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Recruiting Update


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John
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« Reply #3930 on: March 22, 2011, 10:40:37 am »

Losing a local kid we want very much to the Southern Conference (Charleston) would not be a good thing.  As for competing with the BE and A-10 for recruits in the future, when we're "better", that's theoretically a sound notion. The issue is how we plan to get "better", hampered as we are by too-small, too-old facilities, a lazy Athletic Department, and a diffident Administration. Unfortunately, I don't see anything on the horizon reasonably calculated to let us even register a blip against some of the local BE programs -- St. John's enjoyed a resurgence this year, Seton Hall will improve and has a nice 19,000 seat arena for home games, and Rutgers has a great recruiting class and is renovating the RAC -- much less against some of the established powers like Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, etc.

Typical Fordham -- do it on the cheap, refuse to acknowledge how far behind we've fallen, and pray for another 1970-71-type miracle team.  We've been doing it this way for over 40 years now.
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« Reply #3931 on: March 22, 2011, 11:17:23 am »

Losing a local kid we want very much to the Southern Conference (Charleston) would not be a good thing.  As for competing with the BE and A-10 for recruits in the future, when we're "better", that's theoretically a sound notion. The issue is how we plan to get "better", hampered as we are by too-small, too-old facilities, a lazy Athletic Department, and a diffident Administration. Unfortunately, I don't see anything on the horizon reasonably calculated to let us even register a blip against some of the local BE programs -- St. John's enjoyed a resurgence this year, Seton Hall will improve and has a nice 19,000 seat arena for home games, and Rutgers has a great recruiting class and is renovating the RAC -- much less against some of the established powers like Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, etc.

Typical Fordham -- do it on the cheap, refuse to acknowledge how far behind we've fallen, and pray for another 1970-71-type miracle team.  We've been doing it this way for over 40 years now.

At Fordham, in the Sports Administration, there is no penalty for failure. 
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« Reply #3932 on: March 22, 2011, 11:30:04 am »

We need a scorer. Unless this kid was playing against the Little Bus All-Stars all season, there has to some legitimacy to his scoring ability.

I read that he had some trouble with the double team in the title game, but I think he won't be drawing doubles with us (if he is we have much bigger problems).

I would rather take a shot at a kid like this than a kid getting limited minutes at a power program or prep school. Logging DNP-CDs in the scorebook and getting lauded as a great practice player just doesn't do it for me.

I've never seen this kid play, so I only know what I read about him.  Despite not attracting the attention of well known programs. I must admit that there is something intriguing about him.  My comments were not intended to be a criticism of Smitty, but rather an observation that overall our recruiting focus seems to be on talent that is generally not considered A-10 caliber.
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« Reply #3933 on: March 22, 2011, 11:50:51 am »

Ryan Pearson of George Mason -

If I'm not mistaken, didn't we target him as a Spring signee a few years ago? Long Island kid...turned out to be a pretty good player. Did we formally offer him? I'm pretty sure we were on his short list. He's a bit undersized but maybe that's the level of forward we could nab at this point.

Just please, no Danny Thompson II.
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« Reply #3934 on: March 22, 2011, 11:57:14 am »

It seems like we're competing vs. the likes of CCSU and Hofstra for Smitty's services.  I know this kid drained 68 in a game early this season, and perhaps he's flying beneath everyone else's radar, but landing NEC or CAA talent is not going to get it done.  If, as 'backer says, he's our top recruiting target for 2011, then I'm more than just a little bit concerned.

