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Harvard @ Fordham Pregame/In-game 12/6/17 7PM


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Author Topic: Harvard @ Fordham Pregame/In-game 12/6/17 7PM  (Read 4202 times)
ace93
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« Reply #120 on: December 06, 2017, 10:35:31 pm »

fholbr, if you see an edit on your post it is b/c I am fixed your misquote.

Why Not?  Quinnipac hired Dunleavy from Villanova - he has some good recruits coming in and I saw him play Columbia - his team moved the ball around and hit like 14 3ptrs. Would he have rather taken the FU job if it was available? Look at the success the Football program had when it brought in Moorehead an assistant from UCONN.

Quinny has better facilities than we do and they are in a conference they can win. With our setup, the best we will do in the A10 is compete to finish in the top half.
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« Reply #121 on: December 06, 2017, 10:51:23 pm »

I already touched on why they can land those players, and they are only arguably better. That also does not mean they would compete in the A10. Remember that despite how horrible we have been, we have split with Manhattan the last few years. If you don't think the facilities are a huge detriment then you have to get your head out of the sand.

What people need to do is stop thinking that it is not about facilities. It is not just the gym they play in, but practice facility, locker room, etc. The topic might get old, but that does not mean that it is not a true issue.

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« Reply #122 on: December 06, 2017, 11:39:22 pm »

Up 6 with 1:24 left and we foul the three point shooter who happens to be their best free throw shooter.  Then get a quick 5 second call but still our fault because we canít inbound the effing ball.  Then we leave open a 52% three point shooter who up to that point shot was 1-5.  You canít make this up.

Slanina was exhausted end of first half when he bricked 3 shots in a row.  No sub.
Pekarek goes 1-6 from 3 unacceptable to let him shoot that much.
Perris Hicks was atrocious tonight we told you this would happen.
We had enough talent to win this game what we lacked was a good substitution pattern, red light for some of our guys, basketball IQ and guts down the stretch.

Up 6 with 1:24 left we had a 90%  of winning according to ESPN. 
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« Reply #123 on: December 06, 2017, 11:42:25 pm »

Quinny has better facilities than we do and they are in a conference they can win. With our setup, the best we will do in the A10 is compete to finish in the top half.

I have to agree.  We may get a good coach and even crack the top third of the conference, but we would eventually revert to our mean without addressing the facilities problem.  

I actually see the facilities problem as a symptom of the bigger problem, which is the ambiguity on all things athletics.  I won't go too far down this road, so I'll just say that I don't understand what Fordham is hoping to accomplish by trying to compete in the A10 without seeming to have a coherent plan to make their conference commitment and annual investment pay off.  Our facility essentially cancels out our annual investment and effort.  We're kidding ourselves to think otherwise.

What's the plan here?
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« Reply #124 on: December 06, 2017, 11:46:46 pm »

Up 6 minute half left. Not sure the facilities fouled a three point shooter or did not inbound the ball. Effing  stupid for this to be in the this game thread.
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« Reply #125 on: December 07, 2017, 12:07:42 am »

Up 6 minute half left. Not sure the facilities fouled a three point shooter or did not inbound the ball. Effing  stupid for this to be in the this game thread.

Who gives a crap that it is a game thread. Get players who can play and we are more than up 6 and not in that situation. Additionally if we are ever in that type of situation against a legitimate team, if we have better players they don't commit those atrocities. The only thing that is "effing stupid" is to think that this was an in game issue. It is a roster issue and the roster is weak for very obvious reasons. It is the reason why, with very few exceptions, our roster has been weak for 25 years.
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« Reply #126 on: December 07, 2017, 12:26:32 am »

Can anyone tell me why Coach JN played Havsa 20 minutes tonight and Hicks only 10 minutes and played Pekarek 14 and Raut only 17 minutes?Huh?? This makes no sense at all to me!

