Great Article on Stony Brook AD in today's New York Times

[An Old Coach]

I find the timing of this article and Lenn Robbins very interesting.   It appears that there is a not too subtle campaign being advanced via the media . . . which I think is a good thing . . . if no other reason that there is someone (s) out there who has interest in our program, can identify the major stumbling blocks that are now in place (and stumbling is too kind a word) and has enough juice to actually get articles in the major media outlets that highlight the issues.

Unfortunately, I think you're letting your imagination run wild.  I don't think the media cares at all about Fordham or any other local program, really.  I think Stony Brook is a nice story and is certainly a novelty in the New York area.  Unless something really big happens at Stony Brook, like announcing FBS football or a major conference shift, I don't see them being regulars in the local sports sections.

As for Robbins, I think he's so out of touch that he's a waste of time.  He was crediting Frank for being a great advocate for Fordham sports.  I rest my case.

[71]

Unfortunately, I think you're letting your imagination run wild.  I don't think the media cares at all about Fordham or any other local program, really.  I think Stony Brook is a nice story and is certainly a novelty in the New York area.  Unless something really big happens at Stony Brook, like announcing FBS football or a major conference shift, I don't see them being regulars in the local sports sections.

As for Robbins, I think he's so out of touch that he's a waste of time.  He was crediting Frank for being a great advocate for Fordham sports.  I rest my case.

Oh, you're probably right. I just find the timing and emphasis on Fiore interesting, especially if as you say the media doesn't care . . .

[An Old Coach]

Why from an FBS program?  I agree with you entirely except for that one part.

I think coming from a decent FBS program, the guy would most likely have a more diverse background and really solid experience.  Schools playing on that level are in reality running two athletic departments...one for football and one for everything else.  A senior guy at a program like that has been involved in everything.

I think one of the area's where Fordham falls short, after a lack of commitment to being successful, is in the overall administration of the program.  We are still doing things like the 1980's.  A guy coming out of an FBS level program has most likely been involved in operations, marketing, game day experience, fundraising, student development programs, and financial issues.  By necessity, FBS schools have to do these things on a larger scale.  I'm sure there are people who can do the job who aren't with an FBS program but all things being equal, I'd like to see someone with the kind of background.

[85]

Fiore has done the heavy lifting for quite some time.  The last thing we want to do is run and over-pay a guy who might not have that fire in his bellly to do it all over again. Its a Ruthian task and he could be exactly the wrong guy to hire and over-pay and see if he can do it all over again, with 10 years of age and wear on him, he might not be the right guy.  He is the best of the best in the area right now but also reaping the benefits of nearly a decade of hard work. We might need a Fiore from 10 years ago as opposed to a Fiore today.

   

[Ram I Am]

I understand the attraction that poster would have toward Fiore as our next AD, but I don't think there's any shot in the world that he'd come to Fordham.  His next stop is likely to be a high major / BCS type school, and with Stony Brook now playing in Omaha in the College World Series, his stock continues to rise.  

However, a guy to look at IMO would be his long time right hand man, and current Athletic Director at Central Conn. State University, Paul Schlickmann.  He worked for 7 years under Fiore at SB and for a period of time was in charge of the daily operations of the department.  

Prior to that he was Asst. AD at Yale.  The SB website (sorry I'm bad at providing links) indicates that during his tenure at Yale he was in charge of football game day operations and coordinated a game day staff of 150 and that Yale games drew 23K on average under his watch.  I know that is one of the more mundane duties of the AD, but we've all lamented about the sorry game day experiences as RHG and JCF.  The experiences at a places like Yale and SB seem compatible to me with the challenges at Fordham.  In particular, the fact that he was so involved with the ascent of athletics at SB which 10 years ago was in the athletic Siberia is a huge plus IMHO.  I'd be concerned about bringing in an Asst. AD from a BCS/high major type of school because its so apples and oranges.  

[SIram]

Fiore has done the heavy lifting for quite some time.  The last thing we want to do is run and over-pay a guy who might not have that fire in his bellly to do it all over again. Its a Ruthian task and he could be exactly the wrong guy to hire and over-pay and see if he can do it all over again, with 10 years of age and wear on him, he might not be the right guy.  He is the best of the best in the area right now but also reaping the benefits of nearly a decade of hard work. We might need a Fiore from 10 years ago as opposed to a Fiore today.