 I'll take it if gets us to where VCU, Old Dominion and George Mason have been of late.  Roll Eyes
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Rich93
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« Reply #3935 on: March 22, 2011, 12:02:38 pm »

top flight CAA talent can form a strong base for a competitive A-10 program.  The key is to then add in a few elite A-10 players to carry us over the goal line and get to the tournament. 
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« Reply #3936 on: March 22, 2011, 12:26:47 pm »

Fair points.  There will always be kids who for one reason or another fall through the cracks and blossom into top shelf D-1 talent.  If we land Smitty, then I hope he falls into that category.  But these situations are the exception rather than the rule, and quite frankly require a fair degree of luck.  If we are going to compete consistently on the A-10 level, we need to be able to consistently attract A-10 level talent.  I don't see strong evidence that this is happening yet.  That being said, this is a work in progress that will take some time and require patience.

1. Anderson was 145 lbs in high school and Howard was top 100ish player with multiple power conference offers.
2. TP needed hit the ground running on the recruiting front.  He didnt.       
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« Reply #3937 on: March 22, 2011, 12:27:05 pm »

Fordham is recruiting Milos Kostic a soph from indiana 6-8
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« Reply #3938 on: March 22, 2011, 12:29:20 pm »

1. Anderson was 145 lbs in high school and Howard was top 100ish player with multiple power conference offers.
2. TP needed hit the ground running on the recruiting front.  He didnt.       
sorry youre right Howard was a bad example,thats what i get for not doing my own research on him b4 posting.
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« Reply #3939 on: March 22, 2011, 12:35:00 pm »

Yes, but -- face it --, anyone with a realistic shot at joining up with a Big East or other A-10 team isn't coming here. Pecora's got to find sleepers and guys he thinks are under-recruited. Smith wasn't high profile because (1) he apparently didn't play much AAU ball and (2) he didn't play for the top division of his league. (Shades of Bryant Dunston). But he does seem to have the ability to put that round inflated thing into the middle of that iron circle -- a skill we were sorely lacking from most positions last year.

The bigger concern will be if we lose him to a team from a "lower" conference. Hofstra's coming off a 20-win season and postseason appearance, has a newish 5,000 seat campus arena and plays in the CAA, which represented itself pretty well in the NCAA tournament. Charleston, also coming off a good season and post-season gig, has a gorgeous new 5,000 seat arena and a well-known coach with a history of recruiting NYC guards. What Pecora is selling is the school and the chance to play in the A-10, a more highly rated conference.  But what if Smith decides, "I can play in a bigger, newer arena and have a better chance of making the NCAA tournament" at one of those other schools? Smith could be an acid test for Pecora's recruiting abilities. This is precisely the kind of kid he specialized in at his last job.  What would it say if he fails to land a kid he almost certainly would have landed had he still been the coach at Hofstra?  While you can't ever guarantee you'll land a particular kid, if TP2 fails to land Smith, it would definitely be time to signal a few alarm bells.

+1     All Eyes are on Pecora.   
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« Reply #3940 on: March 22, 2011, 12:35:29 pm »

Fordham is recruiting Milos Kostic a soph from indiana 6-8

But Milos only wants to play for Dallas.
Milos really wants to play for Brussels.
Milos only wants to play for Shanghai.
Buenos Aires...
Frankfurt...
Milos really wants to play for Rome.
How's your Japanese?
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« Reply #3941 on: March 22, 2011, 01:39:59 pm »

How were Jio and Gaston as recruits?  I thought they were very good recruits or were they diamonds in the rough?  I know Jio didn't work out for us, but wasn't he recruited by some bigger schools?  I'm asking because I don't know.  If the were big recruits, it does prove that we have attracted some bigger names in recent years, despite all of our other shortcomings. 
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« Reply #3942 on: March 22, 2011, 01:46:45 pm »

it would raise some eyebrows if we lost out to a CAA school that had 20 wins last year but is losing the player that got them those wins or CCS. 

You mean kinda like Jio picking us despite us losing the players that got us that winning season?  You're completely lost.  
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« Reply #3943 on: March 22, 2011, 01:55:16 pm »

You mean kinda like Jio picking us despite us losing the players that got us that winning season?  You're completely lost.  