Hicks and Raut have had some really good games this year and have helped Fordham win some games this year and are a thousand times better than Havsa and Pekarek who are absolutely horrible. I have seen Division 3 players that are way better than Havsa/Pekarek. Pekarek was 1-6 from 3 point range and he is an awful shooter and every time Havsa is in there he over dribbles aimlessly around in circles without a purpose probably because he is terrified to shoot and then he always passes the ball to his team-mates with 1 or 2 seconds left on the shot clock and because of this Fordham gets one shot clock violation after another or has to force a desperation shot on the shot clock buzzer and yet coach JN makes no adjustments. I like Coach JN and how he coaches defensively but this is inexcusable and is mind boggling. Is he talking to and coaching Havsa and his players about this? Fordham was 7-33 from 3 point range tonight which is horrendous and since Fordham is so bad at shooting 3 pointers, why does coach JN continue to gives these guys the green light to keep on shooting them. The definition of this is insanity and he is coaching to Fordham's weaknesses offensively by having the players shooting all of these 3's over and over instead of attacking the basket fearlessly early in the shot clock or pulling up for a 10 foot jumper which Fordham shoots better than a 3.    
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« Reply #127 on: December 07, 2017, 12:37:26 am »

Can anyone tell me why Coach JN played Havsa 20 minutes tonight and Hicks only 10 minutes and played Pekarek 14 and Raut only 17 minutes?Huh?? This makes no sense at all to me!

I am not sure Pekarek vs. Raut, but for the other, coaches don't like drama around their teams. It's called the reverse mama.
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« Reply #128 on: December 07, 2017, 12:49:20 am »

I am not sure Pekarek vs. Raut, but for the other, coaches don't like drama around their teams. It's called the reverse mama.

We said it at the time.  It never ends well for the player.  Letís hope the message was sent and they move on. 
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« Reply #129 on: December 07, 2017, 12:56:10 am »

I am not sure Pekarek vs. Raut, but for the other, coaches don't like drama around their teams. It's called the reverse mama.

I agree (as Ace drops the mic and walks away . . . ).

But seriously, there are several games like this every year, and have been every year for the past 25. It's disheartening, and it explains the lack of fan response. Good fans will stick with you through thick or thin, but they expect a little "thick" every now and again. We just haven't had that (Glenn Batemon notwithstanding).  Perhaps it's because there are so few fans, but the Administration does absolutely nothing to excite or engage their fans (hiring security guards to control their movements at games doesn't count).

Yes, a new facility would presumably build some fan excitement. But with the current Athletic Administration in place, I'm not sure. "The fans" or even  the concept of fans, has been missing from this program for a long time. I hate to say it, but the game day experience at Rose Hill this year is not notably different from that when I was an undergrad, decades ago.

I can only imagine how folks working at other Athletic Departments must view their counterparts at Fordham. "You're under NO pressure to put fans in the seats?" "You don't have to do ANY dedicated athletic fundraising?" Must be nice, but of course the Fordham folks are working at a dead-end program.

One almost expects to find the Athletic Department listed in the University Catalogue under the heading "After-School Activities".
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« Reply #130 on: December 07, 2017, 06:13:04 am »

Evans got called 4 & 3/4 seconds; following the pseudo meeting at Table.  ABOS

Hard games like this can Make a team, they can Break a Team
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« Reply #131 on: December 07, 2017, 06:46:47 am »

I disagree about Havsa. Can't excuse the clock violation of course, but he had 1 turnover against 4 assists last night. He should have had more assists but he finds guys for wide open shots and they throw up bricks. He seems afraid to shoot. Pekarek definitely is not reluctant to do so.
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« Reply #132 on: December 07, 2017, 07:16:05 am »

Listen to Neu's post game comments. You'd think we were playing a top 20 team
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« Reply #133 on: December 07, 2017, 07:35:13 am »

I think our best chance to improve is to hire an assistant from a strong program. Someone who can put some life in this program and understands the importance of recruiting.

No good assistant with the hope of moving up the ladder would take the Fordham job.  It's a career killer.  JN is finding that out now.
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« Reply #134 on: December 07, 2017, 07:37:18 am »

No good assistant with the hope of moving up the ladder would take the Fordham job.  It's a career killer.  JN is finding that out now.

