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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2012, 12:01:18 pm »

thought Frank was member of Bonnie Briar?
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2012, 12:24:21 pm »

My comment was bout CU not K Ross.

And my comments were about FU (specifically, Jack Stephans and Dave Rice). Apples to apples, whore-wise.  Grin
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2012, 01:07:48 pm »

And my comments were about FU (specifically, Jack Stephans and Dave Rice). Apples to apples, whore-wise.  Grin

Boom goes the dynamite
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2012, 02:14:30 pm »

This statement is not correct.  Pecora and Gray addressed the facilites issue.  They said we are not building new facilities and we are going to play some games off campus.  That may not be what we wanted to hear, but it could not have been made any clearer, there will be no arena, end of story.  The only issue is where we will play off campus and how many games.  As for where, it looks like Pecora won that battle as we will be playing at least one game at the Barclays.  The how many games is still open for debate.


Saying you're not going to address the problem is not, in my judgment, addressing the problem. The lack of adequate campus facilities is still a problem. If it is not a priority for the Administration, perhaps it should be (even if not a first-tier priority).

And as we have seen, the "play on campus and some games off" strategy remains in the dithering stage. We had the abortive Izod thing two seasons back, essentially nothing this past year, and at a time we should be putting together a conference package at the Barclay's to tie in with the A-10 tournament being there, the administrators are still talking Izod (and we should be excited to play Princeton in the Barc as part of a doubleheader?)

I've got no problem with an RHG-and-big-arena split, we were doing that decades ago. I do think failing to take decisive action soon will be extremely damaging to this program, if not fatal to its chances to remain/compete in the A-10.
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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2012, 02:17:10 pm »

(and we should be excited to play Princeton in the Barc as part of a doubleheader?)

Are you saying we should not be excited about that game?
Or b/c it's not enough, b/c it's Princeton, b/c it's a doubleheader or a combo of those?
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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2012, 02:42:18 pm »

(and we should be excited to play Princeton in the Barc as part of a doubleheader?)

[/quote]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Barc and the Rams playing a few games there with anybody.  MSG has been @ since 1968 and we all know about the RHG.  It will be good to see what a state-of-the-art facility looks like, and it should help raise the bar for the older venues. 
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« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2012, 02:59:37 pm »

Saying you're not going to address the problem is not, in my judgment, addressing the problem. The lack of adequate campus facilities is still a problem. If it is not a priority for the Administration, perhaps it should be (even if not a first-tier priority).

And as we have seen, the "play on campus and some games off" strategy remains in the dithering stage. We had the abortive Izod thing two seasons back, essentially nothing this past year, and at a time we should be putting together a conference package at the Barclay's to tie in with the A-10 tournament being there, the administrators are still talking Izod (and we should be excited to play Princeton in the Barc as part of a doubleheader?)

I've got no problem with an RHG-and-big-arena split, we were doing that decades ago. I do think failing to take decisive action soon will be extremely damaging to this program, if not fatal to its chances to remain/compete in the A-10.

What you are saying above is a lot different than your statement that Pecora is under orders to not publicly comment on the facilities issue.  That is simply not true, he commented on it and so did Gray.  There is no arena coming, it is not a priority so there is no sense in discussing it.  You keep saying that no on campus facility is a problem, I agree, but the administration does not agree.  They do not think it matters, so through Gray they made it clear, no new arena period end of story. 

We did not play any games off campus this year because we are one of the worst teams in the nation and we had a better chance of winning games at RHG.  We will not play conference games in the Barc next year, because we are the last place team in the A-10 and it is more important to win games than play in an empty arena, that is the cold hard reality of the situation.  It is not dithering, it getting the team competitive so we actually have enough people who want to go and see us play in the Barc.  We are a part of a double header because there is no way we get enough people to go and see us play a game like Princeton in the Barc on our own.   The reality of the situation is that we were a last place team this year and we need to win games, and our best chance to do that is to play games at RHG.

As for the IZOD, Pecora already made it clear he does not want to play there and appears to have won that battle.  This says to me that when it comes to basketball, Pecora is calling the shots not Jeff Gray.  That is a good thing. 