You recruit a guy during and after an 18 win season, you use it as evidence that you have turned this program around.  You tell the kid I know how to recruit and I know how to coach, I have more recruits coming in next year before you even take the court.  You tell him look at what I did with this program in few years.  You tell him you will be a part of the next team that will be better than 18 wins because now as a coach and recruiter I have credibility.  None of that works after a 3 win season, the 18 win season is a flash in the pan, the coach is shown to be a buffoon in both recruiting and Xs and Os and the talented player goes to another school because this place was a mess. 
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« Reply #3944 on: March 22, 2011, 02:04:31 pm »

More on 6' 9" sophomore Serbian F Milos Kostic, from Hammond Bishop Noll HS in Indiana. He has offers from Fordham & Northwestern and is also being recruited by Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue.  Heís a down low player but isnít too physical.

Here are a couple of scouting reports on him:

1. Has a nice stroke from the baseline and smart kid with the ball. He's a good shooter and very good passer.  He has a natural shooting stroke, and with more work backing his man down in the post he could turn into an offensive threat. He didnít do much defensively other than the occasional rebound, but he showed enough skills offensively Ė including some smart passes out of the post Ė to be a viable prospect.  Heís a moose of a young man.

2. Milos Kostic is a 6-foot-8, top-shelf basketball talent who enrolled at Bishop Noll recently as a freshman. The transplant from Serbia has been ranked No. 1 among freshmen in Indiana by some recruiting publications. There is one thing that Kostic is not.  "He is not an exchange student," Noll coach Drew Trost said. "We'll have Milos for the next four years."

Kostic lives on the south side of Chicago with his brother. In just a month of attending the north Hammond parochial school, Notre Dame, Purdue and Northwestern have all visited Noll's campus to watch Kostic play. He joins a talented Warriors team that finished 13-9 last season.

He is the second Serbian national to join a Greater South Shore Conference school during this past summer. Wheeler had 6-foot-8 Serbian forward Aleksa Kojcinovic join its school recently.

Kostic is working hard to learn the English language and connect with his teammates.

"He is a phenomenal passer," Trost said. "And that doesn't mean he can't shoot because he can. But he'll look for cutters first, and he'll get them the ball most of the time. He can score inside and he can score outside. The upside for this kid is unbelievable."



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« Reply #3945 on: March 22, 2011, 02:14:51 pm »

This comparison of schools offering doesnt hold up.

More often than not, it does hold up.  The examples you cite are exceptions.  If you look at this season's all A10 teams (including the Rookie Team), the overwhelming number of players spurned offers from the Big East, SEC, Big 10, and other A10 programs.  It makes sense with all the recruiting trips, AAU ball, and tourneys played that good players don't escape notice regularly.

That said, we only need 1-2 hits like that to get going.
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« Reply #3946 on: March 22, 2011, 02:33:47 pm »

Interesting.  What recruiting contact or angle is Pecora working in Indiana? I don't recall him recruiting there when he was at Hofstra. Still, it never hurts to recruit in a place where hoops is the state religion.
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« Reply #3947 on: March 22, 2011, 02:53:20 pm »

More often than not, it does hold up.  The examples you cite are exceptions.  If you look at this season's all A10 teams (including the Rookie Team), the overwhelming number of players spurned offers from the Big East, SEC, Big 10, and other A10 programs.  It makes sense with all the recruiting trips, AAU ball, and tourneys played that good players don't escape notice regularly.

That said, we only need 1-2 hits like that to get going.

Can you really say "spurned"? Maybe occasionally, but just because a kid is recruited by say, a UConn or a Tennessee, does not mean that kid was that school's priority. Every coach goes after far more kids than he can take (look at all teh kid Fordham has 'offered' over the last few years), and many don't make the cut and slide to someone else. The system narrows the choices of the players as much as it does the schools. Many of these guys you are talking about were probably second (or lower) choices for those BCS conference schools, who got kids they thought more highly of -- even if they eventually aren't any better on the court.
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« Reply #3948 on: March 22, 2011, 02:55:13 pm »

More often than not, it does hold up.  The examples you cite are exceptions.  If you look at this season's all A10 teams (including the Rookie Team), the overwhelming number of players spurned offers from the Big East, SEC, Big 10, and other A10 programs.  It makes sense with all the recruiting trips, AAU ball, and tourneys played that good players don't escape notice regularly.

