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Fordham vs E.Tenn St. - Pre-Game/In-Game 11/29/17, 7pm at RHG


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« Reply #180 on: November 30, 2017, 12:28:26 pm »

Also shouldn't we give ETSU some credit. They played a good game. They shot the ball very well. Their guards did not turn it over and they hit FTs. AS Rich said this is Kenpom top 130 team and they played well. SOmetimes that happens.
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« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2017, 12:37:46 pm »

Also shouldn't we give ETSU some credit. They played a good game. They shot the ball very well. Their guards did not turn it over and they hit FTs. AS Rich said this is Kenpom top 130 team and they played well. SOmetimes that happens.

Forbes was very smart by going small in the second half, this was a big factor in their limiting turnovers.  Hodges was their "big" at 6' 6" and he and 6' 4" Bradford outworked everyone in white on the glass.  We've had games this year with a bigger rebounding deficit than -14, but considering we actually got outshot by 3 attempts and the teams combined to shoot 55%, this IMO was our worst rebounding performance of the season.
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« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2017, 12:41:00 pm »

Forbes was very smart by going small in the second half, this was a big factor in their limiting turnovers.  Hodges was their "big" at 6' 6" and he and 6' 4" Bradford outworked everyone in white on the glass.  We've had games this year with a bigger rebounding deficit than -14, but considering we actually got outshot by 3 attempts and the teams combined to shoot 55%, this IMO was our worst rebounding performance of the season.

Yes agreed. Many big possessions on defense we failed to get the rebound. Those were killer.
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« Reply #183 on: November 30, 2017, 01:27:09 pm »

Quite a chess match-both coaches working hard.  JN is the type who HATES to lose more then he loves to win.  A good thing.  A lot of things, as has been covered here, go into a close loss like this one.  Quickness....you know it when you see it, and with the exception of one ponderous big, ETS has it in abundance.  The 2 TOs we burned were costly-one to save a possession and the other when we couldn't inbound the ball.  We got zero points following those TOs and that obviously hurt.   ETS preserved theirs and they were thus available to help them finish the game.

JN did nice job with the offense-defense thing with Slanina after his 2 quick first half fouls.  He was able to squeeze 6 points out of this without S picking up that third foul in the first half.  Is there a way we can clone Will T?

Other negative factors:
1. I jinxed Mr. Raut
2. Where is the RAM Mascot?! 
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« Reply #184 on: November 30, 2017, 01:48:51 pm »

Very disappointed after attending last nightís game.  Besides losing, these are the things that really got to me:

1)   Bunting out for the year.
2)   Tavares taking a 2 with 4.9 seconds left.  ETSU did exactly the right thing and fouled so that we were down over 3 points after their free throws with only 3 seconds left.  The only play IMO is the three pointer there.
3)   Havsa in at the end when we needed a 3 and Raut on the bench.  Havsa goes east west instead of north south anyway, so I would have preferred JC at the point and Raut in the game.
4)   Our interior defense in the second half.  ETSU guards easily penetrated our zone using their athletic ability to get beyond the free throw line and just take an uncontested jump shot over our guys with no one challenging.
5)   Chartounyís doesnít even look for his shot anymore and made a horrible pass too short at the end which was intercepted.

But the biggest problem of all I have is with the recruiting.  I donít know much about the dynamics of getting guys in here, but we desperately needed to recruit a big player and we didnít.  Our front court was just too thin and now we are one injury away from not having any big men.  The game might have changed but you still canít play effectively without someone to block up the middle and/or get you some plays inside.

One last thing, I estimated there were about 400 to 600 people there tops.
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« Reply #185 on: November 30, 2017, 03:08:58 pm »

You can plan better. You do not run the risk of 2 players transferring very late for a 5th year and then you are really caught with your pants down. You can fill the spot in the early period. 5th year is too liberal. We need to tighten up those decisions. Balance whats best for the player with the program. In my opinion, we dont owe a player anything more than 4 years on a schollie. If he only plays 3, so be it. These late transfers for a 5th year can really kill you, sort of like whats happening this year.

