Lance Brown Officially GONE

[John]

Good luck to Lance. Lance will go down in conference level with Robert Morris and Quinnipiac the current leaders (per his own Twitter). If knee holds up, should find success on that level.

One gets the impression that Pecora does not analyze talent levels the way Grasso did. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[An Old Coach]

My understanding is that it is all but a done deal.  I believe the decision to close PC has been made, pending sign-off from the bishop.

[An Old Coach]

One gets the impression that Pecora does not analyze talent levels the way Grasso did. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I think Pecora has a stronger idea about the true level a player should be at, which will definitely help.  Let's face it, out of all the supposed verbals he had lined up, it doesn't appear many are destined for A-10 level (or better) programs.

[ace93]

My understanding is that it is all but a done deal.  I believe the decuion to close PC has been made, pending sign-off from the bishop.

Well if that's the case then I guess we don't really have to worry about severing recruiting ties with Paterson Catholic then now do we. 

[An Old Coach]

Well if that's the case then I guess we don't really have to worry about severing recruiting ties with Paterson Catholic then now do we. 

No, I guess not.   Another indication of the Church's commitment to the inner city.

[RC74]

That said, T Pex has shown us that he is able to shed players or dissuade them from coming which is fine.  I realize it is early but what he has not shown yet is the ability to actually get some impact players who can make an immediate improvement. 

This is the crux of the current situation. Perhaps because I generally don't like this "pushing out" of remaining players by a new coach (and that is exactly what is happening), I do not have a good feeling about TP so far. All this talk of his being a great recruiter seems a bit over the top (besides Speedy Claxton and maybe Jenkins) who really did he get who was better than his league level?
His bringing his whole staff with him hints of a need for comfort that might avoid taking chances -- maybe even for yes men.  Why oh why am I seeing visions of the DW of 6 years ago? Boy, I hope I am way off base, but....

[unclenorbert]

so Grasso's recruits who have left FU or decommitted have gone to or seem to be going to:

Iona, Brewster Academy and RMU/Quinnipic (oh, and Hofstra).  Not a very impressive list.  What am I missing?

[B2Bomber]

No, I guess not.   Another indication of the Church's commitment to the inner city.

Oh we could start a really good fight on that topic and the demise of catholic school primary and secondary education across the country.    But I think Ace would get his face all wrinkled up pretty quickly and he might blow a lid.  So better not.

But its a very very rich topic indeed.   All sorts of issues/reasons/excuses etc.

[ace93]

Oh we could start a really good fight on that topic and the demise of catholic school primary and secondary education across the country.    But I think Ace would get his face all wrinkled up pretty quickly and he might blow a lid.  So better not.

But its a very very rich topic indeed.   All sorts of issues/reasons/excuses etc.

True.

It would be an interesting conversation/debate, but I would hate to have to moderate it or better put, be expected to moderate it.

[SIram]

This is the crux of the current situation. Perhaps because I generally don't like this "pushing out" of remaining players by a new coach (and that is exactly what is happening), I do not have a good feeling about TP so far. All this talk of his being a great recruiter seems a bit over the top (besides Speedy Claxton and maybe Jenkins) who really did he get who was better than his league level?
His bringing his whole staff with him hints of a need for comfort that might avoid taking chances -- maybe even for yes men.  Why oh why am I seeing visions of the DW of 6 years ago? Boy, I hope I am way off base, but....

Here is another way to look at this, over the last two - three years we have had very few A10 level players on our roster,  it would be a major improvement for us as a step 1 if Pecora recruits 2-3 A10 level players each year and we would see a much better record and team.  I would love a couple of home run recruits but to start I'll settle for conference level players, even CAA level players would be an improvement

[SIram]

True.

It would be an interesting conversation/debate, but I would hate to have to moderate it or better put, be expected to moderate it.

A single thread on the issues facing the Church today could consume us for a long time

[FU85]

unclenorbert,
      you are missing the fact that jio left for usc, and gaston is still here(for now).  Those were 2 pretty good recruits. As for armond, he turned down a 2 win team to go to a 21 win team that in the last 30 years has sent teams to the tourney under valvano, kennedy, ruland and welsh and is returning a bunch of starters and who could be the favorite in the maac this year. Brown, on the other hand is going to look at rmu where they have just made the tourney 2 years in a row and almost beat nova and who i believe also returns alot of players. I cannot speak for the brewster academy since i am not familiar with them.
     Could someone list the other good players on our team that the other coaches recruited?  Players want a shot to be on tv and play in the ncaa's and maybe some of these guys did not think that they were gonna get that opportunity at FU. So if your goal was to put down the level of grassos recruits I believe you need to re-evaluate because his guys seemed better that what our other coaches brought in to play and i am hoping that we will not be reminded of this for the entire next season when Iona is on its way to some post season tourney and we are struggling for our third win of the season.