That said, we only need 1-2 hits like that to get going.

Herb Tanner blew that theory out of the water.   Roll Eyes

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« Reply #3949 on: March 22, 2011, 03:14:31 pm »

Interesting.  What recruiting contact or angle is Pecora working in Indiana? I don't recall him recruiting there when he was at Hofstra. Still, it never hurts to recruit in a place where hoops is the state religion.

Indiana high school basketball is outstanding.  New York is hot and is a good sell right now.  Plus the usual camp connections, etc.
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« Reply #3950 on: March 22, 2011, 03:23:33 pm »

More often than not, it does hold up.  The examples you cite are exceptions.  If you look at this season's all A10 teams (including the Rookie Team), the overwhelming number of players spurned offers from the Big East, SEC, Big 10, and other A10 programs.  It makes sense with all the recruiting trips, AAU ball, and tourneys played that good players don't escape notice regularly.


Its only one factor. Look at UR's other star Justin Harper he was a 2 star rivals recruit with offers from temple providence and ECU. So while he did have one other a10 and one big east he was not ranked in rivals top 150 (or any of their national or local rankings)and now he is projected as a 2nd round nba draft pick.
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« Reply #3951 on: March 22, 2011, 03:31:08 pm »

Can you really say "spurned"? Maybe occasionally, but just because a kid is recruited by say, a UConn or a Tennessee, does not mean that kid was that school's priority. Every coach goes after far more kids than he can take (look at all teh kid Fordham has 'offered' over the last few years), and many don't make the cut and slide to someone else. The system narrows the choices of the players as much as it does the schools. Many of these guys you are talking about were probably second (or lower) choices for those BCS conference schools, who got kids they thought more highly of -- even if they eventually aren't any better on the court.

You're right, spurned is probably too strong.  But most kids jump at the big offer, even if it means sitting on the bench or eventually transferring.  Such offers also mean that some top staffs in pressure-filled jobs thought the kid could hold his own at that level.  Of course, not all pan out.
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« Reply #3952 on: March 22, 2011, 03:32:14 pm »

Herb Tanner blew that theory out of the water.   Roll Eyes

Turning back the clock, another guy that never worked out - Mani Massey.

He was the Big East recruit (Seton Hall) that we desperately wanted. Goes to show, you just never know.
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« Reply #3953 on: March 22, 2011, 03:37:21 pm »

Its only one factor. Look at UR's other star Justin Harper he was a 2 star rivals recruit with offers from temple providence and ECU. So while he did have one other a10 and one big east he was not ranked in rivals top 150 (or any of their national or local rankings)and now he is projected as a 2nd round nba draft pick.

Harper was also lost in space and infuriating to Richmond fans until the middle of his junior year.  He's an excellent example of the flip side of recruiting and signing the stud - unlocking the potential of the stud who hasn't yet shown his true ability.  Mooney to beat a dead tired horse of a cliche "coaches up".  I can't wait to see what he does with Derrick Williams in 2 years, as a frosh he looked like he was on a different page of the playbook but when he finally gets it - look out

Maybe in 2 years we also say holy moly that/those Frazier/Dominique/McMillan guy(s) was/were underrecruited.  Or maybe we don't.  I can't wait to find out.
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« Reply #3954 on: March 22, 2011, 03:42:00 pm »

Of course it's not the only factor and you never really know and there are exceptions, but by and large most top A10 players have had offers from other A10 schools or above.  Look at this season's rookie team:  other than McConnell, they held offers from the A10, Big 10, Big East, and SEC.  Same goes for the all-league selections: Allen, Harper, Holloway, Saunders, Clark, Gurley, etc (that's 5 different A10 programs' worth).