Why not just give him the redshirt and plan that he is leaving? The school does have to apply for the redshirt, but I am confident the kid will win some appeal and get the redshirt anyway. Give them a redshirt and they possibly leave; deny the redshirt and they definitely leave, either on appeal or b/c eligibility is exhausted.
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« Reply #186 on: November 30, 2017, 03:14:34 pm »

Very disappointed after attending last night’s game.  Besides losing, these are the things that really got to me:

1)   Bunting out for the year.
2)   Tavares taking a 2 with 4.9 seconds left.  ETSU did exactly the right thing and fouled so that we were down over 3 points after their free throws with only 3 seconds left.  The only play IMO is the three pointer there.
3)   Havsa in at the end when we needed a 3 and Raut on the bench.  Havsa goes east west instead of north south anyway, so I would have preferred JC at the point and Raut in the game.
4)   Our interior defense in the second half.  ETSU guards easily penetrated our zone using their athletic ability to get beyond the free throw line and just take an uncontested jump shot over our guys with no one challenging.
5)   Chartouny’s doesn’t even look for his shot anymore and made a horrible pass too short at the end which was intercepted.

But the biggest problem of all I have is with the recruiting.  I don’t know much about the dynamics of getting guys in here, but we desperately needed to recruit a big player and we didn’t.  Our front court was just too thin and now we are one injury away from not having any big men.  The game might have changed but you still can’t play effectively without someone to block up the middle and/or get you some plays inside.

One last thing, I estimated there were about 400 to 600 people there tops.


I think your recollection of how much time was left when Tavares took that 2 might be off. I think it was 7 seconds and he got fouled. Check the play-by-play, http://www.fordhamsports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7674&path=mbball#play-by-play. I am not seeing any missed 2's late and I think the 2 when he got fouled was the right move with 7 seconds left b/c of the reasons we covered earlier.
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« Reply #187 on: November 30, 2017, 03:15:26 pm »

Why not just give him the redshirt and plan that he is leaving? The school does have to apply for the redshirt, but I am confident the kid will win some appeal and get the redshirt anyway. Give them a redshirt and they possibly leave; deny the redshirt and they definitely leave, either on appeal or b/c eligibility is exhausted.

Because they can hold you up and leave you high and dry late in the process. Kid has a good year and tells you he wants to come back......you think its pretty solid that he will.....but these guys change their minds ......all of a sudden its June and you think a guy is coming back and he says, nah, I'm going to do my 5th year elsewhere....to me that is the problem, you have zero guarantee that a kid will honor that one way verbal committment and if he doesnt, its too late...so why bother.....let the kid go apply for a 5th year....we are 0-3 with these situations.....
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« Reply #188 on: November 30, 2017, 03:26:32 pm »

I think your recollection of how much time was left when Tavares took that 2 might be off. I think it was 7 seconds and he got fouled. Check the play-by-play, http://www.fordhamsports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7674&path=mbball#play-by-play. I am not seeing any missed 2's late and I think the 2 when he got fouled was the right move with 7 seconds left b/c of the reasons we covered earlier.

I dont believe that 2 was un-contested. Hard to argue given who was in the game.....at first i scratched my head, but your 3 point bomber was on the bench....
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« Reply #189 on: November 30, 2017, 03:32:31 pm »

Because they can hold you up and leave you high and dry late in the process. Kid has a good year and tells you he wants to come back......you think its pretty solid that he will.....but these guys change their minds ......all of a sudden its June and you think a guy is coming back and he says, nah, I'm going to do my 5th year elsewhere....to me that is the problem, you have zero guarantee that a kid will honor that one way verbal committment and if he doesnt, its too late...so why bother.....let the kid go apply for a 5th year....we are 0-3 with these situations.....

So then just give him the redshirt, but tell him he has to use his 5th year elsewhere. Denying it just looks bad and if you are simply not going to plan to bring him back (which is the same as not applying for it) then no harm, no foul.
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« Reply #190 on: November 30, 2017, 03:32:51 pm »

I dont believe that 2 was un-contested. Hard to argue given who was in the game.....at first i scratched my head, but your 3 point bomber was on the bench....