   

You could be right but we don't know that he is ready to coast, he could also be ready to take on an even bigger challenge and have a hell  of a legacy when he retires, if he is interested I am sure he understands that a man of action is needed

[B2Bomber]

I understand the attraction that poster would have toward Fiore as our next AD, but I don't think there's any shot in the world that he'd come to Fordham.  His next stop is likely to be a high major / BCS type school, and with Stony Brook now playing in Omaha in the College World Series, his stock continues to rise.  

However, a guy to look at IMO would be his long time right hand man, and current Athletic Director at Central Conn. State University, Paul Schlickmann.  He worked for 7 years under Fiore at SB and for a period of time was in charge of the daily operations of the department.  

Prior to that he was Asst. AD at Yale.  The SB website (sorry I'm bad at providing links) indicates that during his tenure at Yale he was in charge of football game day operations and coordinated a game day staff of 150 and that Yale games drew 23K on average under his watch.  I know that is one of the more mundane duties of the AD, but we've all lamented about the sorry game day experiences as RHG and JCF.  The experiences at a places like Yale and SB seem compatible to me with the challenges at Fordham.  In particular, the fact that he was so involved with the ascent of athletics at SB which 10 years ago was in the athletic Siberia is a huge plus IMHO.  I'd be concerned about bringing in an Asst. AD from a BCS/high major type of school because its so apples and oranges.  

I hear Central Conn State and I cringe.....memories of Gray and our last football coach.    Dont go there.   Yale doesnt get me excited either.   Yes, I see the game day stuff...we need that.    No question.  But we also need a massive restructuring and rebuilding of our entire Athletic Dept (assuming the recent coaching hires are here to stay.)    So I dunno.   

I agree Fiore may be looking up the ladder, not down the ladder.   Don't know him from Adam and what he is thinking about "his next challenge."  I assume he wont stay at Stony Brook  for much longer.   

We need a professional consultant.   Badly.  But we have Gray and the college CFO doing this...and that is the blind leading the blind in a square dance.    Which is why I am so pessimistic we get this right.   

Fr. McShane has his good points, his skillset and his good intentions.  But he has glaring omissions and errors. He doesnt get Athletics, he doesnt care about Athletics and he delegates everything he can to underlings and then hides under his desk and hopes for the best.   

[ace93]

Ram I Am, I think Paul Schlickmann is an excellent suggestion, not that I had really heard of him before your mention.  I think that is part of the reason why Fiore's name gets thrown around so much, he's local, has done well and therefore many here know of him.  The truth of the matter is that people here, myself included, can rattle out coaches names for many sports, but when it comes to AD's we just don't know their names.  I don't think I can name you more than 3 or 4 AD's and the ones I can would never be candidates for our job.

[Ram I Am]

I hear Central Conn State and I cringe.....memories of Gray and our last football coach.    Dont go there.   Yale doesnt get me excited either.   Yes, I see the game day stuff...we need that.    No question.  But we also need a massive restructuring and rebuilding of our entire Athletic Dept (assuming the recent coaching hires are here to stay.)    So I dunno.   

I agree Fiore may be looking up the ladder, not down the ladder.   Don't know him from Adam and what he is thinking about "his next challenge."  I assume he wont stay at Stony Brook  for much longer.   

We need a professional consultant.   Badly.  But we have Gray and the college CFO doing this...and that is the blind leading the blind in a square dance.    Which is why I am so pessimistic we get this right.   

Fr. McShane has his good points, his skillset and his good intentions.  But he has glaring omissions and errors. He doesnt get Athletics, he doesnt care about Athletics and he delegates everything he can to underlings and then hides under his desk and hopes for the best.   

You kind of make my point, Bomber.  Schlickmann and Fiore worked together in a massivie rebuilding project at Stony Brook. That's exactly what we want - someone who has successfully been involved in that kind of turnaround.  I think that experience is far more valuable and salient to Fordham than someone who has been an Asst. AD at a BCS level school.  I think Schlickmann's experience with Yale football would be helpful at Fordham, although we can agree to disagree on that.  

I agree that a professional search firm should be enlisted in this process, and removing Gray from the reporting structure is key - but I'm not holding my breath.

