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UMaine @ Fordham Pregame/In-Game 12/2/17 2PM


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« Reply #180 on: December 03, 2017, 10:17:08 am »

OK, then this team is being punished for cumulative sins, since the last few years have been, if not rousing success, better than the several years which preceded them. 

In the spirit of counting some blessings this holiday season, Havsa scored his first 2 points of the year last night, on a nice drive, with one no-look pass to the corner for a JC 3.  JC got out of his slump late in the game by attacking the basket, and went 6-11 in the 2nd half.  Two and-one three point plays the old-fashioned way, and a steal, to overcome a 5 point deficit with 2 minutes left.

Hicks, Evans and Havsa went 69 minutes with 4 assists and 0 turnovers.  Perris with 7 points and made some big FTs. Taking care of the ball was a problem last year and one of the things coach emphasized for this year.  Baby steps.  Pekarek was active on D with a block and 2 boards.  Slanina 15 points and only 2 fouls.  Tavares 15 points 3 steals and 7 boards.    JC fills up the stat sheet.  21 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 4 steals. 

The 2 point FG % keeps creeping up.  17-30 last night.  At .525 on the year actually in the upper half of college basketball at 135th out of 351 teams.  Our opponents have made .520.  Our opponents are also under 30% from 3. 

OK, Maine stinks.  Wasn't a good game.  We actually fell in Kenpom several spots.  But a win.  It could have been worse.

OK, Harvard gave Kentucky a game.  So did ETSU.  Let's start a win streak. 

Come on, 7 games in and we're using a scholarship player scoring his first basket all year as a plus side? Definition of insanity.
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« Reply #181 on: December 03, 2017, 10:21:27 am »

I wouldn 't say that the team is being "punished"  per se.  We had a pretty aggressive fan base 20 -25 years ago  but that fan base was never replenished. It has dwindled significantly. I have heard SJU fans say the same thing for years..

The product has not been very good, and winning will of course bring a few more fans,  but I think its not just the product that has lead to this.  A lot of more recent alums and current students simply don't care about basketball, period.  So perhaps, that is the result of losing for the past 20 years, very possible, but who knows. Maybe just a change in interests. Things change.
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« Reply #182 on: December 03, 2017, 11:07:00 am »

Come on, 7 games in and we're using a scholarship player scoring his first basket all year as a plus side? Definition of insanity.

Would you rather he remain scoreless?  Good lord, that was just a kind of thanks for small favors. Overall the slight positive was the guards didn't turn it over.  I was happy Havsa was a bit more aggressive, and especially JC. 
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« Reply #183 on: December 03, 2017, 11:08:43 am »

I wouldn 't say that the team is being "punished"  per se.  We had a pretty aggressive fan base 20 -25 years ago  but that fan base was never replenished. It has dwindled significantly. I have heard SJU fans say the same thing for years..

The product has not been very good, and winning will of course bring a few more fans,  but I think its not just the product that has lead to this.  A lot of more recent alums and current students simply don't care about basketball, period.  So perhaps, that is the result of losing for the past 20 years, very possible, but who knows. Maybe just a change in interests. Things change.

I agree. Over time if you aren't a good team fewer people care, and you attract different students with different interests.
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« Reply #184 on: December 03, 2017, 11:43:48 am »

Different interests and even if they are interested in sports, there are a lot more options these days.

When I was at Fordham we did not have cable, so our options for sports were what was on network TV or head to a bar. At 1 PM on a Saturday, having been at the bar less than 12 hour prior, the better option was brunch and then hoops. Weekday games worked sort of the same, dinner and then hoops. Not everyone of course, but that is what a lot of us did.

I think the plethora of options might have changed that for a few, especially if the team struggles the way it has overall the last 20+ years.

At first I thought it would be interesting to see how attendance changed after cable came to campus, but that timing also coincides with the slide basketball has gone through the last 25 years.
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« Reply #185 on: December 03, 2017, 11:54:51 am »

I was at the game. Pretty sad. Practically had my own section. I kept thinking "How do you show a recruit this scene and expect them to come to Fordham?"

I'm at a loss for words about this program.

Honestly, I think this is a positive. The program needs to hit complete rock bottom before anything truly constructive--arena, conference change, downgrade to DIII--takes place. You see similar things happening with the NFL, social media and the U.S. political system in general--people are voting with their feet. They're walking away. You can make people do a lot of things, but you can't make them pay attention...
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« Reply #186 on: December 03, 2017, 11:55:15 am »

Another thing I remember reading from an interview with Ali Ton.  For a point guard (and with position less basketball, anyone), the particular stats aren't the issue.  You grade them by won-loss record.  Which I guess I often lose sight of. And is likely an overstatement but the ultimate goal is to win. Play well. But even if not, win.

