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Fordham vs. Manhattan Jaspers Pre-Game/In-Game, 2pm - 11/26/17


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Author Topic: Fordham vs. Manhattan Jaspers Pre-Game/In-Game, 2pm - 11/26/17  (Read 3509 times)
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« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2017, 12:26:04 am »

Back from the game.  Not much to add with what's already been said without being redundant.  Bunting really came through in Slanina's absence with Tavares solid and Hicks a great game.  Raut can hit his shots which we will really need going forward.  Always great to beat Manhattan (at least for us guys circa 1968).

Big criticism from me is how we allowed the clock to wind down so that at least 5 times we had shot clock violations.  That has to change.  We have to be aware of that damn timepiece. 

Going forward really depends on whether we have Bunting and Slanina available because without some sort of presence in the middle, I can't see us succeeding against our A-10 opponents.
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« Reply #151 on: November 27, 2017, 01:43:49 am »

Glad I got to see a nice win in person. If Bunting and Raut can perform like that consistently, we may have something here. My only complaint was that 3 minute stretch in the 2nd half. Fighting back from that won't be easy against A10 opponents.

My take on the crowd, I actually thought it was a good one considering the circumstances. Two disappointing, underachieving teams, with the same adjectives to describe the two programs, on what might possibly be the worst time to schedule this game the whole Thanksgiving weekend. That won't move the needle no matter who considers this a rivalry (I happen to think it is, it's just a very dormant one at this point). If both programs stepped it up in wins and losses, I actually think in time, it could become a perfect Friday night/Saturday night after Thanksgiving matchup.
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« Reply #152 on: November 27, 2017, 07:43:54 am »

Manhattan requested the Sunday game instead of Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving because they had played three consecutive days- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Fordham is always accommodating to its opponents. 
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« Reply #153 on: November 27, 2017, 08:32:25 am »

This was a gritty , Neubauer win.

One minor issue, can some people, specifically the announcers alluding to the coaches, stop the insanity of saying Raut could be the greatest shooter in Fordham history. He is 5 games into a career, one of which he was 0-6 from 3.  I like Raut, very much but 5 games ......and he has yet to even play a conference game....please god.
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« Reply #154 on: November 27, 2017, 09:01:33 am »

One minor issue, can some people, specifically the announcers alluding to the coaches, stop the insanity of saying Raut could be the greatest shooter in Fordham history. He is 5 games into a career, one of which he was 0-6 from 3.  I like Raut, very much but 5 games ......and he has yet to even play a conference game....please god.

It really is embarrassing. Great that he's contributing but the hyperbole is absurd.

PS - I haven't seen enough of him defensively/at all.. To the few that can actually have an opinion, what are you seeing in him in the half-court?
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« Reply #155 on: November 27, 2017, 09:28:33 am »

It really is embarrassing. Great that he's contributing but the hyperbole is absurd.

PS - I haven't seen enough of him defensively/at all.. To the few that can actually have an opinion, what are you seeing in him in the half-court?

He can get beat off the dribble if isolated but he's been a good system defender so far, he gets deflections, doesn't overplay passes too often.  The staff used to have to scheme around Sengfelder because of his refrigerator-like mobility, they don't need to worry about that with Raut because he can handle the activity level.  If CS was a fridge, IR is more like a coffee cart.
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« Reply #156 on: November 27, 2017, 09:40:40 am »

He can get beat off the dribble if isolated but he's been a good system defender so far, he gets deflections, doesn't overplay passes too often.  The staff used to have to scheme around Sengfelder because of his refrigerator-like mobility, they don't need to worry about that with Raut because he can handle the activity level.  If CS was a fridge, IR is more like a coffee cart.

nice to hear.

If you look at how the ships have taken shape (adding Portley, Honor, Austin) to Evans, Hicks, Chartouny (probably not), Havsa...Raut would likely be a 4th guard on the floor at times.