[B2Bomber]

You kind of make my point, Bomber.  Schlickmann and Fiore worked together in a massivie rebuilding project at Stony Brook. That's exactly what we want - someone who has successfully been involved in that kind of turnaround.  I think that experience is far more valuable and salient to Fordham than someone who has been an Asst. AD at a BCS level school.  I think Schlickmann's experience with Yale football would be helpful at Fordham, although we can agree to disagree on that.  

I agree that a professional search firm should be enlisted in this process, and removing Gray from the reporting structure is key - but I'm not holding my breath.

\

Okay...I see your valid points.    No argument there...and yes, maybe it works.  And maybe even Fiore recommends Schlickman.   I just hear Central Conn State and get shivers....bad ones.    I have such contempt for Gray.   

I want (and we all want) what is best for Fordham long term.    While I am certain we won't bag someone of Ron Wellman's expertise, that model is out there for all to ponder and aim towards.....he came from relative obscurity, replacing a long standing but burned out AD who bled Old Gold and Black at Wake....and when Wellman was hired everyone was upset....but he quickly showed his meddle and Wake has been transformed.   There are no more comments about Wake leaving the ACC (well....the recent NCAA Div I moves will bring out the boo birds again...because of Wake's size...but NOT because they aren't competitive in many sports (NCAA soccer champs, NCAA field hockey champs, NCAA golf champs, NCAA World Series in baseball, several players in the NFL and NBA and Major League Baseball, facilities that are truly amazing....including a four star restaurant inside the new football stadium with sky boxes that are top drawer...all for a school of 4,000 students.   How? They raised PRIVATE money.  ZERO money from the state.  NONE. ZIP.  ZILCH.   Fordham has far more numerous wealthy alumni than Wake does.   You get the picture.   

 

[ace93]

I just hear Central Conn State and get shivers....bad ones.    I have such contempt for Gray.   

I fail to see the connection.  Do all state universities in CT give you the same shivers?

[SIram]

I fail to see the connection.  Do all state universities in CT give you the same shivers?

I think Gray has a degree from that school

[T1L]

I think Gray has a degree from that school

He went to school at (and later worked at) Western Connecticut State.

[Ram I Am]

I think Gray has a degree from that school

I could be wrong but I think Gray's degree is from Southern Conn. State U. not Central Conn.

[ace93]

He went to school at (and later worked at) Western Connecticut State.

Bingo.  I guess I could have stated that in my reply to B2B, but for some reason chose not to.   I did provide a hint though. 

From the media guide:
Gray received a bachelor of arts in psychology from the State University of New York at Plattsburgh, a master of science in counseling and guidance from Syracuse University and a master of science in administration from Western Connecticut State University. He was director of counseling and guidance for the McGraw Central School System from September 1981 to August 1984, Assistant to the Director of Housing at Western Connecticut State University from September 1984 to December 1987 and the Assistant Director of Residential Life at Montclair State College in New Jersey from 1987 until September 1989.

(He began at Fordham as the Assistant Dean of Students for Residential Life in September 1989)

[Ram I Am]

He went to school at (and later worked at) Western Connecticut State.

My bad, you're right T1L.  Gray has a degree from W. Conn. St. and later worked there.  But to Bomber's point, Gray has no connection to CCSU that I'm aware of, however.

[ace93]

My bad, you're right T1L.  Gray has a degree from W. Conn. St. and later worked there.  But to Bomber's point, Gray has no connection to CCSU that I'm aware of, however.

None that I am aware of either and even if he did it would be silly to dismiss someone as a viable candidate simply b/c we have an administrator from the same university.  No overlap at all between the two and CCSU is very different now than it was back then.

His bio here: http://www.goseawolves.org/genrel/040910aaa.html

Ram I Am, how long have you known Schlickmann or of him?

[T1L]

None that I am aware of either and even if he did it would be silly to dismiss someone as a viable candidate simply b/c we have an administrator from the same university.  No overlap at all between the two and CCSU is very different now than it was back then.

Agreed 1000%, it makes no sense.

[Ram I Am]

None that I am aware of either and even if he did it would be silly to dismiss someone as a viable candidate simply b/c we have an administrator from the same university.  No overlap at all between the two and CCSU is very different now than it was back then.

