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Harvard @ Fordham Pregame/In-game 12/6/17 7PM


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« Reply #150 on: December 07, 2017, 08:54:20 am »

This is a very good point. Quinny is a great situation for a coach on the rise. It could be argued that our situation is one of the worst for a coach trying to get to a Power 5 job.

True, so you sell what you can to get a top assistant. We can offer some pretty big $$.  I honestly think that you get a top assistant who has a year like Neubie did his first year, and that coach maybe goes 18-13 his second year with an NIT. He either gets a bigger gig in a big conference or a lateral with a school that has better facilities and comittment and he is on his way.  Clawson took a bit of a lateral to Richmond. It can be done. Penders went to Rhode Island first before getting to Texas. But you need the mindset that we are not a 10 year job, that the game is now transient, transfers in and out, 5th year guys, coaches in and out.
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« Reply #151 on: December 07, 2017, 08:57:02 am »

Up 6 with 1:24 left and we foul the three point shooter who happens to be their best free throw shooter.  Then get a quick 5 second call but still our fault because we canít inbound the effing ball.  Then we leave open a 52% three point shooter who up to that point shot was 1-5.  You canít make this up.

Slanina was exhausted end of first half when he bricked 3 shots in a row.  No sub.
Pekarek goes 1-6 from 3 unacceptable to let him shoot that much.
Perris Hicks was atrocious tonight we told you this would happen.
We had enough talent to win this game what we lacked was a good substitution pattern, red light for some of our guys, basketball IQ and guts down the stretch.

Up 6 with 1:24 left we had a 90%  of winning according to ESPN. 


Losing a 90%er is becoming a staple. The GW home loss, Mason A-10 game, Miami Ohio, and now this. The Neubauer era looks different if we win 3 of those 4.

The issues are there whether we held on or not. I still think we are more competitive than our previous coaching staffs. Remember those staffs lost these games as well usually by double digits. There are clearly issues but the fact that there is a shred of hope makes it even worse.
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« Reply #152 on: December 07, 2017, 09:06:01 am »

I think the flip side of the facilities issue is that even if we solved that, unless we were all-in on everything else (like Xavier) Fordham will most likely always be a stepping stone school, albeit one that is higher up the staircase.  We will experience more success and on a consistent basis, and we will still occasionally lose coaches and have to rebuild. The difference is that the rebuilding process will be easier.

Also known as "Being in the MAAC"...just sayin'...
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« Reply #153 on: December 07, 2017, 09:10:26 am »

Also known as "Being in the MAAC"...just sayin'...

Or another conference. Doesnt have to be the MAAC.
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« Reply #154 on: December 07, 2017, 09:14:22 am »

We had one left. Two were used after made baskets. I get that type of use, but at times it kills our momentum and obviously leaves us in need at the end. I know you can't take a timeout into the locker room, but I would prefer to enter the locker room with a timeout in my pocket and a victory.

I would not be shocked if the instructions before that now infamous inbound were to get the ball across court and call a timeout. That might have been in Evans' head and he was hesitant to use it, but he has to also know that the timeout is available there if needed.

At times it kills our momentum? Just not true. Every single time it kills our momentum. And every single time he does it we are very very limited with timeouts during crunch time. Mind baffling.
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« Reply #155 on: December 07, 2017, 09:15:43 am »

In fairness, the announcers have been on this all year, questioning this strategy.

Either way, if we had one, then Evans has to take it.
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« Reply #156 on: December 07, 2017, 09:21:16 am »

Losing a 90%er is becoming a staple. The GW home loss, Mason A-10 game, Miami Ohio, and now this. The Neubauer era looks different if we win 3 of those 4.

The issues are there whether we held on or not. I still think we are more competitive than our previous coaching staffs. Remember those staffs lost these games as well usually by double digits. There are clearly issues but the fact that there is a shred of hope makes it even worse.

Think about it: if we close out a game we are up 6 with 1.24 left there is no facilities or coaching discussion.  Not one word.  The narrative is we won ugly against a good team.  But we find a way to lose primarily because our most highly touted recruit sought after by schools in P5 and A-10 fouls a three point shooter and does not inbound the ball.  So here we are 3-5 should be 5-3.  Infuriating. 

At times it kills our momentum? Just not true. Every single time it kills our momentum. And every single time he does it we are very very limited with timeouts during crunch time. Mind baffling.