I can't believe how thin the front court is.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #157 on: November 27, 2017, 10:02:53 am »

1.  Great to see the contagious defensive intensity persist through long scoring droughts.  That's tough to do.

2.  Love seeing Taveras assertiveness on the offensive end.  We'll need that more going forward.

3.  Solid game by Raut.  Key is to remain selective and efficient on the offensive end.

4.  Bunting solid, too, but he won't be enough going forward on our schedule.

5.  Pekarek and Havsa are lost.  Evans better wake up.  Honor/Austin/Portley on deck to take those minutes.

6.  This year's Manhattan team is bad. 
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« Reply #158 on: November 27, 2017, 10:33:26 am »



5.  Pekarek and Havsa are lost.  Evans better wake up.  Honor/Austin/Portley on deck to take those minutes.



Don't forget Gazi
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« Reply #159 on: November 27, 2017, 10:46:00 am »

This was a gritty , Neubauer win.

One minor issue, can some people, specifically the announcers alluding to the coaches, stop the insanity of saying Raut could be the greatest shooter in Fordham history. He is 5 games into a career, one of which he was 0-6 from 3.  I like Raut, very much but 5 games ......and he has yet to even play a conference game....please god.

     I thought trey blue was the greatest shooter in Fordham history after his debut?  Let's practice hard, get healthy and be ready to go against ETSU. We might be able to steal one because I do not believe they are as good as last season. Go rams!
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« Reply #160 on: November 27, 2017, 10:51:22 am »

     I thought trey blue was the greatest shooter in Fordham history after his debut?  Let's practice hard, get healthy and be ready to go against ETSU. We might be able to steal one because I do not believe they are as good as last season. Go rams!

How about a guy from our class....Pain and Gain!
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« Reply #161 on: November 27, 2017, 11:08:47 am »

When talking about the front court we have to remember what this staff wants to do: steal the ball shoot threes and shorten the game  when no transition baskets are available on offense. We donít need two bigs out there for this strategy in fact it is counter productive in some ways.  Obviously if we have all three bigs injured we are in trouble (like any other team in the A-10) but this team has a better chance of getting through it given how we play on both ends of the floor.
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« Reply #162 on: November 27, 2017, 11:09:24 am »

I can't believe how thin the front court is.

Well, if nothing else, that should put to rest the debate over which system might work better for us. We are what we are now (at least for this year) so we might as well go all in and own it...Go Rams!
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« Reply #163 on: November 27, 2017, 11:24:46 am »

When talking about the front court we have to remember what this staff wants to do: steal the ball shoot threes and shorten the game  when no transition baskets are available on offense. We donít need two bigs out there for this strategy in fact it is counter productive in some ways.  Obviously if we have all three bigs injured we are in trouble (like any other team in the A-10) but this team has a better chance of getting through it given how we play on both ends of the floor.

True story. Even with this particular system, we're short a legit big - and a playable wing. We have a couple too many unplayable guards. There are games ahead where we will be able to press effectively for a few minutes at a time, but the end result will be -22 on the glass and punked in the second half because we've burned ourselves out exerting energy.

Any forecasts or predictions can be thrown away, IMO.

I could see us winning 3 of the next 5, and then 3 of the next 15 that follow it.

I had called Chuba the most valuable piece for good reason, it's going to be very difficult to be competitive after December. I'm being realistic.

Next year looks promising, particularly in the backcourt, but I've thought that for nineteen years now.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #164 on: November 27, 2017, 11:29:46 am »

You were talking about replacing Neubauer last year.   I think he makes us better as the year goes on provided we have Slanina and Bunting.  Them at the 5 gives us enough rebounding I donít see the A-10 as a tough front court league this year for the most part. 
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« Reply #165 on: November 27, 2017, 11:34:24 am »

You were talking about replacing Neubauer last year.   I think he makes us better as the year goes on provided we have Slanina and Bunting.  Them at the 5 gives us enough rebounding I donít see the A-10 as a tough front court league this year for the most part. 

I don't think JN has confidence in Bunting staying healthy. That comes through in most of his commentary about him.