His bio here: http://www.goseawolves.org/genrel/040910aaa.html

Ram I Am, how long have you known Schlickmann or of him?

I don't know him, but I do know some people who do -  and they speak very highly of him.  I wasn't aware of his Yale connection until I saw it on the SB website.  I think that Yale experience would be very applicable to Fordham football.  And his overall experience at SB is similar to the massive reclamaation project that would be needed at Rose Hill.  Who knows whether he'd have interest, but my main point is that experience like his is what I think we should be looking.  I can understand the desire to make a big splash by hiring a BCS Assistant AD, but I think the Fordham job is so different that a big school experience won't translate.  Just MHO. 

[An Old Coach]

My bad, you're right T1L.  Gray has a degree from W. Conn. St. and later worked there.  But to Bomber's point, Gray has no connection to CCSU that I'm aware of, however.

The dates that he was at Western Conn State might be off a little.  I knew Gray back when I was coaching there.  He was a little full of himself but not a bad guy.  We had to deal with him every summer when getting ready for football camp.  CCSU and WCSU are two seperate colleges.  CCSU has always had a pretty decent athletic program.

[An Old Coach]

I hear Central Conn State and I cringe.....memories of Gray and our last football coach.   

What would possible make you say that?  Our athletic director is a Fordham grad.  Do you have a similar reaction to Fordham grads?

[ace93]

I don't know him, but I do know some people who do -  and they speak very highly of him.  I wasn't aware of his Yale connection until I saw it on the SB website.  I think that Yale experience would be very applicable to Fordham football.  And his overall experience at SB is similar to the massive reclamaation project that would be needed at Rose Hill.  Who knows whether he'd have interest, but my main point is that experience like his is what I think we should be looking.  I can understand the desire to make a big splash by hiring a BCS Assistant AD, but I think the Fordham job is so different that a big school experience won't translate.  Just MHO. 

Thanks for the info.  I was hoping you knew him so we could gauge interest. I'm very curious as to who has been applying for the job. I'm still surprised and disappointed that we are not using a search firm.

Agreed on the job and big school experience not translating well. Not that funds are limitless at large programs, but they seem easier to come by. I could be wrong about that.

[Ram I Am]

Thanks for the info.  I was hoping you knew him so we could gauge interest. I'm very curious as to who has been applying for the job. I'm still surprised and disappointed that we are not using a search firm.

Agreed on the job and big school experience not translating well. Not that funds are limitless at large programs, but they seem easier to come by. I could be wrong about that.

I can't see the logic of us not using a search firm on this.  Has it been confirmed that we definitely are not using one?

[Rich93]

I can't see the logic of us not using a search firm on this.  Has it been confirmed that we definitely are not using one?

I am 90% sure that we are not using a search firm.  Maybe as time goes on the committee will realize that they need some help with this and hire one. 

[97Ram]

I can't see the logic of us not using a search firm on this.  Has it been confirmed that we definitely are not using one?

The logic of not using a search firm is that this is Fordham.  Nothing is done right when it comes to athletics and nothing makes sense.  If we're not using a search firm, it is a sign to me that Jeff Gray is still unfortunately going to be running the show.  He's an amateur and not using a search firm is an amateur move.  The only thing Gray knows about running an athletic program is what he's learned from Frank, and that's how to run a program into the ground.  His background is in residential life.   I would venture to guess that not one of our peer schools has someone with no background in athletics and/or marketing overseeing their athletic programs.  It's time for Gray to take a back seat when it comes to athletics.  I'm not suggesting he should be fired -- just let him run residential life, the Ram Vans and whatever else he's in charge of.  Until that happens, Fordham will continue to waste its money in athletics and frustrate its students and alums with more mismanagement and losses.  Sorry to go on a rant, but all of this discussion is worthless unless Gray is taken out of the picture.  

BTW, I think Fiore would be a great hire, but I just don't think he comes here unless Gray is out of the picture and he gets full control.  We would probably have to also offer him a huge salary.  He makes about $230K at Stony Brook.  Not sure if anyone posted this, but here's his vision/strategy on fundraising.  The guy gets it.    

http://www.athleticmanagement.com/2012/02/28/breaking_new_ground/index.php