good amount of confusion and hopelessness. Still unacceptable but much more curable.
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« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2017, 10:45:36 pm »

Iím not sure what everyone was expecting today. We were grossly outmanned. I liked our defense today. Tavares and I think it was Evans drove to the basket several times.  Hard to fault some of the guys when youíre taking it in against a 7í4Ē guy swatting shots out of the gym.

Their team was taller and faster.   Yeah we couldíve banged down a few more 3s and a few less turnovers and it might have been a little closer. 

From what I saw today I would predict a .500 record for the year.  Middle of the pack in the A10.

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« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2017, 11:05:56 pm »

I'm pretty happy with our defense. When you're that abysmal offensively it's really hard to sustain defensive effort, we did have a few more breakdowns as the game went on but in general that half of the game was really high level.  Some nitpicking there would be unnecessary reach-ins by Hicks, and Tavares getting caught up high too often, though I'm sure guarding a seven footer wasn't his idea of a fun day.

So, the offense.  A few cardinal sins each occurred multiple times today.  Don't act like you're going to set a screen and then decide not to, that's damn confusing for the ballhandler.  Don't dump the ball to one of your guards in the forest on the baseline unless there's a really good plan what to do next. And if you're too psyched out to shoot straight, give it up to those that aren't (only 2 guys fell in that category).

I make a distinction between psyched out and intimidated - I didn't see anyone who played scared, but a good amount of confusion and hopelessness. Still unacceptable but much more curable.

Were they slipping screens too early or just not setting them? On the subject of screens, I feel our guards don't use them very well. They don't get close enough to the guy setting the screen, so it is too easy for the defender to get past the screen and stick with the guard.
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« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2017, 11:08:10 pm »

From what I saw today I would predict a .500 record for the year.  Middle of the pack in the A10.


I hope you are correct. But I think you are a little too optimistic based on what we have seen so far.
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« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2017, 11:08:22 pm »

Iím not sure what everyone was expecting today. We were grossly outmanned. I liked our defense today. Tavares and I think it was Evans drove to the basket several times.  Hard to fault some of the guys when youíre taking it in against a 7í4Ē guy swatting shots out of the gym.

Their team was taller and faster.   Yeah we couldíve banged down a few more 3s and a few less turnovers and it might have been a little closer. 

From what I saw today I would predict a .500 record for the year.  Middle of the pack in the A10.



thats exactly the mindset we should reject      most long term fans were expecting exactly what we saw today, including me    after 22 -23 years in the A10, the goal is NCAA, not " their team was taller and faster "    get the players and compete  or move on  
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« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2017, 11:17:28 pm »

Were they slipping screens too early or just not setting them? On the subject of screens, I feel our guards don't use them very well. They don't get close enough to the guy setting the screen, so it is too easy for the defender to get past the screen and stick with the guard.

Raut does not seem to know how to set a screen. Evans seemed to be looking to use screens and guys would get in his way, namely Chartouny.  I think Evans has a plan out there more often than not, so wanted to blame Chartouny, but really I don't know whose fault it was.
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« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2017, 11:59:32 pm »

Raut does not seem to know how to set a screen. Evans seemed to be looking to use screens and guys would get in his way, namely Chartouny.  I think Evans has a plan out there more often than not, so wanted to blame Chartouny, but really I don't know whose fault it was.

Evans has more skill than Chartouny. The guile and anticipation that has served JC well may have been left in his "Draft process" declaration. It's early, but he may be ready for Marseilles more than we had anticipated.
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« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2017, 05:44:52 am »

Maybe when coach said if you have an open shot, you have the green light to take it, he was referring to tequila?

 
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« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2017, 08:18:33 am »

thats exactly the mindset we should reject      most long term fans were expecting exactly what we saw today, including me    after 22 -23 years in the A10, the goal is NCAA, not " their team was taller and faster "    get the players and compete  or move on  

Florida State is routinely one of the biggest teams in the country.  And we rebounded fine.

We turned them over. But way too many turnovers of our own. And we shot horribly. They weren't all that good from 3 either.  The FUV guys said the stadium and lighting made for tough shooting, although unguarded they nailed them in practice.

The Miami loss makes this tougher to take. The D seems fine.  But with so many guards you'd think we could handle the ball and shoot a little.  Still think we can be pretty good but they obviously need to get used to each other.  Taveras was a beast.  Tulane is not as tough a task.
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« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2017, 08:26:00 am »

Iím not sure what everyone was expecting today. We were grossly outmanned. I liked our defense today. Tavares and I think it was Evans drove to the basket several times.  Hard to fault some of the guys when youíre taking it in against a 7í4Ē guy swatting shots out of the gym.

Their team was taller and faster.   Yeah we couldíve banged down a few more 3s and a few less turnovers and it might have been a little closer. 

From what I saw today I would predict a .500 record for the year.  Middle of the pack in the A10.


We shot 1-22 from 3 point range. That was worse than the Miami game which didn't see possible. Once okay, twice getting a bit concerned.
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« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2017, 08:36:27 am »

We shot 1-22 from 3 point range. That was worse than the Miami game which didn't see possible. Once okay, twice getting a bit concerned.