We could handle a blow to our backcourt and push through, Chuba is probably the one player/position that makes it very difficult to - I think you agree too, as most preseason notes followed a similar sentiment.
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Any other team wins the World Series, good for them. They're drinking champagne, they get a ring. But if we win, on our budget, with this team... we'll have changed the game. And that's what I want. I want it to mean something. - Moneyball
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« Reply #166 on: November 27, 2017, 11:40:06 am »

I don't think JN has confidence in Bunting staying healthy. That comes through in most of his commentary about him.

We could handle a blow to our backcourt and push through, Chuba is probably the one player/position that makes it very difficult to - I think you agree too, as most preseason notes followed a similar sentiment.

Losing chuba hurts if we also lose Bunting or Slanina but I donít know too many teams that could fight through that.  My point is given our strategy we are more equipped than other to do so.  I think Raut makes it easier to deal with Chuba out.  I did not expect him to be starting even when Chuba was healthy.

A lot of stuff has been floating around about injuries to multiple players since preseason that turned out to be false. Until I hear an announcement from the player or school I assume they will play   If they end up being injured deal with it then. 
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« Reply #167 on: November 27, 2017, 11:49:48 am »

You were talking about replacing Neubauer last year.   I think he makes us better as the year goes on provided we have Slanina and Bunting.  Them at the 5 gives us enough rebounding I donít see the A-10 as a tough front court league this year for the most part. 

I agree we are fine with these two. Only one will play at a time anyway. As long as those two can stay on the court then we should be fine. If we only have 1 of the 3 then it gets scary with Foul Trouble. The plan should be big mins for PS and limit mins from JB to try and keep him healthy.

You can pretty much throw Chartouny, Taveres, Evans, Raut, Hicks, Havsa, and Pekarek (also Zarko if healthy) into the same bucket. 4 of those 7 guys will always be on the court. Next year Gazi, Portley, Honor and Austin join this group. In our system it makes little sense to have big slow defenders (Athletic length is good) and rebounding is not an emphasis.
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« Reply #168 on: November 27, 2017, 12:29:16 pm »

Losing chuba hurts if we also lose Bunting or Slanina but I donít know too many teams that could fight through that.  My point is given our strategy we are more equipped than other to do so.  I think Raut makes it easier to deal with Chuba out.  I did not expect him to be starting even when Chuba was healthy.

A lot of stuff has been floating around about injuries to multiple players since preseason that turned out to be false. Until I hear an announcement from the player or school I assume they will play   If they end up being injured deal with it then. 

If healthy, Bunting should start every single game from here on out. No questions asked. The shot clock violations were difficult to watch. I'm glad we beat Manhattan, and am taking it one game at a time, but as of now we are in big trouble come A-10 play. Big.
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« Reply #169 on: November 27, 2017, 02:59:55 pm »

Manhattan requested the Sunday game instead of Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving because they had played three consecutive days- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Fordham is always accommodating to its opponents. 

Harvard-Yale and Lehigh-Lafayette have their big rivalry game in football, this should be ours in basketball.  Fordham and Manhattan have to agree on the importance of respecting and building this up as an authentic NYC rivalry and Thanksgiving tradition.  It's in both of their interests to do so given where they are at. 

There has to be a scheduling rule that it always takes place on a certain day (for example: Saturday night).  It just shouldn't change for anything short of a public safety situation, with Sunday being reserved strictly as the fallback option.  When you do this, yes you may have to pass on certain tournament opportunities, but you get the benefit of getting better crowds, press coverage, etc.. 
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« Reply #170 on: November 27, 2017, 04:37:17 pm »

Harvard-Yale and Lehigh-Lafayette have their big rivalry game in football, this should be ours in basketball.  Fordham and Manhattan have to agree on the importance of respecting and building this up as an authentic NYC rivalry and Thanksgiving tradition.  It's in both of their interests to do so given where they are at. 