After one of the made shot timeouts we gave up a wide open drive to the basket.  This game was a disaster by Neubauer.  He can coach but this was a bad game by him. 
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« Reply #157 on: December 07, 2017, 09:26:00 am »

Think about it: if we close out a game we are up 6 with 1.24 left there is no facilities or coaching discussion.  Not one word.  The narrative is we won ugly against a good team.  But we find a way to lose primarily because our most highly touted recruit sought after by schools in P5 and A-10 fouls a three point shooter and does not inbound the ball.  So here we are 3-5 should be 5-3.  Infuriating. 

Stop making sense.

However, the .242 has to be addressed now.
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« Reply #158 on: December 07, 2017, 09:27:44 am »

Think about it: if we close out a game we are up 6 with 1.24 left there is no facilities or coaching discussion.  Not one word.  The narrative is we won ugly against a good team.  But we find a way to lose primarily because our most highly touted recruit sought after by schools in P5 and A-10 fouls a three point shooter and does not inbound the ball.  So here we are 3-5 should be 5-3.  Infuriating. 

True. Winning helps one ignore the elephant in the room, but the talent level has been questioned for quite some time and the reason for the lack of talent gets avoided b/c some, myself included, don't want the topic brought up in every thread. I failed at that last night b/c we should have been up by much more at the 1:24 mark and I think that was entirely due to talent.
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« Reply #159 on: December 07, 2017, 09:28:28 am »

In fairness, the announcers have been on this all year, questioning this strategy.

Either way, if we had one, then Evans has to take it.

In his defense, the call was very quick, but you can't take chances there.
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« Reply #160 on: December 07, 2017, 09:30:20 am »

Almost every school in the NCAA is a stepping stone. There are very few destination jobs. In the time they have been in the A10, VCU has lost 2 coaches to moves up in conference. Xavier lost about the same during their time in the A10, perhaps more. If you are properly set up, that is not a bad problem to have b/c it means you are winning.

My point was to what you call the "properly set up".  The reason I mentioned Xavier specifically is because I think of the problem as being about much more than facilities.  I look at the facilities issue as the RESULT of fixing the core problem, and of course a removal of a major impediment causing some of the downstream tactical problems (such as recruiting).  

IMO, this is a strategic problem first and foremost.  I really don't get the sense that Fordham is "all in" on its annual athletics investment.  It feels like something it "also does" as a budgeted student activity and alumni relations activity, but it's not really regarded as an institutionally strategic investment.  Compare that to how Xavier regarded it's athletics investment (and I'm talking long before the Cintas Center).  Night and day.  If you were a student at Xavier 30 years ago, you knew exactly how important basketball success was to the school.  I don't believe you could say the same at Fordham now.

I honestly believe that even if Fordham magically had a new arena dropped on it from heaven tomorrow, Fordham would still struggle to really break out.  We would certainly win more games, but we wouldn't have solved the strategic questions which hold it back from being a consistently winning and competitive program.  I could easily see many nights of a good but not great program playing in an arena that's 2/3 empty.

Okay, back to the actual post-game discussion.
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« Reply #161 on: December 07, 2017, 09:30:53 am »

Stop making sense.

However, the .242 has to be addressed now.

I will say we had at least three that were half way down and popped out. They did a better job getting the ball to Slanina in the post but we canít finish around the basket which leads to kick outs and the rest is history.  

I should clarify we would be talking anpbiut Neubauers game coaching last night I am talking about assistants can anyone win etc.  
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« Reply #162 on: December 07, 2017, 09:37:18 am »

Think about it: if we close out a game we are up 6 with 1.24 left there is no facilities or coaching discussion.  Not one word.  The narrative is we won ugly against a good team.  But we find a way to lose primarily because our most highly touted recruit sought after by schools in P5 and A-10 fouls a three point shooter and does not inbound the ball.  So here we are 3-5 should be 5-3.  Infuriating. 

After one of the made shot timeouts we gave up a wide open drive to the basket.  This game was a disaster by Neubauer.  He can coach but this was a bad game by him. 

I was thinking about this last night (it is a sickness) about how narrative changes based on a 1 point difference or a possession here or there. Doesn't really make much sense when you think about it.

The most infuriating thing to me is that we have a built what looks like a VERY GOOD defensive basketball team. In typically Fordham fashion we also seem to have a one of the worst offensive teams in D-1. We can't get to 50 at home. You can't make this stuff up.
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« Reply #163 on: December 07, 2017, 09:40:12 am »

Its vexing. In 30 + years of watching Fordham hoops this may be the very best defensive team I have ever seen. And the numbers bear that out.