Chartouny seemed like he decided not lose.  The best thing about yesterday aside from winning is Chartouny stepped up.  Maybe that gets him going. You want to start hitting jumpers? Start with some layups.

And of course Ali Ton, like Neubauer and a lot of coaches, was a non-scoring point guard Kinda like how no hit catchers like Girardi or Scioscia become managers.
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« Reply #187 on: December 03, 2017, 12:00:37 pm »

Different interests and even if they are interested in sports, there are a lot more options these days.

When I was at Fordham we did not have cable, so our options for sports were what was on network TV or head to a bar. At 1 PM on a Saturday, having been at the bar less than 12 hour prior, the better option was brunch and then hoops. Weekday games worked sort of the same, dinner and then hoops. Not everyone of course, but that is what a lot of us did.

I think the plethora of options might have changed that for a few, especially if the team struggles the way it has overall the last 20+ years.

At first I thought it would be interesting to see how attendance changed after cable came to campus, but that timing also coincides with the slide basketball has gone through the last 25 years.


When I watch major-conference basketball games on TV, there sure doesn't seem to be a lack of student interest at those schools. LOTS of college-age kids still love going to college basketball games. They just don't like going to THESE college basketball games.
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« Reply #188 on: December 03, 2017, 12:03:25 pm »

Another thing I remember reading from an interview with Ali Ton.  For a point guard (and with position less basketball, anyone), the particular stats aren't the issue.  You grade them by won-loss record.  Which I guess I often lose sight of. And is likely an overstatement but the ultimate goal is to win. Play well. But even if not, win.

Chartouny seemed like he decided not lose.  The best thing about yesterday aside from winning is Chartouny stepped up.  Maybe that gets him going. You want to start hitting jumpers? Start with some layups.

Sometimes a win like last night which looks on paper to be a disappointment turns into a positive close game down 5 we could have packed it in Chartouny who some claim does not have his heart in this season willed us to a win.  Get the Harvard game at home and we can get on a little run.  Basketball is a long season we are not even at the quarter mark yet. 
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« Reply #189 on: December 03, 2017, 12:03:36 pm »

Honestly, I think this is a positive. The program needs to hit complete rock bottom before anything truly constructive--arena, conference change, downgrade to DIII--takes place. You see similar things happening with the NFL, social media and the U.S. political system in general--people are voting with their feet. They're walking away. You can make people do a lot of things, but you can't make them pay attention...
I thought we hit rock bottom several times over the last 20 years.  Tongue
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« Reply #190 on: December 03, 2017, 12:05:25 pm »

OK, then this team is being punished for cumulative sins, since the last few years have been, if not rousing success, better than the several years which preceded them. 

In the spirit of counting some blessings this holiday season, Havsa scored his first 2 points of the year last night, on a nice drive, with one no-look pass to the corner for a JC 3.  JC got out of his slump late in the game by attacking the basket, and went 6-11 in the 2nd half.  Two and-one three point plays the old-fashioned way, and a steal, to overcome a 5 point deficit with 2 minutes left.

Hicks, Evans and Havsa went 69 minutes with 4 assists and 0 turnovers.  Perris with 7 points and made some big FTs. Taking care of the ball was a problem last year and one of the things coach emphasized for this year.  Baby steps.  Pekarek was active on D with a block and 2 boards.  Slanina 15 points and only 2 fouls.  Tavares 15 points 3 steals and 7 boards.    JC fills up the stat sheet.  21 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists and 4 steals. 

The 2 point FG % keeps creeping up.  17-30 last night.  At .525 on the year actually in the upper half of college basketball at 135th out of 351 teams.  Our opponents have made .520.  Our opponents are also under 30% from 3. 

OK, Maine stinks.  Wasn't a good game.  We actually fell in Kenpom several spots.  But a win.  It could have been worse.

OK, Harvard gave Kentucky a game.  So did ETSU.  Let's start a win streak. 

Good stuff about the game. 
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« Reply #191 on: December 03, 2017, 12:06:56 pm »

Sometimes a win like last night which looks on paper to be a disappointment turns into a positive close game down 5 we could have packed it in Chartouny who some claim does not have his heart in this season willed us to a win.  Get the Harvard game at home and we can get on a little run.  Basketball is a long season we are not even at the quarter mark yet. 
You have a much more positive take on this than I do.  I do hope you are right.
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« Reply #192 on: December 03, 2017, 12:07:06 pm »

I thought we hit rock bottom several times over the last 20 years.  Tongue

Apparently not!  Shocked
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« Reply #193 on: December 03, 2017, 12:12:51 pm »

Another thing I remember reading from an interview with Ali Ton.  For a point guard (and with position less basketball, anyone), the particular stats aren't the issue.  You grade them by won-loss record.  Which I guess I often lose sight of. And is likely an overstatement but the ultimate goal is to win. Play well. But even if not, win.

