Transfers En Masse (not in mass, duh) at Duquesne

[RamVan]

Can't deny a lot of big time programs wanted this kid. On the other hand, he couldn't crack the Iowa State rotation this season. And with Michigan State transfer Korie Lucious coming in next year, Sledge might not have even gotten 8 minutes of PT in the coming season.

That being said, he might be a decent guard in the MAAC. Would he be an effective guard in the A-10? Much less likely. In the MAAC, your "easy" games are against the likes of St. Peter's and Marist. In the A-10, the competition is a lot tougher.

Still, yet another move that cements Iona's reputation as the school for people who realize their limitations.

I think you have to take each player individually.  Look at Luis Flores for example, he played limited minutes at Rutgers, transfers to Manhattan College and had a great 3 years over there and by his senior season he was one of the leading scorers in the country.    You're telling me Flores couldn't play for any A10 program?  I would say he would have started for most of them with similar success as he had at MC.  A good player is a good player.  

Look at Iona, do you think Glover, Machado (he wasn't a transfer), and Jones couldn't hack it in the A10?  

At the same time, you do have kids that transfer from bigger programs who just never make it even at a lower level from where they came.  Iona did have a player under Ruland who transferred in from Syracuse (I believe his name was Williams) who was a disaster and you also have Jacob Green for us who never panned out.  But, then you also have guys who may have been overlooked in High School, go to a smaller school and then transfer to a bigger program and do well.  Seth Curry from Liberty to Duke, Heshimu Evans from Manhattan to Kentucky, CJ Anderson from MC to Xavier, etc etc.  

[ace93]

$600K, albeit 7 years, only tends underscore how much we over-paid Pecora 2 years ago. 

More years, cheaper area to live in, much bigger jump in salary for Ferry I would think.

[John]

I think you have to take each player individually.  Look at Luis Flores for example, he played limited minutes at Rutgers, transfers to Manhattan College and had a great 3 years over there and by his senior season he was one of the leading scorers in the country.    You're telling me Flores couldn't play for any A10 program?  I would say he would have started for most of them with similar success as he had at MC.  A good player is a good player.  

Look at Iona, do you think Glover, Machado (he wasn't a transfer), and Jones couldn't hack it in the A10?  

At the same time, you do have kids that transfer from bigger programs who just never make it even at a lower level from where they came.  Iona did have a player under Ruland who transferred in from Syracuse (I believe his name was Williams) who was a disaster and you also have Jacob Green for us who never panned out.  But, then you also have guys who may have been overlooked in High School, go to a smaller school and then transfer to a bigger program and do well.  Seth Curry from Liberty to Duke, Heshimu Evans from Manhattan to Kentucky, CJ Anderson from MC to Xavier, etc etc.  

Totally agree, and maybe Sledge will work out at Iona. I just think we've got to stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth every time some transfer decides not to come to Fordham. Fact is, Pecora's a mature coach who knows what he wants in a kid. If a kid is talented but Pecora doesn't like him for any number of reasons -- most having nothing to do with basketball -- he'll pass on him. Pecora works on trust. Case in point -- Hassan Martin of Curtis HS in Staten Island. Pecora knows and trusts his HS coach, has gotten other under-the-radar players from that school (Halil Kanacevic comes to mind, and he was only the A-10's leading rebounder this past season).

In this way, he's not unlike Tom Penders, who went out and recruited a certain type of "Penders kid". When they came in, people would ask "who are these guys?" Once they hit the court, it became obvious they were tough guys who could play and wouldn't back down.

I think it we can hit .500 or better next season, it will be a turning point for TP2's recruiting. Let's see.

[ace93]

John, I'm not clear on what you are saying about Hassan Martin.

[Rich93]

Totally agree, and maybe Sledge will work out at Iona. I just think we've got to stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth every time some transfer decides not to come to Fordham. Fact is, Pecora's a mature coach who knows what he wants in a kid. If a kid is talented but Pecora doesn't like him for any number of reasons -- most having nothing to do with basketball -- he'll pass on him.

+1.  The obsession over one player who played all of 8 minutes last year and will not play one minute this year makes me laugh out loud.

[Rich93]

He did the same thing bringing Chris Gaston and Jio Fontan to Fordham.  Any way you look at it, the guy can recruit.

You cannot compare his recruiting at Fordham and Iona.  Bottom line is that Iona is building its entire program on JUCOs and transfers.  As far as I can tell the only freshman he recruited that will play any minutes at Iona is Armand.  I am torn on this approach, on the one hand it is a way to get good quick if you get the right kids (we got a good one in Bristol).  On the other, your entire team is made up of guys who basically play 2 years and then are gone (I think Sledge has 3 years but he is exception on this team).  It gives the team more of a mercenary feel to it.  One or two guys is fine, but when it is the whole team it makes it tough to think of players as part of the university.  In the end, if it would get us to the tournamnet I would sign up for it but I would prefer to have a team full of 4 year players.     