I doubt it was uncontested; he got fouled.
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« Reply #191 on: November 30, 2017, 03:34:59 pm »

I doubt it was uncontested; he got fouled.

I know it was posted earler that an uncontested 2 was the way to go in this situation....or maybe i read it wrong.....more green tea
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« Reply #192 on: November 30, 2017, 03:41:05 pm »

I know it was posted earler that an uncontested 2 was the way to go in this situation....or maybe i read it wrong.....more green tea

LOL. Green tea!

I think what was said earlier was that you take what the defense gives you. If the defense denies the 3, you go inside and try to get an easy 2 and/or draw contact. He drew contact and got 2 points out of it.
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« Reply #193 on: November 30, 2017, 03:43:58 pm »

When Christian S. left it was thought he was likely replaceable by one of our existing bigs; turns out we could've used him this depleted roster season. I haven't heard any exploration here of whether we can get a commitment from an incoming freshman stipulating that if FU gives them the opportunity through summer classes etc. to get enough credits to graduate after 3 years, they commit to staying at Fordham for their final year of eligibility and not transfer.  Their are apparently rules that players can't transfer to other A-10 teams; this rule would take it another step further. OK! I know someone will bring up the 13th Amendment and why you can't have involuntary servitude.  But we're making commitments and giving opportunities to a player to rob us of senior leadership and experience and there should be a way to prevent that; other than getting a new, first class on campus arena that no player would want to leave.
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« Reply #194 on: November 30, 2017, 03:50:37 pm »

When Christian S. left it was thought he was likely replaceable by one of our existing bigs; turns out we could've used him this depleted roster season. I haven't heard any exploration here of whether we can get a commitment from an incoming freshman stipulating that if FU gives them the opportunity through summer classes etc. to get enough credits to graduate after 3 years, they commit to staying at Fordham for their final year of eligibility and not transfer.  Their are apparently rules that players can't transfer to other A-10 teams; this rule would take it another step further. OK! I know someone will bring up the 13th Amendment and why you can't have involuntary servitude.  But we're making commitments and giving opportunities to a player to rob us of senior leadership and experience and there should be a way to prevent that; other than getting a new, first class on campus arena that no player would want to leave.

Two thoughts:
1. Not sure if the NCAA allows for added contracts on top of the typical scholarship agreement. If they do, that's one way to go.
2. If you are allowed to block a grad transfer, as you can other transfers, that's the easiest way to go.

I like the first option better, as it is the player's choice.
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« Reply #195 on: November 30, 2017, 06:20:45 pm »

I think your recollection of how much time was left when Tavares took that 2 might be off. I think it was 7 seconds and he got fouled. Check the play-by-play, http://www.fordhamsports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7674&path=mbball#play-by-play. I am not seeing any missed 2's late and I think the 2 when he got fouled was the right move with 7 seconds left b/c of the reasons we covered earlier.

I guess there were 7 seconds left, but I think my point still holds.  With the 2 pointer, you are 1 point down with 7 seconds left and unless you're a good team like maybe Duke or Kansas, it's not enough time if we foul again to get the ball back.  Our best chance there was to take a 3 pointer and 7 seconds is enough time to get set to take a shot, even if the defense is defending it at that point.  He can always take a step back and launch one.
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« Reply #196 on: November 30, 2017, 06:28:53 pm »

LOL. Green tea!

I think what was said earlier was that you take what the defense gives you. If the defense denies the 3, you go inside and try to get an easy 2 and/or draw contact. He drew contact and got 2 points out of it.

I didn't see that great a defense against the 3 that maybe you saw on that play by Tavares.  It just looked to me like he decided to drive to the basket which certainly took more time that shooting a 3.
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« Reply #197 on: November 30, 2017, 06:30:48 pm »

Final thought right now:  Is Chris Downing any practical and useful option for some time up front with our depleted roster?
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« Reply #198 on: November 30, 2017, 07:45:10 pm »

I guess there were 7 seconds left, but I think my point still holds.  With the 2 pointer, you are 1 point down with 7 seconds left and unless you're a good team like maybe Duke or Kansas, it's not enough time if we foul again to get the ball back.  Our best chance there was to take a 3 pointer and 7 seconds is enough time to get set to take a shot, even if the defense is defending it at that point.  He can always take a step back and launch one.