This thread is just another bitch fest about Frank and it is old news, there is nothing new.  The time line of Frank's tenure has been told and retold over the past decade so many times it has been handed down to a new generation of Fordham fans.  It is useless. 
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« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2012, 04:28:43 pm »

Rich, I don't get your complaint.  At this time of year - as usual - Fordham Fans have nothing to cheer about.  We can look at other Jesuit schools still playing. We can watch similar or better academic institutions still dancing.  And we ain't got squat.  Maybe there are one or two newbies who are interested as to why we continue to be on the outside looking in.  Maybe it's just therapy for some of us to identify the villains...again.  You don't have to read this thread.  You can write about Peyton and NFL contracts. I, for one, want it out there very clearly who the people are who are responsible for all these years of frustration and failure.
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« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2012, 04:38:57 pm »

I, for one, want it out there very clearly who the people are who are responsible for all these years of frustration and failure.

That's fine and well, but it is not Helloto Frank.  Wink
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« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2012, 04:45:12 pm »

Rich, I don't get your complaint.  At this time of year - as usual - Fordham Fans have nothing to cheer about.  We can look at other Jesuit schools still playing. We can watch similar or better academic institutions still dancing.  And we ain't got squat.  Maybe there are one or two newbies who are interested as to why we continue to be on the outside looking in.  Maybe it's just therapy for some of us to identify the villains...again.  You don't have to read this thread.  You can write about Peyton and NFL contracts. I, for one, want it out there very clearly who the people are who are responsible for all these years of frustration and failure.

The only reason I commented on this thread was because John said that Pecora was on orders to not talk about the facilities, that is simply wrong.  He talked them and Gray talked about them.  After that I commented that I did not see the purpose of another Frank thread and I stand by the statement.  It makes no sense.  My second post was mostly in response to John's statement about our not playing enough games off campus.  The last sentence once again expressed my surprise that people think that the Frank story is somehow new and needs to be told over and over and over. 
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« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2012, 04:45:59 pm »

Are you saying we should not be excited about that game?
Or b/c it's not enough, b/c it's Princeton, b/c it's a doubleheader or a combo of those?

Because it's not enough. We should be embracing the Barc, declaring it our "A-10 home away from home" and scheduling some of the bigger, better A-10 opponents there.  We should be trying to put our stamp on the place instead of just sticking a toe in the water, which is what a Princeton half of a DH suggests. [I stand ready to be happily corrected, should such games be in the works]. When St. John's first sets foot in the place, it should be as our guests.

Pecora has shown we can win at home. Now let's do it in a bigger home.
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« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2012, 04:53:59 pm »

Because it's not enough. We should be embracing the Barc, declaring it our "A-10 home away from home" and scheduling some of the bigger, better A-10 opponents there.  We should be trying to put our stamp on the place instead of just sticking a toe in the water, which is what a Princeton half of a DH suggests. [I stand ready to be happily corrected, should such games be in the works]. When St. John's first sets foot in the place, it should be as our guests.

Pecora has shown we can win at home. Now let's do it in a bigger home.

I disagree with playing any A10 opponents there.  That is the key to our season and I think we should work on getting out of the cellar before making a step to play our conference games elsewhere.  Otherwise, I agree that more games there makes sense.
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« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2012, 05:02:54 pm »

...  This says to me that when it comes to basketball, Pecora is calling the shots not Jeff Gray.  That is a good thing. 
Most definitely!
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« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2012, 06:09:31 pm »

I disagree with playing any A10 opponents there.  That is the key to our season and I think we should work on getting out of the cellar before making a step to play our conference games elsewhere.  Otherwise, I agree that more games there makes sense.

Disagree. That's using the place as a crutch. We're not beating any A-10 foes on the home floor that we wouldn't likely beat on a different home floor.  Look at our home record against A-10 teams since we've been in the conference, and it's hard to make an argument that the RHG court is the key to winning anything.

It's also sending the wrong message to the A-10. It's saying "we're never gonna grow up!", we're going to stay small time, and we're going to make you come into our little bandbox because you have to!" It does nothing but breed resentment and cement our position as small-timers.  I think getting our marquee games into a bigger arena is likely to build the program faster than just trying to cadge a win or two out of our bandbox every season.

But that's just me.
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« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2012, 06:49:47 pm »

At this point I think the program needs to do what gives us the best chance to win games. Taking a cue from the football topics and opening with Lock Haven, a win is a win, and if we have a better chance of winning at RHG (or more to the point if the coach thinks that), then that is where we should play conference games until we can create a marque game in conference at the Barc because it means something. Meaningless conference games at the Barc will become even more of a home game for the visitors.
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« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2012, 08:41:46 pm »

Disagree. That's using the place as a crutch. We're not beating any A-10 foes on the home floor that we wouldn't likely beat on a different home floor.  Look at our home record against A-10 teams since we've been in the conference, and it's hard to make an argument that the RHG court is the key to winning anything.