[rambacker]

You cannot compare his recruiting at Fordham and Iona.  Bottom line is that Iona is building its entire program on JUCOs and transfers.  As far as I can tell the only freshman he recruited that will play any minutes at Iona is Armand.  I am torn on this approach, on the one hand it is a way to get good quick if you get the right kids (we got a good one in Bristol).  On the other, your entire team is made up of guys who basically play 2 years and then are gone (I think Sledge has 3 years but he is exception on this team).  It gives the team more of a mercenary feel to it.  One or two guys is fine, but when it is the whole team it makes it tough to think of players as part of the university.  In the end, if it would get us to the tournamnet I would sign up for it but I would prefer to have a team full of 4 year players.     

It's actually very easy to compare his recruiting at Fordham and Iona.  

Jared Grasso is doing what he thinks is necessary to elevate the Iona program, and he would never get Sledge, Mike Glover or MoMo Jones directly out of high school.  8 out the 12 players on the Iona roster came in as freshman recruited out of high school.  The transfer players there are very talented and Iona made the NCAA Tournament this year, so it's hard to argue with that recruiting philosophy in the short term.  This has been done in other programs before, with the recruitment of high-level transfers being used to leverage the recruitment of higher level high school players, then settling into a pattern of recruiting mostly high school players.  

At Fordham, I would rather see us recruit from the ground up with high school players, but every program is different and I don't fault Iona for taking this approach.

[Rich93]

It's actually very easy to compare his recruiting at Fordham and Iona.  

Jared Grasso is doing what he thinks is necessary to elevate the Iona program, and he would never get Sledge, Mike Glover or MoMo Jones directly out of high school.  8 out the 12 players on the Iona roster came in as freshman recruited out of high school.  The transfer players there are very talented and Iona made the NCAA Tournament this year, so it's hard to argue with that recruiting philosophy in the short term.  This has been done in other programs before, with the recruitment of high-level transfers being used to leverage the recruitment of higher level high school players, then settling into a pattern of recruiting mostly high school players.  

At Fordham, I would rather see us recruit from the ground up with high school players, but every program is different and I don't fault Iona for taking this approach.

I did not fault them, it is a different approach.  As for the 8 out of 12 for last year that is because, other than Armand and Gomez, those kids were Willard hold overs and I actually think it was 6-12 but am not totally sure.  Next year only 3 players who came in as freshmen will be on this roster, Armand, Gomez and Ellis, a freshman forward.  The rest of the team will be made up of transfers (2 Momo and Sledge) and Jucos unless they bring in some more freshmen this year with whatever spots they have left.  The first year he was there he recruited 4 guys, 3 were coming in as freshmen, two of them James and Kesic did not  make it to their sophomorre year.  The next year the only guy they brought in who was a freshmen was this kid Gomez who did not see any time and if I had to guess will not play at all this year either. The other 4 were made up of 3 JUCOs and 1 transfer (MoMo). So far this year they are bringing in 5 guys, 1 freshmen, 3 JUCOS and a transfer.  They are not recruitng highschool players, they are going pure JUCO/transfer route.  You canont discount this fact when comparing his recruiting at Iona to Fordham.  They are using a different strategy, it is certainly a quick fix but it has the potential to back fire.  It worked out great last year but that is because they had 2 NBA players on the roster in Machado and Glover.  It will be interesting to see what happens now that they are gone. 

Its actually interesting to look at their recruiting here is the list on ESPN where I got all of this information:

http://espn.go.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/314/class/2012

[85]

Transfers  ( non JUCO ) have been tricky for us over the years.

Good:

Mo Curtis-WVU-best of the best
Mark Taylor- Assumption- transfer up, solid player
Derrick Breland- BU- not too bad, held us over at guard.
Chris DiMascio-St, Joes-good 3 point shooter
Corey MCCrae-Wagner- decent overall guard
Nick Vita-Ca Santa Cruz-decent contributor


Bad:

Mark Jarrell Wright-Providence-never seemed to do anything
David Mascia- LSU- bust ( despite one good year ).
Bobby Frain- TCU- bust, completely.
Jacob Green- WVU- bust, completely.
Mike Goodman-PITT-beyond a bust, never played.


As to IONA, good for them, if they can succeed with transfers, go for it.  They have done a nice job over the years with transfers.  Im no Grasso fan but if the guy is winning games for them with big time transfers, then he is doing something right, you can't deny him that.

[PA Ram]

Marlon Smith, Demetrious Philips?