Stop
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« Reply #135 on: December 07, 2017, 07:38:01 am »

The positives: Slanina has learned to play effectively without fouling. We continue to play stifling defense.

Its hard to imagine holding a team to 20% 3 point shooting and 47 points and still losing. The D will at least keep us in these games.

What was our timeout situation during Havsa's dancing with the Stars audition and Evans failure to inbound?   Were we out of TOs?  Were they squandered after made baskets again?
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« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2017, 07:49:17 am »

The positives: Slanina has learned to play effectively without fouling. We continue to play stifling defense.

Its hard to imagine holding a team to 20% 3 point shooting and 47 points and still losing. The D will at least keep us in these games.

What was our timeout situation during Havsa's dancing with the Stars audition and Evans failure to inbound?   Were we out of TOs?  Were they squandered after made baskets again?

We had one left. Two were used after made baskets. I get that type of use, but at times it kills our momentum and obviously leaves us in need at the end. I know you can't take a timeout into the locker room, but I would prefer to enter the locker room with a timeout in my pocket and a victory.

I would not be shocked if the instructions before that now infamous inbound were to get the ball across court and call a timeout. That might have been in Evans' head and he was hesitant to use it, but he has to also know that the timeout is available there if needed.
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« Reply #137 on: December 07, 2017, 08:08:02 am »

That timeout situation had to have had something to do with Havsa's and Evans' failure to call timeout. When JN called his signature TO after a made basket with more than 12 minutes remaining, everyone knew we only had one remaining.  You'd have to think that some coach reminded the kids about that fact. It was definitely in their heads, IMHO.
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« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2017, 08:12:02 am »

Cant the coach call a TO on in-bounds plays?
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« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2017, 08:18:16 am »

No good assistant with the hope of moving up the ladder would take the Fordham job.  It's a career killer.  JN is finding that out now.

1. JN was not an assistant who took this job, he was an established mid major head coach.
2. We have not hired an assistant since when? Pecora was a mid major HC, so was DW, Hill was a former NBA HC, Nick was a mid major HC, Penders was an established HC at Columbia....

Calling the Fordham job a career killer for an "assistant" is not accurate and has no meaningful history, if any, to evaluate it. We have never gone that route in the A-10 or even in the MAAC. An assistant making $200K at a Providence or Syracuse takes the Fordham gig for $500K guaranteed for 4 years and it doesn't work out, you think his career is dead?  Now, it might kill the head coaching career for an established mid major coach, like Pecora, that I might agree with, but the assistant route has not been tried and I dont think its the same career killer potential. A good assistant could likely land right back at a top school as an assistant, with a hefty bank roll.

I think many fans are wholly unrealistic about the head coaching opportunities at this level of basketball. and for this kind of $$. Look at how long it took Prioleau to get a head coaching gig. Sometimes, even with great assistants it just never happens.
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« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2017, 08:22:59 am »

Cant the coach call a TO on in-bounds plays?

Coaches can't call timeout during live play and the inbounds situation is considered live play. There was a proposal to allow that in 2016, but I am not sure it ever passed.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2016-05-18/college-basketball-timeouts-change-recommended-rules

Edit:
It looks like it passed, as the 2017-18 rule states:
Section 14. Timeouts Granted and Charged
Art. 1. A timeout shall be granted and charged after a visual or oral request by a player in .a through .c or by a head coach in .b and .c or the conditions in .d and .e exist:
a. When a player of that team is in control of the ball (this includes throwins and free throws) (Exception: Rule 5-15.1.c.);
b. When the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to the ball and before it has been released for a throw-in;
c. When the ball is dead;
d. When the appeal for a correctable error or timing, scoring or alternating possession mistake is reviewed and the officialís ruling is not reversed, and
e. When the appeal to review the monitor for a flagrant 2 contact foul, flagrant 1 contact foul, or contact dead ball technical foul does not result in a flagrant contact foul or contact dead ball technical foul being charged.
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« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2017, 08:25:21 am »

Thanks for the clarification. Teammates have to help you out there.
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« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2017, 08:28:06 am »

I am not saying that hiring a top assistant at big school will definitely work but we haven't tried it . The same go get a mid major coach plan, with no upgrade in our infrastructure, is failing again.