On a related note, looks like frosh PG Staten is leaving Dayton.  Was a heralded recruit.
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« Reply #3955 on: March 22, 2011, 03:50:42 pm »

Harper was also lost in space and infuriating to Richmond fans until the middle of his junior year.  He's an excellent example of the flip side of recruiting and signing the stud - unlocking the potential of the stud who hasn't yet shown his true ability.  Mooney to beat a dead tired horse of a cliche "coaches up".  I can't wait to see what he does with Derrick Williams in 2 years, as a frosh he looked like he was on a different page of the playbook but when he finally gets it - look out

Maybe in 2 years we also say holy moly that/those Frazier/Dominique/McMillan guy(s) was/were underrecruited.  Or maybe we don't.  I can't wait to find out.

I doubt Mooney will be there in 2 years.  In fact, I doubt he'll be there next season.  A sweet 16 run with a senior laden team.  Don't be surprised if he ends up at GT.  Hopefully he would still come to Rose Hill, thinking that there is very little risk involved.
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« Reply #3956 on: March 22, 2011, 05:59:44 pm »

You recruit a guy during and after an 18 win season, you use it as evidence that you have turned this program around.  You tell the kid I know how to recruit and I know how to coach, I have more recruits coming in next year before you even take the court.  You tell him look at what I did with this program in few years.  You tell him you will be a part of the next team that will be better than 18 wins because now as a coach and recruiter I have credibility.  None of that works after a 3 win season, the 18 win season is a flash in the pan, the coach is shown to be a buffoon in both recruiting and Xs and Os and the talented player goes to another school because this place was a mess. 

So losing the 1 guy who got all the wins is considered a detriment to the CAA team's recruiting, but our losing the 5 (!) guys who got all the wins is not?!?  Why would it raise eyebrows if we lost a guy to such a program?  By your own measure, Jio coming here raised eyebrows in a good way for us.

What other significant recruits were in the fold at the time?

1 winning season (with no postseason) is not a selling point to any 5 year old.

Just stop, you're spinning in circles.
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« Reply #3957 on: March 22, 2011, 06:10:52 pm »

Turning back the clock, another guy that never worked out - Mani Massey.

He was the Big East recruit (Seton Hall) that we desperately wanted. Goes to show, you just never know.

Yeah, we were pretty hot for him.

What was the name of the tall Russian/Eastern European kid TBC brought in for a gulp of Gatorade?  I remember pulling him off some student hecklers after he climbed the stands and then breaking up an ensuing fight down below involving some player friends, including some females.  That was pretty wild.  Anyone remember that?
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« Reply #3958 on: March 22, 2011, 06:28:33 pm »

By your own measure, Jio coming here raised eyebrows in a good way for us.

What other significant recruits were in the fold at the time?

At the time Jio committed, Butler was coming off his best season as a Ram.  Mike Moore was a touted recruit out of CT.  Gaston also was being actively recruited, but then prepped for a year to get his house in order.  There was talk about rebuilding the team around Fontan, and I believe he was fully on the band wagon and assisted in the recruiting of Gaston.  That all changed after he played a season under the "mad" coach. 
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« Reply #3959 on: March 22, 2011, 06:35:20 pm »

Yeah, we were pretty hot for him.

What was the name of the tall Russian/Eastern European kid TBC brought in for a gulp of Gatorade?  I remember pulling him off some student hecklers after he climbed the stands and then breaking up an ensuing fight down below involving some player friends, including some females.  That was pretty wild.  Anyone remember that?

Lukasz Obrzut in street clothes? Mitar Zivanovic? (also, likely in street clothes)

It's a shame I recall these obscure names with such ease. Meaningless knowledge that could be put to more valuable warranted causes.
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