Chartouny seemed like he decided not lose.  The best thing about yesterday aside from winning is Chartouny stepped up.  Maybe that gets him going. You want to start hitting jumpers? Start with some layups.

Again you have lost me. what does hitting layups have to do with hitting jump shots. totally different. Some guys are just not good shooters.
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« Reply #194 on: December 03, 2017, 12:16:36 pm »

When I watch major-conference basketball games on TV, there sure doesn't seem to be a lack of student interest at those schools. LOTS of college-age kids still love going to college basketball games. They just don't like going to THESE college basketball games.

+1. Its a different game due to the talent level. And the gap widens further every year.
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« Reply #195 on: December 03, 2017, 12:20:47 pm »

True.  Joe has hit jumpers before.  Just one of those things people say.  If you warm up you start with some layups then work your way out. Like they used to say about hitting, hit a few to center to get out of a slump.  Likely all just bs, but pretty universally said by players and coaches.  It's not like I'm talking about a doofy power forward who should just take 2s.  Joe made 38.2% from 3 last year. Just hoping this gets him going.
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« Reply #196 on: December 03, 2017, 12:26:43 pm »

These are not fluid shots in the normal course of the game for any of these guys ( Hicks, Raut, Chartouny, Evans). So many of these shots are currently being taken after at least 15 seconds or more is deliberately run off the shot clock,  and they are being taken within the last 3-5 seconds and sometimes right at the shot clock buzzer, when they are flat footed, standing behind the arc.
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« Reply #197 on: December 03, 2017, 12:29:29 pm »

Honestly, I think this is a positive. The program needs to hit complete rock bottom before anything truly constructive--arena, conference change, downgrade to DIII--takes place. You see similar things happening with the NFL, social media and the U.S. political system in general--people are voting with their feet. They're walking away. You can make people do a lot of things, but you can't make them pay attention...

this is just my opinion for food for thought and not intended to piss anyone off, but I would pursue one of two options and I'd be ok with either one:

1. Drop the entire athletic program to Division III; or
2. Drop football and some other sports and go all in on basketball


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« Reply #198 on: December 03, 2017, 12:35:24 pm »

this is just my opinion for food for thought and not intended to piss anyone off, but I would pursue one of two options and I'd be ok with either one:

1. Drop the entire athletic program to Division III; or
2. Drop football and some other sports and go all in on basketball

You do realize that this will almost certainly start a flame war, despite your protestations. I speak as someone who has been badly burned in the past. Do you really want to go there?
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« Reply #199 on: December 03, 2017, 12:47:36 pm »

this is just my opinion for food for thought and not intended to piss anyone off, but I would pursue one of two options and I'd be ok with either one:

1. Drop the entire athletic program to Division III; or
2. Drop football and some other sports and go all in on basketball


Never thought I would say this but I agree. Given a choice between 1 and 2, I would pick 2.

 
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« Reply #200 on: December 03, 2017, 12:52:39 pm »

Imagine if we actually lost yesterday’s game.
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« Reply #201 on: December 03, 2017, 01:10:48 pm »

Imagine if we actually lost yesterday’s game.

Agreed.
You have a much more positive take on this than I do.  I do hope you are right.

7 games into the season I spend money on the program so of course I am not going to throw in the towel.  Last year should have taught people a lesson.  This year will be tougher given injuries but the conference is not good that is reality.  Long season that may end up really long but far too early to bring out the same stuff they said last year.  Note I thought this was a bad performance overall but they got the win.  Sometimes these ugly wins let teams exhale a bit. So I take the win and move onto the next game it is more fun that way which last I checked is the point of college basketball.
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« Reply #202 on: December 03, 2017, 01:22:18 pm »

Apparently not!  Shocked
Vooter,
     Are you telling us it can get worse? I only hope 25 years of lousy basketball is rock bottom not 30 or 35 years. We are the Washington generals of college hoops but at least they play before packed houses.
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« Reply #203 on: December 03, 2017, 01:27:49 pm »

You do realize that this will almost certainly start a flame war, despite your protestations. I speak as someone who has been badly burned in the past. Do you really want to go there?