There has to be a scheduling rule that it always takes place on a certain day (for example: Saturday night).  It just shouldn't change for anything short of a public safety situation, with Sunday being reserved strictly as the fallback option.  When you do this, yes you may have to pass on certain tournament opportunities, but you get the benefit of getting better crowds, press coverage, etc.. 
you're comparing league games to non-league games.  Not the same.  Those other rivalries thrive in part because they play in the same conference.  It adds to the rivalry.  There are only a handful of rivalries that exist outside of conferences and most of them are limited to the two biggest teams in a state playing against each other (UGA v Ga Tech, FSU v UofF, etc).

Still, it should be our biggest local OOC game since we don't play anyone else regularly and we're from the same borough.  You can't maintain it as a rivalry when it's played on a holiday weekend and no students around.  Some will argue that students don't attend games but you're guaranteeing no students and very few fans when it's played on this weekend.
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« Reply #171 on: November 27, 2017, 07:31:54 pm »

Harvard-Yale and Lehigh-Lafayette have their big rivalry game in football, this should be ours in basketball.  Fordham and Manhattan have to agree on the importance of respecting and building this up as an authentic NYC rivalry and Thanksgiving tradition.  It's in both of their interests to do so given where they are at. 

There has to be a scheduling rule that it always takes place on a certain day (for example: Saturday night).  It just shouldn't change for anything short of a public safety situation, with Sunday being reserved strictly as the fallback option.  When you do this, yes you may have to pass on certain tournament opportunities, but you get the benefit of getting better crowds, press coverage, etc.. 

Agree. And Fordham and Manhattan have honored the tradition. It has to be the longest continuously-played rivalry game in the area.  Years ago, it was the last regular season game for each team, and played in the Garden to large and vocal crowds. Most years, one team or both would be striving for post-season, and the game was considered a showcase for NIT or even NCAA selectors. And there was booze, pranks and lots of fun.

Conference schedules no longer permit that kind of scheduling, but I agree it would work well as a Thanksgiving tradition.  Friday or Saturday night would be preferable, but both schools should work to make it a Thanksgiving tradition, if we can't use it as the season capstone.
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« Reply #172 on: November 27, 2017, 09:24:05 pm »

Burly Bunting a pleasant surprise down low.  JN saw what Jaspers did not have in the front court and turned him loose.  Great use of the basket itself to keep defenders away.  I had Smooth Will and Raut contributing big time and in this rare instance I was correct. 

Manhattan had an unorthodox approach with their passing.  Three options apparently in this order:1. throw  it to us 2. throw it to no one 3. throw it to a teammate.  Our D had something to do with this but certainly NOT everything!

Please see Raut in person-he can shoot- he will shoot.  JN obviously enamored of him as witnessed by his being on the floor almost constantly.

Met a guy entering the RHG.  When I inquired about his allegiance, he stated his neutrality and interest in just seeing a good college basketball game.  He just relocated here from Illinois.  Nice!  Spread the word!
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« Reply #173 on: November 28, 2017, 10:45:43 am »

Agree. And Fordham and Manhattan have honored the tradition. It has to be the longest continuously-played rivalry game in the area.  Years ago, it was the last regular season game for each team, and played in the Garden to large and vocal crowds. Most years, one team or both would be striving for post-season, and the game was considered a showcase for NIT or even NCAA selectors. And there was booze, pranks and lots of fun.

Conference schedules no longer permit that kind of scheduling, but I agree it would work well as a Thanksgiving tradition.  Friday or Saturday night would be preferable, but both schools should work to make it a Thanksgiving tradition, if we can't use it as the season capstone.

I was thinking Saturday so as not to compete with Thanksgiving Thursday and "Black Friday".  I was thinking the night so as to allow everyone to have their day free and have the big evening event to look forward to, and as an excuse to stop shopping for a while.

The nice thing about having a fixed scheduling rule is you can use it to really plan things out with certainty years in advance.  Facility rentals, publicity events, travel packages, alumni events, etc.  Our athletics program generally could greatly benefit from a lot more advance and professional planning.