[RC74]

Here is another way to look at this, over the last two - three years we have had very few A10 level players on our roster,  it would be a major improvement for us as a step 1 if Pecora recruits 2-3 A10 level players each year and we would see a much better record and team.  I would love a couple of home run recruits but to start I'll settle for conference level players, even CAA level players would be an improvement

I agree. I just am getting a gut feeling that he may not be able to do this. We have yet to hear an A10-level name even associated/rumored  with TP. As I have said, I'm a fan of Brown; he was one of the few positives on the roster, and so it troubles me that he is not welcome.

[unclenorbert]

FU85,

My goal, as you call it, was to complete an accurate picture in my mind of who has left the program due to the coaching chaos of this year and how damaging it might be.  Thank you for reminding me of Jio - duh - I had somehow forgotten about him.  As Gaston isn't leaving (apparently) no need to include him.

In any event, with the exception of USC, the other transfers, etc. are not to major or even high mid major destinations.  Now I have the picture.  Thanks again for the info.

[ace93]

I agree. I just am getting a gut feeling that he may not be able to do this. We have yet to hear an A10-level name even associated/rumored  with TP. As I have said, I'm a fan of Brown; he was one of the few positives on the roster, and so it troubles me that he is not welcome.

Isn't it a bit of an assumption to say that "he is not welcome"?  Do you know if he was forced out or if he decided to leave on his own?

[RamzNY]

Why would anyone say Lance Brown is not welcome? This has been suggested by no one. Lance is looking to go to a program that is ready to win now (albeit in a lower rated conference).

[John]

I agree. I just am getting a gut feeling that he may not be able to do this. We have yet to hear an A10-level name even associated/rumored  with TP. As I have said, I'm a fan of Brown; he was one of the few positives on the roster, and so it troubles me that he is not welcome.

I doubt Pecora told Lance he "wasn't welcome".  It's probably a combination of factors. A lot of these kids pushed hard for Grasso to get the job, and he didn't get it. Maybe they feel the players don't have a voice. Then Pecora is a different personality than Grasso, probably more of an authority figure/disciplinarian than a buddy/support system kind of guy. And let's face it, his job is largely to "recruit over" as many of these players as he can. With all that, playing ball for Fordham couldn't have been too much fun this past year, with all the turmoil, and especially for Lance, who spent a lot of time guarding, and getting battered by, 6-6 kids who outweighed him by 50 pounds, while trying to hold a surgically repaired knee together. [He might also have looked around at other A-10 teams during Fordham's 0-16 season, and concluded that he didn't belong, or couldn't prosper, at this level].  So what does Pecora have to offer him? More blood, sweat and strain, probably another two years of losing ball, all while carrying an academically challenging load.

Lance wasn't one of those whiny kids (and we've had a few) who pout whenever things don't go right. I suspect his decision was less a running off than a reasoned decision based on a lot of factors.

What we REALLY need -- and, gosh, we haven't had many of these types the last decade -- is a kid with a warrior mentality, who looks the coach in the eye and says "I won't just meet your requirements, I'll exceed them, and I'll be one of the guys you can build this program on!"  Hopefully, when the team steps back onto the court in November, we'll have a couple of kids with that mentality.

[FU85]

john,
     I agree 100% we need some warriors. I remember watching coop and roberson constanly battle against bigger guys because bona was out and they played hard all the time. Where are those guys now?

[unclenorbert]

In reading the various recent threads, I notice all the discussion is about the effect of the coaching change on our recruiting efforts, which is certainly very topical and the most visible.  However, recruiting is only one part of the picture, right?

How do folks feel about our new coach's ability to, you know, coach?  For example, once the players are in house, how well will he teach them?  Will they get better each year?  How well will the team be prepared for the season, and each game?  finally, how well designed will the offense and defense be, and how well will our players execute?  Oh, and will the team be fighters and never give up no matter the situation, or will it somehow accept that certain losses seem inevitable and end up losing by 30 points or more, or winning 5 games over 2 years (neither of which should happen to almost any team, regardless of disparities in talent, unless the opposing institutions are simply mismatched, like, say, Davidson and Kansas.

Thoughts?  

[rambacker]

Tom Pecora runs a half court set on offense and will run opportunistically. This may not be as attractive to many recruits as an all-out high octane offensive system, but it plays well in the tournament and post-season stage, as most games end up being tighter defensive struggles at that point and settle into half-court affairs.  He plays a 3 guard system a lot too, similar to Jay Wright's at Villanova.  Defensively he is known for doing a good job with disguising changing defenses.  This will also help us, as we all know defense wins championships when push comes to shove.  He is a coach that needs to recruit the right type of kid for his system.  Tough defenders that can handle, shoot, rebound and play smart are ideal in his system.