Flip side we have an offense predicated on the 3....and we are now dead last in country in 3 point percentage a quarter of the way through season.

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« Reply #164 on: December 07, 2017, 09:40:29 am »

I was thinking about this last night (it is a sickness) about how narrative changes based on a 1 point difference or a possession here or there. Doesn't really make much sense when you think about it.

The most infuriating thing to me is that we have a built what looks like a VERY GOOD defensive basketball team. In typically Fordham fashion we also seem to have a one of the worst offensive teams in D-1. We can't get to 50 at home. You can't make this stuff up.

Even an untalented team playing on a cracked playground court can score 50 at home.
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« Reply #165 on: December 07, 2017, 09:42:15 am »

True. Winning helps one ignore the elephant in the room, but the talent level has been questioned for quite some time and the reason for the lack of talent gets avoided b/c some, myself included, don't want the topic brought up in every thread. I failed at that last night b/c we should have been up by much more at the 1:24 mark and I think that was entirely due to talent.

I agree completely. While winning changes the narrative it does not change the fact that we should have pulled away in the 2nd half with the defense we played and the way Harvard shot. Maybe it is lack of talent, maybe lack of confidence, maybe lack of killer instinct. Something is lacking.

If it is talent we will find out the rest of the year. I was hoping it was more confidence based on past results but with each game that goes by it gets harder and harder to make the case.

On a positive note: I went to the Hartford Christmas reception last night and followed the game on my phone. Very nice event and the Development person mentioned to the crowd that we had 6 point lead at half (I knew that was the beginning of the end). You can say a lot of things about McShane but he is really good at these events. The spiel he does to early action accepted students that he is trying to convince to come is a sight to behold.
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« Reply #166 on: December 07, 2017, 09:49:08 am »

The use of timeouts has been discussed for the last 3 years on this Board. It is a JN trait. Not sure of the logic as to why he takes some of the TOs when he does and then has either 1 or none at the end of games. Same with the inbounds pass. In this case it resulted in a 5 second violation but how often often the last few years have we seen an inbounds play screwed up and in some cases right after a TO. Is it the players, is it the coaching or both?
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« Reply #167 on: December 07, 2017, 09:50:41 am »

I agree completely. While winning changes the narrative it does not change the fact that we should have pulled away in the 2nd half with the defense we played and the way Harvard shot. Maybe it is lack of talent, maybe lack of confidence, maybe lack of killer instinct. Something is lacking.

If it is talent we will find out the rest of the year. I was hoping it was more confidence based on past results but with each game that goes by it gets harder and harder to make the case.

On a positive note: I went to the Hartford Christmas reception last night and followed the game on my phone. Very nice event and the Development person mentioned to the crowd that we had 6 point lead at half (I knew that was the beginning of the end). You can say a lot of things about McShane but he is really good at these events. The spiel he does to early action accepted students that he is trying to convince to come is a sight to behold.
[/b][/u]

Maybe we should put him in charge of recruiting!!
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« Reply #168 on: December 07, 2017, 09:51:13 am »

Its vexing. In 30 + years of watching Fordham hoops this may be the very best defensive team I have ever seen. And the numbers bear that out.

Flip side we have an offense predicated on the 3....and we are now dead last in country in 3 point percentage a quarter of the way through season.



If we had the 250th best team on offense in the country we would be 5-3.
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« Reply #169 on: December 07, 2017, 09:53:32 am »

The use of timeouts has been discussed for the last 3 years on this Board. It is a JN trait. Not sure of the logic as to why he takes some of the TOs when he does and then has either 1 or none at the end of games. Same with the inbounds pass. In this case it resulted in a 5 second violation but how often often the last few years have we seen an inbounds play screwed up and in some cases right after a TO. Is it the players, is it the coaching or both?

At this level of basketball, the last thing that should be costing you games is a simple in-bounds pass and/or managing your timeouts.
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« Reply #170 on: December 07, 2017, 09:56:13 am »

However, the .242 has to be addressed now.

On a positive note, we are not actually dead last in 3pt%.  We're #349, ahead of Little Rock and Coppin St!

Also, we are #4 in steals per game.  Of course, what we do with the ball after we have it is another story....
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« Reply #171 on: December 07, 2017, 09:56:22 am »

The use of timeouts has been discussed for the last 3 years on this Board. It is a JN trait. Not sure of the logic as to why he takes some of the TOs when he does and then has either 1 or none at the end of games. Same with the inbounds pass. In this case it resulted in a 5 second violation but how often often the last few years have we seen an inbounds play screwed up and in some cases right after a TO. Is it the players, is it the coaching or both?