We fouled after Tavares’ 2 made free throws with 5 seconds left. Still plenty of time.
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« Reply #199 on: November 30, 2017, 08:09:00 pm »

Chartounyís foul with 44 seconds left, with 17 secs left on the shot clock, 35 feet from the basket, when it was a 1 possession game (71-68) was by far the dumbest play during our attempted comeback.  Tavares going for 2 with 7 secs left was the play he had, ETSU had extended their D so he wouldíve had to launch one from 30 to even get it off.
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« Reply #200 on: November 30, 2017, 08:37:10 pm »

Final thought right now:  Is Chris Downing any practical and useful option for some time up front with our depleted roster?

Why would a 6-8 Downing be a better option then the 6-7 Pekarek and 6-7 Raut. Those guys are only 1 inch shorter than Bunting and are the same height as Sengfelder. Those are the guys we need to step up and taje those minutes.

Taveres, Hicks, JC, Evans, and Havsa will rotate at the other 3 spots.
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« Reply #201 on: November 30, 2017, 09:33:40 pm »

JC, Pekarek and Havsa are (some or all) gonna come around at some point or points - I honestly believe that bros. We've seen what they can do. What worries me more is the beef and the depth, as in we don't have any of either.

Bunting comes in and provides the (painfully obvious, much needed) beef, then gets hurt and is gone for the season. Go figure. Really, totally sucks.
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« Reply #202 on: November 30, 2017, 10:05:14 pm »

JC, Pekarek and Havsa are (some or all) gonna come around at some point or points - I honestly believe that bros. We've seen what they can do. What worries me more is the beef and the depth, as in we don't have any of either.

Bunting comes in and provides the (painfully obvious, much needed) beef, then gets hurt and is gone for the season. Go figure. Really, totally sucks.

I agree with you on JC, Havsa and Pekarek. Hard to say why, but just feel it.

As for Bunting, he is not gone b/c he got hurt against Manhattan. The surgery was planned. Seems odd that he would play, yet is having planned season ending surgery, but that is the way it went down. I guess they figured playing could not do that much more damage and with Slanina out, they really needed him to play.
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« Reply #203 on: November 30, 2017, 11:36:21 pm »

We fouled after Tavaresí 2 made free throws with 5 seconds left. Still plenty of time.

Really??? Shocked
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« Reply #204 on: December 01, 2017, 12:14:36 am »

Really??? Shocked

Yes. You'd think that someone who has watched basketball as long as you have would know that.
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« Reply #205 on: December 01, 2017, 05:58:56 am »

Here is a list of A-10 players 6'7" or taller averaging 10 ppg or more:

Rhode Island  Berry 6'8" 10.2 ppg
Bonnies Griffin 6'7" 10.8 ppg
Davidson Aldridge 6'7" 22 ppg (he shoots a lot from 3, but also good from 2).
G. Mason Mar 6'7" 15 ppg
La Salle Johnson 6'7" 22.1 ppg
Saint Joe's Funk 6'9" 14.9 ppg (shoots 6.4 3s per game, 3.9 2s).
VCU Tillman 6'7" 13.7 ppg
Dayton Cunningham 6'7" 14.3 ppg
Duquesne. N/A
Saint Louis Johnson 6'7" 10.2
GW Watanabe 6'8" 14.7 ppg, Steeves 6'8" 10 ppg
Mass Holloway 6'10" 10.7 ppg
Richmond Golden 6'9" 15.7  
Oh, Fordham, Slanina 6'10" 11.4 ppg.  Raut just misses at 6'7" 9.7 ppg.

Not a murderers row of giants.  Only 5 teams have anyone averaging double digits who is taller than even Raut or Pekarek.  More athletic guys of course.

Sure, Slanina has to play matador a bit more.  Our guards need to stay in front and deny penetration better than last night.  If we have to go small, more steals.  

Not trying to be pollyanna here.  We have issues.  But at least the A-10 is more a guard and wing league.


