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Pecora


Poll
Question: Should he be brought back next year?
No.  I've seen enough, this is not working. - 46 (27.4%)
Maybe, let's let the A-10 season play out. - 25 (14.9%)
Yes, we have Paschall, Anderson and Suarez and team will be much better. - 72 (42.9%)
Yes, only due to the contract situation, we can't afford to eat it. - 15 (8.9%)
50-50 - 10 (6%)
I want to post about facilities no matter what the topic, or relevant discussion here. - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 167

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« on: January 10, 2014, 09:00:25 am »

Seems to be morphing into a topic in the topic graveyeard. Probably premature but what the heck.
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 09:05:42 am »

If he can get this turned around the rest of the season, I'd bring him back. If not, he should go. We're getting close to laughing stock  status again.  Just because new players are coming in, doesn't mean TP will coach better.  There is no evidence he will put them in a position to win.
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 09:10:05 am »

If he can get this turned around for the rest of the season, I'd bring him back.  If not, he should go.  We're getting close to laughing stock status again.  
Whutduya mean:  getting close to laughing stock status again ?   

LOL !  
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 09:18:45 am »

I think the entire A-10 season needs to play out. 
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 09:32:37 am »

Have to give him this year and next and then reevaluate.
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 10:21:26 am »

I think the entire A-10 season needs to play out. 

Indeed.  But my point on this narrow topic, so as to not be accused of going off topic in the Renewed World Order of Narrow interpretation of what is or isnt off topic......is:

That it matters not what his performance is.   Period.  Because the Jesuits and Gray will not fire him unless he commits a crime of moral turpitude and that wont happen ever.   He will fulfill his contract and they may even extend him.  Regardless of who leaves, who stays, who he recruits, who we beat or who we lose to or how much.    Pecora will remain.     

They may go 0fer in the A10 this year.   I smell it brewing in the kitchen.    Not saying its gonna happen.  Just saying I see the signs and its not good.   

And Pecora remains.       Shocked
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 01:27:18 pm »

I might be soft but no decisions should be made until after next year. This is based solely on the situation he came into.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 01:58:22 pm »

I voted to bring TP back next year, mainly because short of a disastrous conference performance, I doubt very much he will get canned.  He should be on a very short leash, though. If we go through more of the same again next year, policy up that resume.
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 02:04:34 pm »

I might be soft but no decisions should be made until after next year. This is based solely on the situation he came into.

I agree (not in regard to your mental state, which I hope is what you were referring to . . .).  I wouldn't want him going into next year feeling that he didn't understand the expectations, but I would like to see what the results are with Severe as a Soph, Suarez, Paschall, and Anderson.  Part of that includes the trepidation that if he goes, they do too and that wouldn't be good.
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 02:05:38 pm »

I would be afraid to jeopardize Paschall coming here next year.  The existing contract is also a concern so I would let this play out through next season.
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 02:21:34 pm »

I agree (not in regard to your mental state, which I hope is what you were referring to . . .).  I wouldn't want him going into next year feeling that he didn't understand the expectations, but I would like to see what the results are with Severe as a Soph, Suarez, Paschall, and Anderson.  Part of that includes the trepidation that if he goes, they do too and that wouldn't be good.

I think this is a slippery slope to go down. What happens if Paschall/Suarez/Anderson aren't the saviors of the program, we have another disappointing season, but we have a Severe/Paschall type recruit signed to come in for 2015? Do we say "let's see how he does once 2015 Recruit X" gets here"? When does it stop?

I want to see Paschall here (and Severe stay) as much as the next guy, but we can't be held hostage- the program has to be bigger than that. If it's determined that TP isn't cut out for the job, make the move sooner rather than later and start the process to get better.

We had holes going into the season, and the Suarez/Anderson/Canty issues didn't help, but we have 3 legitimate A10 players, and 3-4 guys who have been inconsistent but shown flashes of being at least positive contributors- there is no reason we should be getting embarrassed on the floor. TP may be good on the recruiting trail and with the media, but his teaching and game coaching leave a lot to be desired. If he's going to keep relying on the strategy of rolling the ball out there and hoping for the best, then it's going to take a roster full of Paschall's and Severe's, not just 2-3 of them, because we'll need to be so much more talented than our peers to make up for the lack of coaching and fundamental skills. TP may be a good recruiter, but I don't think any one can do that.
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 02:29:12 pm »

I think this is a slippery slope to go down. What happens if Paschall/Suarez/Anderson aren't the saviors of the program, we have another disappointing season, but we have a Severe/Paschall type recruit signed to come in for 2015? Do we say "let's see how he does once 2015 Recruit X" gets here"? When does it stop?

I want to see Paschall here (and Severe stay) as much as the next guy, but we can't be held hostage- the program has to be bigger than that. If it's determined that TP isn't cut out for the job, make the move sooner rather than later and start the process to get better.