I would personally love to see the game stay in the Bronx for added authenticity, but I could totally get behind making a Saturday 7pm Fordham-Manhattan game be the second part of an MSG doubleheader, or even form a whole weekend tournament around it.
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« Reply #174 on: November 28, 2017, 10:51:30 am »

If healthy, Bunting should start every single game from here on out. No questions asked. The shot clock violations were difficult to watch. I'm glad we beat Manhattan, and am taking it one game at a time, but as of now we are in big trouble come A-10 play. Big.

He has doen nothing but produce when he has played the last few years. He should get a real shot if he stays healthy.
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« Reply #175 on: November 28, 2017, 11:05:31 am »

Saturday evening would be good, although maybe not many students, who don't go anyway.

I was driving back from the 'burbs Saturday afternoon and traffic wasn't too bad.  I took the train with mini-me to the Sunday game so as not to brave the Sunday traffic (or lose my precious Manhattan street parking spot).  Easy subway and metro north ride for us.  Left at 1:00 and made it there before 2 (ticket line a bit of  fiasco so missed a few minutes).  Stayed until the end, back on metro north, home before 5.

I'd definitely make it a Thanksgiving ritual.
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« Reply #176 on: November 28, 2017, 11:10:07 am »

He has doen nothing but produce when he has played the last few years. He should get a real shot if he stays healthy.

That's a big if unfortunately. He is also more Ryan Rhoomes than Prokop Slanina, so not exactly the ideal fit for the system being run. I do think it works to balance the floor though, and we should be looking into more players of that type.
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« Reply #177 on: November 28, 2017, 11:29:00 am »

Saturday evening would be good, although maybe not many students, who don't go anyway.

I was driving back from the 'burbs Saturday afternoon and traffic wasn't too bad.  I took the train with mini-me to the Sunday game so as not to brave the Sunday traffic (or lose my precious Manhattan street parking spot).  Easy subway and metro north ride for us.  Left at 1:00 and made it there before 2 (ticket line a bit of  fiasco so missed a few minutes).  Stayed until the end, back on metro north, home before 5.

I'd definitely make it a Thanksgiving ritual.

Sunday could work too as a way of hopefully maximizing student attendance.  As long as it is absolutely fixed for a particular day and time going forward I'm okay with either Sat or Sun.

Your point about catching a Metro North is a perfect use case.  Imagine if this game were to be a big thing.  With enough advance planning it could be possible for Fordham to team up with MTA to offer a special train to the game.  Fans could for example pick up general seating tix at Grand Central or on the train, and there could even be some catering on board so fans could get some decent snacks and not be starving when they get there.  Great networking opportunities for people travelling on the train, and Fordham would look like they are doing something genuinely helpful for their fans.

There could also be a hotel and restaurant package offered for those wanting to stay at the area hotels for the night, complete with buses to the games.

Obviously the devil would be in the details, and some of those ideas may or may not be viable, but the idea is with enough time you have more opportunities to really be creative and get the word out.
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« Reply #178 on: November 28, 2017, 06:25:36 pm »

Great ideas DR. Unfortunately, this is beyond Roach's imagination
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« Reply #179 on: November 28, 2017, 06:56:52 pm »

That's a big if unfortunately. He is also more Ryan Rhoomes than Prokop Slanina, so not exactly the ideal fit for the system being run. I do think it works to balance the floor though, and we should be looking into more players of that type.

Watching Bunting on Sunday reminded me of Rhoomes.  Bunting aggressively went after rebounds and he crossed under the rim on a number of his baskets in order to use it for protection.  Those are moves that Rhoomes displayed as a senior, so I am guessing one of the coaches is working with Bunting down low.

On another note, I am surprised no one has commented on the technical foul assessed against Fordham at 6:58 in the first half.  During a time out, Bunting checking in at the scorer's table.  When they came back on the floor, Fordham picked up Manhattan in a full court press.  The ball got to half court before the refs whistled Fordham for having six (6) players on the press.  It was blatant and something I have not seen at the college level.  Some assistant coach was to blame for not making sure Evans came out when Bunting went back into the game.  Luckily, Williams on Manhattan made only 1 of 2 FTs and it did not impact the outcome of the game.
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