[rambacker]

I did not fault them, it is a different approach.  As for the 8 out of 12 for last year that is because, other than Armand and Gomez, those kids were Willard hold overs and I actually think it was 6-12 but am not totally sure.  Next year only 3 players who came in as freshmen will be on this roster, Armand, Gomez and Ellis, a freshman forward.  The rest of the team will be made up of transfers (2 Momo and Sledge) and Jucos unless they bring in some more freshmen this year with whatever spots they have left.  The first year he was there he recruited 4 guys, 3 were coming in as freshmen, two of them James and Kesic did not  make it to their sophomorre year.  The next year the only guy they brought in who was a freshmen was this kid Gomez who did not see any time and if I had to guess will not play at all this year either. The other 4 were made up of 3 JUCOs and 1 transfer (MoMo). So far this year they are bringing in 5 guys, 1 freshmen, 3 JUCOS and a transfer.  They are not recruitng highschool players, they are going pure JUCO/transfer route.  You canont discount this fact when comparing his recruiting at Iona to Fordham.  They are using a different strategy, it is certainly a quick fix but it has the potential to back fire.  It worked out great last year but that is because they had 2 NBA players on the roster in Machado and Glover.  It will be interesting to see what happens now that they are gone. 

Its actually interesting to look at their recruiting here is the list on ESPN where I got all of this information:

http://espn.go.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/314/class/2012

It was 8 out of 12 high school players on their roster this past season.

7 of 13 players on the Iona roster next season will be jucos.  The others will be players recruited out of high school, as the rest of the kids they are trying to recruit are high school players.  My take on the coaches at Iona are they are trying to build an NCAA tourney resume asap so they can move on to better jobs.

[ace93]

Marlon Smith, Demetrious Philips?

Marlon Smith and Devon Greene (formerly Devon Evertson) never saw action and were definite busts. I believe you meant Devon Greene when you mentioned Demetrious Phillips.

[85]

Damn, I knew I would forgot a few! 

[PA Ram]

Marlon Smith and Devon Greene (formerly Devon Evertson) never saw action and were definite busts. I believe you meant Devon Greene when you mentioned Demetrious Phillips.

Yes.  Where did I get Phillips from? 

Thanks

[Rich93]

It was 8 out of 12 high school players on their roster this past season.

7 of 13 players on the Iona roster next season will be jucos.  The others will be players recruited out of high school, as the rest of the kids they are trying to recruit are high school players.  My take on the coaches at Iona are they are trying to build an NCAA tourney resume asap so they can move on to better jobs.

I agree on your last sentence.  the only kids they got as freshmen that will be on the roster next year that I know of are Armand Gomez and Ellis (freshman next year).  Who are the other 3? 

[ace93]

Yes.  Where did I get Phillips from? 

Thanks

Well, Phillips was another bust, though he came in the second semester as a freshman due to some clearinghouse issue. Came in with Bethel, both saw action in their first game against Manhattan despite having not practiced yet. Had a nice dunk, not sure he did much after that. I think he had some academic struggles and eventually transferred to Bridgeport.

[rambacker]

I agree on your last sentence.  the only kids they got as freshmen that will be on the roster next year that I know of are Armand Gomez and Ellis (freshman next year).  Who are the other 3? 

They are recruiting a slew of high school players.  Check the recruting sites.

[John]

John, I'm not clear on what you are saying about Hassan Martin.

Just meant to say that Pecora's been assiduously recruiting the kid. He's class of '13.

[RickFC77]

Why is it that Tom Pecora, our Head Coach, gets blamed for his recruits while none of that blame falls onto the shoulders of his assistants, yet Grasso, an assistant coach at Iona, gets the credit for their recruiting successes but the Head Coach, Tim Cluess, gets none of the credit? 

[85]

I think Dave Duke is very under the gun for recruiting.  I think the reason that there has not been more heat here et al. is that nobody was really too sure who had taken over the lead recruiting role post Van Macon. I think right now it appears to be the cordial Duke.  Probably had a year or so grace period with Macon's departure.

[Buzz]

Why is it that Tom Pecora, our Head Coach, gets blamed for his recruits while none of that blame falls onto the shoulders of his assistants, yet Grasso, an assistant coach at Iona, gets the credit for their recruiting successes but the Head Coach, Tim Cluess, gets none of the credit? 

Because Grasso is desperately trying to get his name out there, even at the expense of Cluess. Sound familiar? Grasso reminds me of Bobby Gonzalez without the coaching savvy

[Rich93]

They are recruiting a slew of high school players.  Check the recruting sites.

If the recruiting trend stays the same, those 3 ships will likely include at least 2 JUCOs.  We will see what happens.