It has to be both, but I put it more on the coaching in this case. Have to get creative, as it seems to be costing us at other times and clearly cost us last night.

I somewhat get the logic of the timeouts, but you have not know your personnel too. Know that they are the type that need the additional timeout late.
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« Reply #172 on: December 07, 2017, 09:58:47 am »

On a positive note, we are not actually dead last in 3pt%.  We're #349, ahead of Little Rock and Coppin St!

Also, we are #4 in steals per game.  Of course, what we do with the ball after we have it is another story....

After last night we are dead last.

These games are lifeless, in a dead gym, with less than 1000 fans.  Its moribund right now. 

I just listened to the post game presser. Not one question about the 3 point shooting. These are softballs, questions about the defense which we already know is good and was good. If you are not going to ask anything at all relevant to why we lost, then its a total waste of time.  I also didnt hear him ask about the last sequence with the two turnovers...

read it and weep DR:
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/fao/
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« Reply #173 on: December 07, 2017, 10:14:45 am »

True the post game presser was a joke.  No mention of any of the details that cost Fordham the game.
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« Reply #174 on: December 07, 2017, 10:21:45 am »

How do you not ask about what happened in the last 2 possessions?  You dont have to call out the coach, just ask....it is to be expected in a game like that. Geez.
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« Reply #175 on: December 07, 2017, 10:21:56 am »

After last night we are dead last.

These games are lifeless, in a dead gym, with less than 1000 fans.  Its moribund right now. 

I just listened to the post game presser. Not one question about the 3 point shooting. These are softballs, questions about the defense which we already know is good and was good. If you are not going to ask anything at all relevant to why we lost, then its a total waste of time.  I also didnt hear him ask about the last sequence with the two turnovers...

read it and weep DR:
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/fao/


I mean are there even any members of the media who actually pose questions during the post game press conference? Has to just be WFUV and News12, correct me if I'm wrong. Wonder if he'll own to these mishaps in some sort of a podcast or w/e it is they're using these days. If there is any actually type of communication between the coach and the fans and donors, not sure if there is any more.
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« Reply #176 on: December 07, 2017, 10:27:13 am »

Yea I think you are right, it was just one guy from WFUV asking softballs. Quite frankly, Neubie had the same answer for every question anyway....we fought and we held Harvard to 47 points.....you could have asked him, he how is the weather outside.....we fought and we held Harvard to 47 points......why the brown jacket with gray slacks.....we fought and we held Harvard to 47 points...

He is a heck of a defensive coach, I will give him that....but we gotta find some offense somewhere....I think you have to give hicks more of a shot now....let him run 35 minutes, see what happens. He clearly is now trying to work it in to Slanina down low so he appears to be modifying the O a bit....but someone has to get hot...
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« Reply #177 on: December 07, 2017, 10:33:17 am »

Crawford runs the defense.  Neubauer has to do something anything to reach out to fans in general.  The two minute video where he talks 30 seconds is useless.  Go on FUV on a Saturday take questions from fans.  He is fun to talk to about basketball but for some reason he avoids engaging on a regular basis.
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« Reply #178 on: December 07, 2017, 10:37:36 am »

Crawford runs the defense.  Neubauer has to do something anything to reach out to fans in general.  The two minute video where he talks 30 seconds is useless.  Go on FUV on a Saturday take questions from fans.  He is fun to talk to about basketball but for some reason he avoids engaging on a regular basis.

He has stayed away from WFUV like the plague.
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« Reply #179 on: December 07, 2017, 10:39:55 am »

   Like most coaches, Coach Neu is stubborn to a fault.  I don't think he's comfortable with the talent he has this year, hence more micromanaging.  He really misses Hawkins.  We have a bunch of guards coming in next year, joining an already guard-heavy squad.  That says something about what the coaches think of our talent.  I was early in dismissing Pekarek and Havsa, but you can tell fairly soon whether a kid has what it takes for this level.  Way more often than not, no amount of "development" at this stage will fix that.  Just gotta move on to the next freshman/transfer.

   I agree 100% with 85 on the assistant route for our coaches.  It's really a no-brainer.  But, that's for another time.  I'm a Neubauer fan, he just needs to up the talent going forward.    
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