It's also sending the wrong message to the A-10. It's saying "we're never gonna grow up!", we're going to stay small time, and we're going to make you come into our little bandbox because you have to!" It does nothing but breed resentment and cement our position as small-timers.  I think getting our marquee games into a bigger arena is likely to build the program faster than just trying to cadge a win or two out of our bandbox every season.

But that's just me.

But here's the Jesuitical answer: find something in between.  Schedule a bunch of big-time money makers in the big venue, and then stick in the "come play in our little snake pit if you're man enough" challenge match at RHG. 

You need to have two things to do this: some success, and some creative, forward-thinking AD work.

You need an attitude and an approach to both the team and the marketing.  Calipari (for whatever you think of him) got UMass to the pinnacle of success with an attitude of "anytime, anywhere."  And it worked (at least until the prosecutors caught up). And I think that's what TP is trying to do with "NY Style" except so far it's pretty thin soup and needs a 21st century marketing approach.
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« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2012, 09:00:56 pm »

We need to play 3 major OOC games in the Barclay Center next season. Good candidates for those games would be top ACC, Big 10 or SEC opponents.  That will help recruiting, our RPI, and build media coverage with YES televising those games.  All A-10 games should be played in the Rose Hill Gym to give us the best chance to make the A-10 Tournament, which is the next step for our program.  And by-the-way, the A-10 Tournament is in the Barclay Center next season.
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« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2012, 09:06:07 pm »

But here's the Jesuitical answer: find something in between.  Schedule a bunch of big-time money makers in the big venue, and then stick in the "come play in our little snake pit if you're man enough" challenge match at RHG. 

You need to have two things to do this: some success, and some creative, forward-thinking AD work.

You need an attitude and an approach to both the team and the marketing.  Calipari (for whatever you think of him) got UMass to the pinnacle of success with an attitude of "anytime, anywhere."  And it worked (at least until the prosecutors caught up). And I think that's what TP is trying to do with "NY Style" except so far it's pretty thin soup and needs a 21st century marketing approach.

Our own PJ Carlesimo also played the "anytime, anywhere" card well at Seton Hall.  He played some top teams when the Pirates were at the same level as St. Peter's, and his recruits watched, saw the opportunity for playing time and to play at the highest level, and jumped on board to end up in a National Championship game.
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« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2012, 10:45:10 pm »

Disagree. That's using the place as a crutch. We're not beating any A-10 foes on the home floor that we wouldn't likely beat on a different home floor.  Look at our home record against A-10 teams since we've been in the conference, and it's hard to make an argument that the RHG court is the key to winning anything.

It's also sending the wrong message to the A-10. It's saying "we're never gonna grow up!", we're going to stay small time, and we're going to make you come into our little bandbox because you have to!" It does nothing but breed resentment and cement our position as small-timers.  I think getting our marquee games into a bigger arena is likely to build the program faster than just trying to cadge a win or two out of our bandbox every season.

But that's just me.

My biggest issue is the partiality of the whole thing.  A home court advantage is an advantage for a reason.  I think a big reason is familiarity and routine.  That's lost if we play some games here, some there and some neither here, nor there, but somewhere else.   Grin

I can think of several big conference wins since we joined the A10 that I felt our home crowd was very influential.  Not sure there is a way to prove that one way or the other though, that's why it's hard to make the argument, but I think it is hard to argue otherwise as well.
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« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2012, 07:18:54 am »

My comment was bout CU not K Ross.  Ross was a victim of the university i.e., after using up his eligibility he literally had to go to grammar school to leran how to read & write.

Whatever the fball players did, they were not victims but presumably perps.  Big difference.

If ineligible players are on the field, as was charged at the time, the University was responsible for clearing them to play.  I'm not sure an 18 year old kid in 1978 is responsible for policing eligibility.
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« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2012, 07:22:54 am »

We need to play 3 major OOC games in the Barclay Center next season. Good candidates for those games would be top ACC, Big 10 or SEC opponents.  That will help recruiting, our RPI, and build media coverage with YES televising those games.  All A-10 games should be played in the Rose Hill Gym to give us the best chance to make the A-10 Tournament, which is the next step for our program.  And by-the-way, the A-10 Tournament is in the Barclay Center next season.