The "possibilities" I can see in a big school assistant making it work, short term, are like football. We get a top assistant from a big school. He snags a couple of transfers from his school and then a couple of guys he was recruiting to that school who are either in HS or looking to transfer from somewhere else. You have a transition year with the transfers, then maybe win for 1-2 years with that coach and its rinse repeat. To me, its the only feasible blueprint left,  given the aforementioned issues regarding facilities and infrastructure.

Its not like Neaubauer cant coach. This is probably the best defense I have seen any Fordham team play in 30 years. But we dont have the athletes, that is becoming very clear.

 
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« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2017, 08:37:22 am »

Thanks for the clarification. Teammates have to help you out there.

Further clarification/edit above.

I am not saying that hiring a top assistant at big school will definitely work but we haven't tried it . The same go get a mid major coach plan, with no upgrade in our infrastructure, is failing again.

The "possibilities" I can see in a big school assistant making it work, short term, are like football. We get a top assistant from a big school. He snags a couple of transfers from his school and then a couple of guys he was recruiting to that school who are either in HS or looking to transfer from somewhere else. You win for 2-3 years max and its rinse repeat. To me, its the only feasible blueprint left,  given the aforementioned issues regarding facilities and infrastructure.

I agree that it has not been tried, will maybe work for 2-3 years, and then it's rinse-repeat. The one big difference between FCS football and basketball is that in basketball the transfers will need to sit, so it can take longer to show dividends.

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« Reply #144 on: December 07, 2017, 08:40:50 am »

Agreed ACE, that's where the new HC would have to snag a couple of 5th year guys for immediate infusion. It's not easy.  It's a crazy game these days but this would appear to be our only viable blueprint remaining that could "maybe" achieve success.

 
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« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2017, 08:43:08 am »

I think the flip side of the facilities issue is that even if we solved that, unless we were all-in on everything else (like Xavier) Fordham will most likely always be a stepping stone school, albeit one that is higher up the staircase.  We will experience more success and on a consistent basis, and we will still occasionally lose coaches and have to rebuild.  The difference is that the rebuilding process will be easier.

Fordham really needs to make a decision on which way they want to go here.
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« Reply #146 on: December 07, 2017, 08:45:38 am »

The stepping stone route makes far more sense. Look at the all-in schools in our conference. VCU lost Shaka Smart. Dayton lost Pernell, Miller, and the guy who went to GaTech.  Xavier lost Thad Matta. Its not like even our top all-in schools can keep their coaches.
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« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2017, 08:46:02 am »

I think the flip side of the facilities issue is that even if we solved the facilities issue, unless we were all-in on everything else (like Xavier) Fordham will most likely always be a stepping stone school, albeit one that is higher up the staircase.  We will experience more success and on a consistent basis, and we will still occasionally lose coaches and have to rebuild.  The difference is that the rebuilding process will be easier.

Fordham really needs to make a decision on which way they want to go here.

Almost every school in the NCAA is a stepping stone. There are very few destination jobs. In the time they have been in the A10, VCU has lost 2 coaches to moves up in conference. Xavier lost about the same during their time in the A10, perhaps more. If you are properly set up, that is not a bad problem to have b/c it means you are winning.
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« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2017, 08:48:19 am »

Side note, given last night's game we now appear to have the worst 3 point shooting percentage in all of college basketball, 351 teams. .242 puts us dead last.

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« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2017, 08:49:58 am »

fholbr, if you see an edit on your post it is b/c I am fixed your misquote.

Quinny has better facilities than we do and they are in a conference they can win. With our setup, the best we will do in the A10 is compete to finish in the top half.

This is a very good point. Quinny is a great situation for a coach on the rise. It could be argued that our situation is one of the worst for a coach trying to get to a Power 5 job.
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