[LXRF]

Tom Pecora runs a half court set on offense and will run opportunistically. This may not be as attractive to many recruits as an all-out high octane offensive system, but it plays well in the tournament and post-season stage, as most games end up being tighter defensive struggles at that point and settle into half-court affairs.  He plays a 3 guard system a lot too, similar to Jay Wright's at Villanova.  Defensively he is known for doing a good job with disguising changing defenses.  This will also help us, as we all know defense wins championships when push comes to shove.  He is a coach that needs to recruit the right type of kid for his system.  Tough defenders that can handle, shoot, rebound and play smart are ideal in his system.

Didn't Lance Brown fit the description in your last sentence?

[fholbr]

Didn't Lance Brown fit the description in your last sentence?

I actually think that Eastwick is a better fit to Pecora's system as the Third guard.
Half court is a more disciplined system and I am not sure that Brown would be a good fit for
him.

[RC74]

"Wasn't welcome" may have been poor choice of words on my part. But as was discussed earlier, the people here "in the know" spoke of "frank and brutal' (or words to that effect) discussions in relation to the news that Lance was leaving. You can play all the semantic games in the world, but it's hard not to conclude that the new coach was not in favor of Lance's staying. Until then, every indication was that Lance was very loyal to Fordham and wanted to stay. Considering he was 1 of only 3 or 4 players last year who seemed able to cut it in the A10, I sure hope TP has an immediate recruit who can match his talent. Perhaps Frasier is; based on what I've read, I doubt it.

[high school hoops]

Tom Pecora runs a half court set on offense and will run opportunistically. This may not be as attractive to many recruits as an all-out high octane offensive system, but it plays well in the tournament and post-season stage, as most games end up being tighter defensive struggles at that point and settle into half-court affairs.  He plays a 3 guard system a lot too, similar to Jay Wright's at Villanova.  Defensively he is known for doing a good job with disguising changing defenses.  This will also help us, as we all know defense wins championships when push comes to shove.  He is a coach that needs to recruit the right type of kid for his system.  Tough defenders that can handle, shoot, rebound and play smart are ideal in his system.

RB, that is all right on the money. That being said,  while some high school kids may not really like to play in this system, the Duke/Butler game showed a lot of people that this style is how you win tough games in the tournament. The wide open/push/press run style of game almost always results in a sub par result every three or four games. It also relies on high percentage shooting to set up its defenses, as well as tremendous defensive rebounders. As it is highly unlikely that we are ever going to get many top level athletes who are also four star or greater players, I think the Pecora approach to the game gives us a far better chance to be good in the long run and on a consistent basis. I also do believe that if we are fortunate to obtain the right talent, Pecora would adapt his style to a more up tempo game.

[ace93]

"Wasn't welcome" may have been poor choice of words on my part. But as was discussed earlier, the people here "in the know" spoke of "frank and brutal' (or words to that effect) discussions in relation to the news that Lance was leaving. You can play all the semantic games in the world, but it's hard not to conclude that the new coach was not in favor of Lance's staying. Until then, every indication was that Lance was very loyal to Fordham and wanted to stay. Considering he was 1 of only 3 or 4 players last year who seemed able to cut it in the A10, I sure hope TP has an immediate recruit who can match his talent. Perhaps Frasier is; based on what I've read, I doubt it.

I am hearing on good authority that academics were a huge factor in this situation.  I think your conclusions are still a bit presumptuous.  We will likely never know all the details due to the privacy act among other things, but we have to keep in mind that it leads to hearing comments from the player/student and no rebuttal/explanation from the coach/university.

[uncram]

Academics is not the problem at all! Lance Brown is not the 3.0 student but is very responsible and works well with the academic staff
to get the support he has needed to be successful.

It is evident that TP didn't want him and is moving in the direction he wants with the players that fit his system which has been discussed in other messages!

Hey he is the coach! We will see how it works out! I just don't know if Brandon Frazier or Lamont Samuels are the answers immediately! He is just starting fresh with his guys and building the program with them!
   

[ace93]

I don't want to turn this into a he said, she said and I am certainly not going to finish most of my sentences with an exclamation point in order to stress what I heard, but I believe what I heard to be true.

[rambacker]

I don't want to turn this into a he said, she said and I am certainly not going to finish most of my sentences with an exclamation point in order to stress what I heard, but I believe what I heard to be true.

To use a much overused word, this process when a new coach takes over a Div. 1 program is generally organic.  The players that fit the new coach's system and needs, are keeping up academically and mesh well from a personal standpoint will remain part of the program.  Those that don't will move on.  This is the necessary process to reset the program and move forward.  That is what is happening now.  It's time to put our support behind Coach Pecora and move on.  Once again, patience is the operative word.  Lord, when will this program settle in and be successful?  It's been one long haul for many of us.

[connram99]

Brown tweeted a couple of weeks ago about cheating on a theology test. If he had to cheat in that class, more stringent subjects must have been challenging.

[ace93]

Brown tweeted a couple of weeks ago about cheating on a theology test. If he had to cheat in that class, more stringent subjects must have been challenging.

Beats cheating in an ethics class.