This strategy is a good place to start.  At the very least, though we need to be competitive in the games.  If the first game is a blow out, you can forget about the rest.  By the way, Princeton IS NOT a major OOC opponent.
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« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2012, 08:06:21 am »

If ineligible players are on the field, as was charged at the time, the University was responsible for clearing them to play.  I'm not sure an 18 year old kid in 1978 is responsible for policing eligibility.
My assumption was that the reference to the fball program related to player misbehavior.  If the reference related to eligibility, I agree it was a Fordham just like the welding certificate scandal at Bona.
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« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2012, 08:31:56 am »

My assumption was that the reference to the fball program related to player misbehavior.  If the reference related to eligibility, I agree it was a Fordham just like the welding certificate scandal at Bona.


Sounds good.  I for one am very proud of my welding certificate! Wink
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« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2012, 09:41:03 am »

We need to play 3 major OOC games in the Barclay Center next season. Good candidates for those games would be top ACC, Big 10 or SEC opponents.  That will help recruiting, our RPI, and build media coverage with YES televising those games.  All A-10 games should be played in the Rose Hill Gym to give us the best chance to make the A-10 Tournament, which is the next step for our program.  And by-the-way, the A-10 Tournament is in the Barclay Center next season.

This I could live with.  Big named opponents would mean bigger crowds (Fordham and opponent fans) and we still give ourselves the best chance to win conference games next year which is priority number 1. 
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« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2012, 09:51:37 am »

But here's the Jesuitical answer: find something in between.  Schedule a bunch of big-time money makers in the big venue, and then stick in the "come play in our little snake pit if you're man enough" challenge match at RHG. 

You need to have two things to do this: some success, and some creative, forward-thinking AD work.

You need an attitude and an approach to both the team and the marketing.  Calipari (for whatever you think of him) got UMass to the pinnacle of success with an attitude of "anytime, anywhere."  And it worked (at least until the prosecutors caught up). And I think that's what TP is trying to do with "NY Style" except so far it's pretty thin soup and needs a 21st century marketing approach.

+1

And its up to Pecora to bring in the basketball talent.    Cheesy
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« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2012, 10:58:27 am »

I could see playing 3-4 OOC games at the Barc as a start. The main thing is to put our stamp on the place, to try to lay claim to home rights at NYC's first new arena in a half century. Playing some A-10 games there makes sense just because of the marketing tie-in with the A-10 tournament -- let's say SLU and Xavier, or Temple (1 last time) and Richmond. If the RHG were to become a real "pit" for opponents, we'd still be left with a money-losing pit over the long term.

Pecora's job is to get and coach the kids who can win these games. But our AD should be thinking about how to have this "marquee" (cough, cough) program make more revenue for the school. There's a whole marketing side to having a successful program that's not being managed (even if Julio could expand his horizons and find some seafood restaurant in Brooklyn to become our official sponsor for the Barc).

I think that Pecora "gets" marketing, and sadly, his nominal bosses do not. But TP's got enough on his plate.
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« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2012, 11:18:19 am »

If we do play home conference games away from the RHG, no way should Temple be one of those teams.  Make them come to the RHG one last time.  They will never step foot into the RHG again.  Let them enjoy it one last time.
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« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2012, 11:19:05 am »

We need to play 3 major OOC games in the Barclay Center next season. Good candidates for those games would be top ACC, Big 10 or SEC opponents.  That will help recruiting, our RPI, and build media coverage with YES televising those games.  All A-10 games should be played in the Rose Hill Gym to give us the best chance to make the A-10 Tournament, which is the next step for our program.  And by-the-way, the A-10 Tournament is in the Barclay Center next season.

I think this is a good step. BC and Maryland would seem to be programs we could reach out to for Barclays games (you can add Syracuse and Pitt to that once they leave the Big East). I don't think BC has played in NY since they left the conference.
Remember though that big-six conference schools have to look at the big picture in scheduling a game like this. Despite the lure of the big arena, we are still an RPI drag for a big school (they'll help our RPI, we won't do the same). And arenas now (this includes the Garden) can schedule games without any local interest. Notice that Michigan and WVU are playing each other in that doubleheader, not each playing a local team.
We have to show the Barc the benefits to having us, and be a bit aggressive in trying to schedule. I don't think that even if we had access to the Barc that big conference schools will just start lining up to play us.
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« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2012, 11:40:18 am »

A thread about: 1. Frank    2. A new arena..........


Impressive.  Evil


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« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2012, 12:02:11 pm »

If we do play home conference games away from the RHG, no way should Temple be one of those teams.  Make them come to the RHG one last time.  They will never step foot into the RHG again.  Let them enjoy it one last time.

Good point. Too bad Cheney still isn't coaching them.
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