We had holes going into the season, and the Suarez/Anderson/Canty issues didn't help, but we have 3 legitimate A10 players, and 3-4 guys who have been inconsistent but shown flashes of being at least positive contributors- there is no reason we should be getting embarrassed on the floor. TP may be good on the recruiting trail and with the media, but his teaching and game coaching leave a lot to be desired. If he's going to keep relying on the strategy of rolling the ball out there and hoping for the best, then it's going to take a roster full of Paschall's and Severe's, not just 2-3 of them, because we'll need to be so much more talented than our peers to make up for the lack of coaching and fundamental skills. TP may be a good recruiter, but I don't think any one can do that.
tend to agree.

I'm growing more skeptical of Pecora's coaching ability and, IMHO, the rest of the year is key.  I think we need to look at two factors -- 1.  does the team improve as the year progresses?  He keeps saying that we have a young team.  OK.  Are the young players getting better?  2. Does the team stay with their coach.  If they show signs of quitting as the A-10 season progresses then it's time to cut him loose.  If they're quitting on him now, they're not likely to change their minds and give a better effort next year.
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 02:34:50 pm »

I agree it is a slipper slope, but I think that Paschall, Suarez and Anderson turn next year's class into what this year's class should have been.  The one mandate I would have is that Rhoomes, Leonard and Canty go to big-man camp.
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 02:41:22 pm »

I would be afraid to jeopardize Paschall coming here next year.  The existing contract is also a concern so I would let this play out through next season.
I agree. This is the hand we must live with.
Also, our star freshman is here because Pecora is here. We should not underestimate the ramifications of disrupting that relationship.
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 03:02:23 pm »

I do not get to see enough games to loudly call for his head. But from I read here daily it seems he is not the guy who is going to turn Fordham into a consistently winning program. Yea he will have two or three thoroughbreds on the team next year. But something always goes wrong with the roster and it is hard to imagine it coming to fruition.

Fordham basketball is somewhat like my home football team. They've both been in the wilderness for decades. You hate the current state of affairs, yet fear the next big change.
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 03:10:29 pm »

The discussion seems to be revolving around two options: "keep" or "fire". We are overlooking a third option: "fix".

There are a number of positives Pecora and his current staff have brought to the program: good public image, better media management, better program management, better conditioning, and, of late, relatively strong recruiting (considering the low station we occupy in NCAA Division I). Combined with Dave Roach taking over the AD position, the embarrassments of the Grank years (media guide coming out in mid-season, website photos of coach posing with two players who'd transferred out the year before, tickets to a game against "Binghampton", etc., etc.) are becoming a thing of the past.

The two big negatives are game coaching and scholarship management. These can likely be fixed. The game coaching fix is to get in an experienced Xs and Os guy as an assistant coach. There are a number available. Calipari, Pitino, Lavin -- all these coaches have an Xs and Os coach putting in offensive and defensive schemes. Pecora needs one of these guys, and has 677,000 reasons to get one. I can't speak to the current assistants, but certainly none has a reputation as an Xs and Os guy.  Parrotta's record as head coach at Canisius kinda tells me he isn't. Duke is mainly mentioned as a recruiter. I have no idea what Morton does, but typically Xs and Os guys come from the teaching side of the house, not the former player side.  Pecora can get an old experienced hand (there are several available), or he can find an up and comer, sort of like when Nick had Paul Hewitt.  

Scholarship management can be fixed, too. From what I hear of the Suarez situation, it sounds avoidable -- finishing 2 core courses after graduation when the NCAA allows only 1 in a given year. The kid was signed for Fordham prior to his graduation -- one of the coaches should have been on that, and foreseen the problem. The Fay situation does not seem good -- Fay the Elder is in his 3rd year on campus, and hasn't played but a few minutes, clearly not a contributor. Fay the Younger has, in his brief appearances, reminded me of other ex-Rams who wound up in D-II or D-III based on talent level. Looks like a case of a kid who was ahead of the curve his sophomore year of HS, then either stopped progressing, or regressed. Frankly, if you wanted to let the older kid stay another year and finish his degree, I'd have less problem with that than having 2 schollies filled with deadwood.

But before a pure "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" vote, we should consider whether the situation can be improved with a few modifications.
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2014, 03:19:04 pm »

I agree. This is the hand we must live with.
Also, our star freshman is here because Pecora is here. We should not underestimate the ramifications of disrupting that relationship.

 Is the goal of the program to have star players or be successful? Obviously a guy like Severe (and hopefully Paschall) helps us towards being successful, but if Pecora is ultimately going to be an impediment to success, then you have to make the tough decision to move on and let the chips fall where they may. Hire the right coach now and the hope is that he'll get the 2015/16 Jon Severe AND be able to turn us into a winner.
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2014, 03:19:30 pm »

I think this is a slippery slope to go down. What happens if Paschall/Suarez/Anderson aren't the saviors of the program, we have another disappointing season, but we have a Severe/Paschall type recruit signed to come in for 2015? Do we say "let's see how he does once 2015 Recruit X" gets here"? When does it stop?