And the flip side to  this argument is we had a better chance of winning with our bigs. We cant shoot worth a lick, so if the games all come down to small ball guards v guards and bombing 3 pointers back and forth, we have a worse chance of winning. Right now our leader, PG is shooting 30% overall and 10% from 3.  At least Ohams, Slanina, Bunting gave us a plan B in the event that the shooting woes continue. Not saying they would have capitalized, but at least the mismatches would have provided an opportunity.

We shall see how it plays out.  Neubauer's teams are tough to figure, just when you think they are down and out they seem to rally. But this is going to be a Herculean task.
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« Reply #206 on: December 01, 2017, 06:07:24 am »

I guess there were 7 seconds left, but I think my point still holds.  With the 2 pointer, you are 1 point down with 7 seconds left and unless you're a good team like maybe Duke or Kansas, it's not enough time if we foul again to get the ball back.  Our best chance there was to take a 3 pointer and 7 seconds is enough time to get set to take a shot, even if the defense is defending it at that point.  He can always take a step back and launch one.

The irony of course is that Neubauer is preaching raining 3's as the pro forma offense. Yet in the one crucial situation where we needed a 3, that strategy was abandoned.
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« Reply #207 on: December 01, 2017, 12:03:20 pm »

And the flip side to  this argument is we had a better chance of winning with our bigs. We cant shoot worth a lick, so if the games all come down to small ball guards v guards and bombing 3 pointers back and forth, we have a worse chance of winning. Right now our leader, PG is shooting 30% overall and 10% from 3.  At least Ohams, Slanina, Bunting gave us a plan B in the event that the shooting woes continue. Not saying they would have capitalized, but at least the mismatches would have provided an opportunity.

We shall see how it plays out.  Neubauer's teams are tough to figure, just when you think they are down and out they seem to rally. But this is going to be a Herculean task.


Flip it again and they have to worry about dealing with Slanina.  .635 eFG%, 4th in A-10, PER 6th (OK, Tavares is 18th in A-10 in that metric, which shows how imperfect these stats are, Will being a very high usage player, i.e., volume guy who is penalized for taking harder shots), Offensive rating 3rd, defensive rating 4th (ok, likely a function of team D), block % 7th, he is FIRST in win shares per 40 minutes in the A-10 (Hicks is 10th).  Lowest turnover % in the A-10.  7th in +/-.

It's  a small sample still.  And he is still averaging 6 fouls per 40 (albeit slightly under 6.5 last year).  They WILL all try to foul him out.  Or injure him. But he is turning into one of the better players in the league, so far. It is unfortunate we don't have depth. What we need is everybody else to step up in support of Tavares, Hicks and Slanina. Who so far have been really good. JC should bounce back, and he leads A-10 in defensive win shares.  Evans is actually in top 20 in D rating.
We are really going stars and scrubs.  The scrubs need to be much better.   
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« Reply #208 on: December 01, 2017, 12:19:27 pm »

We are really going stars and scrubs.  The scrubs need to be much better.   

Not exactly something I think of often, but we have had a carousel of...less than desirable walk-ons. Iím thinking back to my years with the program, and the years following - very low level of ability from walk-ons. And it is important, it changes practice dynamic. I donít want to name names, but I can think of 4-5 walk-ons that barely made an impact on their own HS teams. Most A10 programs have a few options that can give you some size in practice and/or score it a bit - 20ppg HS/multi-sport athletic kids.

And we traditionally have 2-3 players on scholarship that are closer to walk-on caliber. Being honest.


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« Reply #209 on: December 01, 2017, 01:14:37 pm »

Not exactly something I think of often, but we have had a carousel of...less than desirable walk-ons. Iím thinking back to my years with the program, and the years following - very low level of ability from walk-ons. And it is important, it changes practice dynamic. I donít want to name names, but I can think of 4-5 walk-ons that barely made an impact on their own HS teams. Most A10 programs have a few options that can give you some size in practice and/or score it a bit - 20ppg HS/multi-sport athletic kids.

And we traditionally have 2-3 players on scholarship that are closer to walk-on caliber. Being honest.




We can't complain about the quality of our walk-ons when we have less than desirable A-10 starters. Someone needs to step up big time. Have my eye on Tavares for this.
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