[B2Bomber]

Transfers  ( non JUCO ) have been tricky for us over the years.

Good:

Mo Curtis-WVU-best of the best
Mark Taylor- Assumption- transfer up, solid player
Derrick Breland- BU- not too bad, held us over at guard.
Chris DiMascio-St, Joes-good 3 point shooter
Corey MCCrae-Wagner- decent overall guard
Nick Vita-Ca Santa Cruz-decent contributor


Bad:

Mark Jarrell Wright-Providence-never seemed to do anything
David Mascia- LSU- bust ( despite one good year ).
Bobby Frain- TCU- bust, completely.
Jacob Green- WVU- bust, completely.
Mike Goodman-PITT-beyond a bust, never played.


As to IONA, good for them, if they can succeed with transfers, go for it.  They have done a nice job over the years with transfers.  Im no Grasso fan but if the guy is winning games for them with big time transfers, then he is doing something right, you can't deny him that.

What that shows me is that we have a very poor coaching staff who can't pick players from bowling pins.

[John]

Well, I'm not saying I'm a fan of building a program on JUCOs, but sometimes I wonder whether a couple of select JUCOs might not be the thing we need to ignite the program and get HS kids interested in coming to Fordham. Case in point is Marquette, where Buzz Williams brought in 2 JUCOS -- Jae Crowder, this year's Big East Player of the Year (2 years) and Darius Johnson-Odom (3 years), who was also All Big East First Team. Since they started playing, Buzz Williams has been recruiting only HS players, and good ones.

Seems to me we are continually stuck in the rut of being a "young team", usually deficient in the muscle department. This past year, it looked like we gave away 15-20 pounds at every position to our A-10 opponents. Sometimes, bringing in a couple of more physically mature JUCO players can make a big difference.  I mean, Damon Lopez was a JUCO, and nobody seems to think he was anything but a real part of the school and student body.  And sometimes, a JUCO is a player who, instead of having so much smoke blown up his butt that his ego gets inflated, has learned a couple of hard lessons about priorities and hard work.

We probably need two or more impact players to jump-start the program. One probably won't do it. For four years, we had Bryant Dunston, who by his upperclass years was unquestionably the best player at any college in NYC, and we couldn't parlay that into anything better. That was largely the fault of DW but mostly of Grank, who couldn't even get Bryant and his colleagues a single game in MSG in his 4 year career (shameful).  Now we have Gaston, who probably again is the best player in the 5 boroughs, and he doesn't seem to be enough to help us turn the corner.

I've never been a fan of building a program around JUCOs, and still am not. But I can see how a couple of well-chosen JUCOs can make a difference for a program.

[Bronx Boy]

For four years, we had Bryant Dunston, who, by his upperclass years, was unquestionably the best player at any college in NYC, and we couldn't parlay that into anything better. That was largely the fault of DW, but mostly, of Grank, who couldn't even get Bryant and his colleagues a single game in MSG in his four year career.  Shameful.  

Shameful indeed, John.  Especially when you consider that, in addition to Dunston, Dee-Dub also had Sebastian Green and Marcus Stout on his roster, both of whom, in addition to Dunston, have been playing b-ball aboard for some time now, and, with much acclaim. 

Shameful indeed !

[SIram]

Why is it that Tom Pecora, our Head Coach, gets blamed for his recruits while none of that blame falls onto the shoulders of his assistants, yet Grasso, an assistant coach at Iona, gets the credit for their recruiting successes but the Head Coach, Tim Cluess, gets none of the credit? 

A very fair point.

I don't understand why Grasso continues to receive so much attention on this board given that he had marginal success as an ass't here, did not do well as our interim HC and has not seemed to be generating much interest as a HC based on his further experience at Iona.

People really need to wish the man well and stop discussing him here ad nauseum on our board, it well past time for us and him to move on

[Vinseiro]

Still, yet another move that cements Iona's reputation as the school for people who realize their limitations.

Very poor form, jumping on a talented kid for joining a successful basketball program with pro prospects and hopefully obtaining a college degree.

We deserve all the ridicule we get for sour grapes comments like this.  I wonder if these kind of comments affect our recruiting.   

[Rich93]

Getting back to Duquesne, does anyone know who is in the running for the head coaching job?  Other than the Kentucky assistant I have not seen any reports on the coaching search. 

[Vinseiro]

Grasso is relevant because he was a finalist for our job.

Kudos to him for another nice get.

While some of you continue hating on him, they'll just keep winning games while we sulk.

[ace93]

Getting back to Duquesne, does anyone know who is in the running for the head coaching job?  Other than the Kentucky assistant I have not seen any reports on the coaching search. 

Further back in this thread I mentioned that reportedly the job has been offered to Jim Ferry of LIU.