I want to see Paschall here (and Severe stay) as much as the next guy, but we can't be held hostage- the program has to be bigger than that. If it's determined that TP isn't cut out for the job, make the move sooner rather than later and start the process to get better.

We had holes going into the season, and the Suarez/Anderson/Canty issues didn't help, but we have 3 legitimate A10 players, and 3-4 guys who have been inconsistent but shown flashes of being at least positive contributors- there is no reason we should be getting embarrassed on the floor. TP may be good on the recruiting trail and with the media, but his teaching and game coaching leave a lot to be desired. If he's going to keep relying on the strategy of rolling the ball out there and hoping for the best, then it's going to take a roster full of Paschall's and Severe's, not just 2-3 of them, because we'll need to be so much more talented than our peers to make up for the lack of coaching and fundamental skills. TP may be a good recruiter, but I don't think any one can do that.

I do not disagree but I think the alternative is worse.  Get rid of TP at the end of this season, and you run a good risk of losing Severe, Paschall and entering into another rebuilding loop.  I'd be more likely to tell TP he's got next year, tell him to acknowledge his weaknesses as well as his strengths (i.e. beef up the coaching staff with a top level asst. with game coaching smarts) and see what this group can do.  Basketball is about talent, as much as system and effort (not discounting the latter two).  I'd rather see what happens in that scenario than suffer through yet another development process.
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 03:22:34 pm »

I'd keep TP an his recruits. "Encourage" him to hire an experienced X's and O's guy.
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 03:38:26 pm »

I'd keep TP an his recruits. "Encourage" him to hire an experienced X's and O's guy.

What if he doesn't listen to reason?
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 03:49:54 pm »

What if he doesn't listen to reason?

That's why Dave Roach is "getting paid the big bucks" as they say . . .
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2014, 04:11:23 pm »

I do not disagree but I think the alternative is worse.  Get rid of TP at the end of this season, and you run a good risk of losing Severe, Paschall and entering into another rebuilding loop.  I'd be more likely to tell TP he's got next year, tell him to acknowledge his weaknesses as well as his strengths (i.e. beef up the coaching staff with a top level asst. with game coaching smarts) and see what this group can do.  Basketball is about talent, as much as system and effort (not discounting the latter two).  I'd rather see what happens in that scenario than suffer through yet another development process.

OK, but if TP isn't the answer, we're going to have another development process, might as well start the recovery sooner. Agreed about talent being ultimately what matters, but if the coaching and teaching is as subpar as it appears to be, then next year's additions are not likely to yield average or better results even if we'll arguably have average or better talent. Would you be happy if we had 18 win talent but win 14 games? I'd say only if he was able to bring in 25 win talent but only win 21 games can you afford to write off his weaknesses and say "21 wins isn't so bad, no need to complain".

Alot of the talk has been about additions for next year, but one thing not mentioned much is that we're losing Frazier. Reminds me of last winter/spring when losing Gaston seemed to be an afterthought in discussions here. This year we've struggled partly because our roster was poorly constructed- if someone doesn't emerge as a PG replacement next year, we might have that same problem just at a different position.
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 04:16:17 pm »

Bottom line, in my opinion, is that if we can't win with the talent we'd have next year then clearly talent is not the issue.  I think there could be some doubts as to why we are losing this season, next year would really help provide an answer one way or the other.  It is not often we have had two impact recruits in back-to-back years since joining the A10.  The only other time I can remember did not work out so well.
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2014, 04:37:28 pm »

OK, but if TP isn't the answer, we're going to have another development process, might as well start the recovery sooner. Agreed about talent being ultimately what matters, but if the coaching and teaching is as subpar as it appears to be, then next year's additions are not likely to yield average or better results even if we'll arguably have average or better talent. Would you be happy if we had 18 win talent but win 14 games? I'd say only if he was able to bring in 25 win talent but only win 21 games can you afford to write off his weaknesses and say "21 wins isn't so bad, no need to complain".

Alot of the talk has been about additions for next year, but one thing not mentioned much is that we're losing Frazier. Reminds me of last winter/spring when losing Gaston seemed to be an afterthought in discussions here. This year we've struggled partly because our roster was poorly constructed- if someone doesn't emerge as a PG replacement next year, we might have that same problem just at a different position.

Again, I agree with a lot of what you say. And a lot depends on the way the rest of the year rolls out (and by the way, 14 wins sounds pretty damn good right about now).  I'd just rather be willing to roll the dice on keeping TP through next year than roll the dice on getting rid of him, because I think the possible upside (winning with more talent) is better than the possible downside (losing the talent we have or have committed and face an implosion).