Not trying to go anywhere.  One person's opinion based on where I see FBS/FCS football, and where I see what basketball needs to do.  You may think the status quo is good, which is fine.  I personally don't anymore.  "Dispassionate portfolio management"...
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« Reply #204 on: December 03, 2017, 01:32:02 pm »

When I watch major-conference basketball games on TV, there sure doesn't seem to be a lack of student interest at those schools. LOTS of college-age kids still love going to college basketball games. They just don't like going to THESE college basketball games.

Fair point, but as many here have said, we seem to be attracting a different type of student. The school sells New York City very hard. Not saying they are going to plays and shows all the time, but they seem to have more diverse interests than the bulk of those I went to school with. I am sure interest would grow if we were better though.
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« Reply #205 on: December 03, 2017, 01:41:15 pm »

I wouldn 't say that the team is being "punished"  per se.  We had a pretty aggressive fan base 20 -25 years ago  but that fan base was never replenished. It has dwindled significantly. I have heard SJU fans say the same thing for years..

The product has not been very good, and winning will of course bring a few more fans,  but I think its not just the product that has lead to this.  A lot of more recent alums and current students simply don't care about basketball, period.  So perhaps, that is the result of losing for the past 20 years, very possible, but who knows. Maybe just a change in interests. Things change.

85,
    You are right, a generation of losing has cost us our fan base. I know some people who graduated in the last 10 years who played sports all their lives and they told me that them and their buddies wouldn't go to the games because they were a joke and we lost all the time. When we were there tv had only 7 stations and there was no internet, so we looked for things to do now we are competing with too many other options and a generation of losing records. There were many nights I would go to the game and then head over to clarkes and have a good time. Now, it's totally different. How many winning seasons do we have since 1993? That's your answer. I was at the ETSU game on Wednesday and a JV basketball game at mt Vernon on Friday. The high school game was more exciting, had at least as many people, if not more, as our game and was so much louder. We sure not the only show in town and fans have realized that. Not sure what the answer is except for winning.
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« Reply #206 on: December 03, 2017, 01:43:37 pm »

Not trying to go anywhere.  One person's opinion based on where I see FBS/FCS football, and where I see what basketball needs to do.  You may think the status quo is good, which is fine.  I personally don't anymore.  "Dispassionate portfolio management"...

I certainly do not think the status quo is good, and frankly John I don't think you can honestly come to that conclusion from reading my post. I am simply saying that we have gone down this road many times before, Lord knows I have been there, and the only thing that ever changes is the dates of the posts. I see no signs whatsoever that the administration is going to opt for either of your choices, so what is the point? You are not offering anything that hasn't been offered before. We are, most of us anyway, unhappy with the status quo, but significant changes, like the options you give in your post, are not going to occur any time soon, if they occur at all.
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« Reply #207 on: December 03, 2017, 02:23:49 pm »

this is just my opinion for food for thought and not intended to piss anyone off, but I would pursue one of two options and I'd be ok with either one:

1. Drop the entire athletic program to Division III; or
2. Drop football and some other sports and go all in on basketball



this why I stopped donating to Fordham (except for the Law School) several years ago.  The university doesn't know what it wants out of its athletic program.  It wastes money on large operating budgets and refuses to do anything re: capital improvements.  The joke about the replacement on the seats in the RHG and installing a new floor prove that.  Until the school decides to align our facilities with our level of play then there's no way I'm going to contribute anything to athletics or the undergrad programs.  It's just a waste of money than can be contributed elsewhere to more worth schools and charities.

I know a bunch of people on here will protest and say that if we go DIII or Patriot League that they are done and won't go to games anymore.  Take a look at the attendance.  Hardly anyone is attending now so what does it matter if 50 fewer people show up?
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« Reply #208 on: December 03, 2017, 02:51:21 pm »



I know a bunch of people on here will protest and say that if we go DIII or Patriot League that they are done and won't go to games anymore.  Take a look at the attendance.  Hardly anyone is attending now so what does it matter if 50 fewer people show up?

My only thought here is I don’t think PL in all sports is an option given the expenditures to maintain football at FCS level.  I’d go D3 all sports or A-10 with less sports and a commitment to a new hoop facility
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« Reply #209 on: December 03, 2017, 02:52:10 pm »

You do realize that this will almost certainly start a flame war, despite your protestations. I speak as someone who has been badly burned in the past. Do you really want to go there?

I definitely don't want to go there; I would just be happy if the administration and/or BOT would make SOME kind of major move, because this purgatory we're in sucks. My wife and I have been a couple since 1994 (married for 19 of those years), and she's a casual college basketball fan (in other words, she fills out a bracket in March). I don't know why I'm surprised that she looks at me kind of strangely when I talk about Fordham basketball--as far as she's concerned, I might as well be talking about Finnish college basketball...
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