Tied them in the shot battle. Both teams took 52 fg and 25 FTs. Could have won that battle but we turned it over a ton. And not just due to FSU defense it seemed.  But you have to make 3s.  JC made them last year, especially in conference.  Taveras, Evans and Hicks all made them in junior college.  And seems like they had open ones. The basket height and distance are the same.  Start making them.
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« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2017, 08:38:38 am »

I dont see any attendance listed but it seemed like there were about 100 fans there. What is the point of going to this place ?
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« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2017, 09:25:25 am »

While we had zero chance driving - except Tavares - guards would often drive and then pass out for an open 3. Sadly, no one could hit these open threes, no one. And, as has been pointed out, JC's foul shooting is a real concern. Leaving his 3/8 out, we actually hit 15/17!
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« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2017, 09:33:04 am »

thats exactly the mindset we should reject      most long term fans were expecting exactly what we saw today, including me    after 22 -23 years in the A10, the goal is NCAA, not " their team was taller and faster "    get the players and compete  or move on  

I donít completely disagree with this.  I am talking what my expectations were when I turned the game on yesterday not as towards the program as a whole.  I was looking for good defensive which they gave and to protect the ball which we did not.  FSUs speed and height is what killed us. Hard to hit highly contested shots and even open looks did not look comfortable as a result.

There were definitely negatives yesterday(turnovers and missed free throws) but again I wasnít anticipating a close game. 

I will admit I am an overly optimistic person in general which is what makes it tough to be a Fordham Menís Basketball fan.

Go Rams!
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« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2017, 10:14:51 am »

1-22 from 3 23 turnovers.  Fsu had 9 blocks.  Not our best effort but it was a happy hour game so the beers and wings made it easy to ignore after the first half. 
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« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2017, 10:17:18 am »

What was higher, your BAC or the shooting percentage from three?  Roll Eyes  Question is rhetorical if asked of me.
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« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2017, 11:15:06 am »

What did people expect out of this game. A 20 point game is pretty much what I expected. That is a good defensive team and a terrible match-up for us. We looked terrible on offense but a lot of that was FSU's length and athleticism.

JN's team's always get better and this team will continue to improve. I think we already are pretty good on defense. That was a decent effort last night turning them over and rotating to draw charges. IT was a terrible match-up for us on the other side of the court. We like to play a slow pace and work the clock. That is tough to do when every pass is tough and they are challenging every shot.

Tulane is a much better match-up. Let's go out and win.
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« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2017, 11:23:49 am »

What did people expect out of this game.

I expected that we would shoot better than 1 for 22 from 3. FSU is big inside, you would think Coach might have told the team "hey guys- we likely will take a lot of perimeter shots in this game- come ready to drain those 3s"

1 for 22...jeez   Undecided

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« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2017, 11:37:02 am »

...  But with so many guards you'd think we could handle the ball and shoot a little.  ...

Nail on head.
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« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2017, 11:52:04 am »

Too late. Did you read his posts in this thread?

And he tells someone else they should be institutionalized. Precious.

   I thought his comments were spot on, just with a little added color. 
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« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2017, 11:54:02 am »

Iím not sure what everyone was expecting today. We were grossly outmanned. I liked our defense today. Tavares and I think it was Evans drove to the basket several times.  Hard to fault some of the guys when youíre taking it in against a 7í4Ē guy swatting shots out of the gym.

Their team was taller and faster.   Yeah we couldíve banged down a few more 3s and a few less turnovers and it might have been a little closer. 

From what I saw today I would predict a .500 record for the year.  Middle of the pack in the A10.



Bottom line is it would be nice to be competitive in games like this. I was not expecting to win but if even if we end up losing by double digits at the end if we could have hung around for a half or even the first 30 minutes that would have been fine. But after basically 10 minutes there was no game. this time of year teams play in tournaments and play up in some of their OOC games. Sure they lose but some games are respectable and competitive for part of the game. It would be nice to see us do it for once. heck even Stoney Brook led UConn by 9 with 5 minutes to go although they eventually lost. But there was a game to watch.
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« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2017, 12:00:12 pm »

   It's very difficult to shoot 3-24 from 3s in a game, only to follow up shortly with a 1-22 showing.  And that's in CYO.

   We have shooters in the low 30% on 3s.  I don't expect them to improve much by this stage. 

   We have several non-A10 caliber players on our roster.  Recruiting must pick up significantly.
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« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2017, 12:10:26 pm »

Horrible matchup for us.  Evans is 3 games into his college career give him some time to get going.  Chartouny needs to get his ass in gear.  He is a junior talked about going pro ok I am fine with that but time to produce.  The declarations of lack of talent were made last year as well the team got it together as the year went on.  Will that happen this year?   I do not know but I am not going nuts over game 3 loss to an ACC team.

Carry on.
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« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2017, 12:31:03 pm »

   I thought his comments were spot on, just with a little added color. 

The repetitiveness was wholly unnecessary.
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Nothing replaces success in the revenue sports.  Nothing.  That's not to take away from the success in the Olympic sports - they do matter.  It isn't a replacement for success in the flagship sports. - Debbie Yow, AD - NC State

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