Losing Frazier is a different story, and you're right, we need a point guard.  Haven't seen Anderson play so I don't know if he does/can fit the bill.  But a quality, or at least serviceable, big man is more of a need. Which is another aspect to the Pecora story and our recruiting: what about transfers?  GW has five international players; a couple of them looked pretty damn good.
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2014, 04:51:44 pm »

T1L, I hear where you are coming from, but I am hesitant right now b/c I think it would send a bad message about our program.  I think Pecora is proving that you can recruit some very good players to FU, even if one could argue that it is just Severe and Paschall that he has been able to ink.  To me, that has helped the reputation of the program a ton.  It tells any future coach, if we get to that point, that it is not impossible to get talent to commit here.  If we were to ride him off at the end of the season, I think it sends the message that we are not willing to give the coach a chance to work with his top recruits.  One year of Severe, zero years of Pascall, that is not going to look good to potential hires.

Let's not forget that a guy like Steve Masiello wanted nothing to do with our program when the job was available.  I think most coaches out there will be hesitant to take this job if they know it has to be turned around in 4 years.
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2014, 05:04:56 pm »

The discussion seems to be revolving around two options: "keep" or "fire". We are overlooking a third option: "fix".

There are a number of positives Pecora and his current staff have brought to the program: good public image, better media management, better program management, better conditioning, and, of late, relatively strong recruiting (considering the low station we occupy in NCAA Division I). Combined with Dave Roach taking over the AD position, the embarrassments of the Grank years (media guide coming out in mid-season, website photos of coach posing with two players who'd transferred out the year before, tickets to a game against "Binghampton", etc., etc.) are becoming a thing of the past.

The two big negatives are game coaching and scholarship management. These can likely be fixed. The game coaching fix is to get in an experienced Xs and Os guy as an assistant coach. There are a number available. Calipari, Pitino, Lavin -- all these coaches have an Xs and Os coach putting in offensive and defensive schemes. Pecora needs one of these guys, and has 677,000 reasons to get one. I can't speak to the current assistants, but certainly none has a reputation as an Xs and Os guy.  Parrotta's record as head coach at Canisius kinda tells me he isn't. Duke is mainly mentioned as a recruiter. I have no idea what Morton does, but typically Xs and Os guys come from the teaching side of the house, not the former player side.  Pecora can get an old experienced hand (there are several available), or he can find an up and comer, sort of like when Nick had Paul Hewitt.  

Scholarship management can be fixed, too. From what I hear of the Suarez situation, it sounds avoidable -- finishing 2 core courses after graduation when the NCAA allows only 1 in a given year. The kid was signed for Fordham prior to his graduation -- one of the coaches should have been on that, and foreseen the problem. The Fay situation does not seem good -- Fay the Elder is in his 3rd year on campus, and hasn't played but a few minutes, clearly not a contributor. Fay the Younger has, in his brief appearances, reminded me of other ex-Rams who wound up in D-II or D-III based on talent level. Looks like a case of a kid who was ahead of the curve his sophomore year of HS, then either stopped progressing, or regressed. Frankly, if you wanted to let the older kid stay another year and finish his degree, I'd have less problem with that than having 2 schollies filled with deadwood.

But before a pure "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" vote, we should consider whether the situation can be improved with a few modifications.
Totally agree with John, but, as always, couldn't nearly say it as well as he did.
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2014, 05:12:24 pm »

As much as I think that Tom Pecora leaves a lot to be desired in his coaching philosophy and ability, I don't see how we don't give him next year when theoretically, he will have the caliber of players recruited which were expected when he was hired.  Cutting him short now would leave all sorts of questions and second guesses.  As Ace says, we have to give him the chance to succeed when he finally has this top talent he has recruited so that there will be no more excuses for him.  If he still is unsuccessful next year then it is not the talent but the coach and his coaching staff.  5 years will, should be enough time to produce a winning program.
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2014, 05:17:58 pm »

If we got 3 A-10 wins this year (my prediction based on performance this year to date), TP's record at Fordham would be 7-24; 10-19; 7-24; and 10-19. That's 34-86.

Maybe he'd start next year with Paschall, Anderson and Suarez, but he'd also be on the hot seat.

And I would see nothing wrong with the AD implying or stating that at the start of the season.

It seems to me necessary to instill a sense of urgency into coach and team.  Not that I want some Masiello/Hurley "sweat act" out there, but Pecora's laid-back, Perry Como "Mr. Relaxation" style of coaching is rubbing off on his players. He's best when he's up and active and not too laid back, such as at this year's Manhattan game.
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2014, 05:26:12 pm »

Perry Como  Cheesy. Very Good!  Much better than Captain Schettino.
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2014, 05:38:10 pm »

Show up and MAKE SOME NOISE!!!
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